Intertap beer faucets

[lump42]

Confused. Are we saying there are real Intertaps and cheap knock-off Intertaps or are all Intertaps knock-offs? I'm assuming not all Intertaps are knock-offs since they're being sold on the Keg King site referenced above.

https://www.keg-king.com.au/intertap-ss-tap-only-stainless-steel.html

I have a bunch of the Intertap G2 faucets and have been very happy with them. They've been reliable and maintenance free.

Also curious if the UltraTap spouts are compatible with the Intertaps spouts or are they completely different thread and size?

Thanks for helping clear up my confusion. I am building a portable keg cooler and will be purchasing additional faucets in the near future.

~HopSing.

I was just wondering the same thing...

 

[gromitdj]

From what I understand, the spouts are not interchangeable between the Intertap and the Ultratap. However the Ultratap spouts are interchangeable with the Ventmatic spouts.

This is all a fallout over the KegKing vs. KegLand legal war down under...

I would venture to guess that if you purchased your Intertap's from Williams or another stateside distributor, you got original Intertap's. If you purchased them from Aliexpress, you likely got knockoff's or quality reproductions. However you want to look at it.

 

[CEO Keg King]

I'm actually quite familiar with much of the history of Brad Amidzich's original sliding shuttle Vent Matic design that inspired the Perlick 425 (later withdrawn due to legal issues) and now Intertap (and maybe others?) as well as the checkered production and legal history. Safe to say there are likely as many fans as haters. There's almost enough there for a short novel

Cheers!

Thought I replied to this but must have been day dreaming. Yes there is enough for a short novel and by the time you add the Australian connection now a not such short one. I will write something about this in the future but it will not be a novel. Anyway we are proud that we can offer a good quality stainless tap at a good price and we hope that its takeup will improve in the US soon. Feel free to message me if you have interest.

 

[imasickboy]

Thought I replied to this but must have been day dreaming. Yes there is enough for a short novel and by the time you add the Australian connection now a not such short one. I will write something about this in the future but it will not be a novel. Anyway we are proud that we can offer a good quality stainless tap at a good price and we hope that its takeup will improve in the US soon. Feel free to message me if you have interest.

Did Williams ever stock the actual Keg King faucet? I have some from them when they were first offered, before they suddenly got pulled from the market. Were these Chinese knock offs, even then? If not, at what point did the knock offs replace the genuine ones?

Also, who is the current US supplier in California? Many homebrewers are not fans of Northern Brewer at this point in time. They would probably enjoy buying these faucets from someone different.

 

[gromitdj]

I think they were pulled due to the initial patent infringement and were a product of Keg King. I believe they were relisted after working out a licensing deal with Ventmatic. (purely conjecture on my part)

Also, Northern Brewer is no longer owned by AB-Inbev.

Edited to add link.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thought I replied to this but must have been day dreaming. Yes there is enough for a short novel and by the time you add the Australian connection now a not such short one. I will write something about this in the future but it will not be a novel. Anyway we are proud that we can offer a good quality stainless tap at a good price and we hope that its takeup will improve in the US soon. Feel free to message me if you have interest.

Not daydreaming. You had indeed already answered this before, 4 posts up and about 16 hours earlier:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/intertap-beer-faucets.567485/page-28#post-8751082

Sometimes you need to refresh the page to see updates. Especially if you browsed back in the history, showing browser cached content that tends to be outdated. Although that can actually be helpful at times.

 

[CEO Keg King]

Did Williams ever stock the actual Keg King faucet? I have some from them when they were first offered, before they suddenly got pulled from the market. Were these Chinese knock offs, even then? If not, at what point did the knock offs replace the genuine ones?

Also, who is the current US supplier in California? Many homebrewers are not fans of Northern Brewer at this point in time. They would probably enjoy buying these faucets from someone different.

Williams were buying from AMCO in China and not from Keg King in Australia. Williams have not been purchasing from Keg King in Australia. The Beverage people in Santa Rosa should be able to assist you. Not sure what is going on at Northern Brewer since they were taken over.

Gabe Jackson

The Beverage People, Inc.

707-544-2520

www.thebeveragepeople.com

Hours: T-F 10:00 - 6:30, Sat 10:00 - 5:00, Sundays during Harvest 10:00 -

5:00

SONOMA COUNTY'S FERMENTATION HEADQUARTERS SINCE 1980

 

[CEO Keg King]

Not daydreaming. You had indeed already answered this before, 4 posts up and about 16 hours earlier:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/intertap-beer-faucets.567485/page-28#post-8751082

Sometimes you need to refresh the page to see updates. Especially if you browsed back in the history, showing browser cached content that tends to be outdated. Although that can actually be helpful at times.

Right that explains it. Once we get back from the annual vacation next Monday we are planning to become a sponsor on this site and also organise some giveaways (Ultrataps included). Our marketing man who hails from California is actually in the USA now and will co-ordinate this. We believe that we have good products and want to find a better way to make them available in the US. Our new PET Fermenters are really in demand elsewhere in the world and we think they will be welcomed once American home brewers see how well they work. Also our temperature control systems will do what brewers have need for a long time but without a fridge and at a reasonable cost. So we are looking for active businesses in the home and craft brew scene who are interested to offer our kit if you know of any.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thank you Will, for ringing in on the Intertap knock off issue, and also for making us aware of your new product, Ultratap. Many of us here on this forum have been fans of the original Vent Matic faucets. I have always liked the removeable spout on the Vent Matics, and later on the Intertaps, with switchable spouts.

Just to be clear here they werent actually knockoffs (or fake products) , They were just sold from the manufacturer that made them for keg king without keg king getting royalties as far as Ive read they were grey market.

I dont mean to upset anyone here but to be honest, Ive bought a bunch of different "keg king" branded products off of aliexpress over the years that comes in keg king retail packaging as much of the stuff keg king brands and sells seems to be just rebranded chinese generic stuff like my blichmann clone bottle filler. I honestly dont know how involved they are or arent in the engineering design phase and I imagine this varies with products. Even the keg king branded malt munchier mills are also sold as generic and other other brand names such as kegco and cereal killer. and northern brewers new branded mill... all from the same supplier and all arguably "Knockoffs" of monster mills designs. Mash an boils and robobrews fall into a similar category with many sellers on alibaba.

I have flow control stainless intertaps I bought for $25 each shipped in retail keg king packaging from aliexpress before someone on this site got the seller banned from selling to the US a few days later. They sold for $50+ each from even williams back then.

I also bought generic perlick style "knock offs" from aliexpress which really were knock offs only with the interchangeable intertap style spouts (perlick sold and discontinued these before intertap). Ive been using them at my brewpub for almost a year now with good success. but they are the perlick oring style internals. Ironically the machining is better on some than my real perlicks

It seems this is a lot like the northface "scandel" years back when the chinese makers of northface products started selling grey market to other vendors the still branded northface products for a fraction of the crazy prices they normally were sold at. only Northface was already being heavily marketed in america through legit dealers at the time unlike these.. Grey market and white market products are a real problem when you dont actually manufacture your own products.

 

[CEO Keg King]

Just to be clear here they werent actually knockoffs (or fake products) , They were just sold from the manufacturer that made them for keg king without keg king getting royalties as far as Ive read they were grey market.

I dont mean to upset anyone here but to be honest, Ive bought a bunch of different "keg king" branded products off of aliexpress over the years that comes in keg king retail packaging as much of the stuff keg king brands and sells seems to be just rebranded chinese generic stuff like my blichmann clone bottle filler. I honestly dont know how involved they are or arent in the engineering design phase and I imagine this varies with products. Even the keg king branded malt munchier mills are also sold as generic and other other brand names such as kegco and cereal killer. and northern brewers new branded mill... all from the same supplier. Mash an boils and robobrews fall into a similar category with many sellers on alibaba.

I have flow control stainless intertaps I bought for $25 each shipped in retail keg king packaging from aliexpress before someone on this site got the seller banned from selling to the US a few days later. They sold for $50+ each from even williams back then.

I also bought generic perlick style "knock offs" from aliexpress which really were knock offs only with the interchangeable intertap style spouts (perlick sold and discontinued these before intertap). Ive been using them at my brewpub for almost a year now with good success. but they are the perlick oring style internals. Ironically the machining is better on some than my real perlicks

It seems this is a lot like the northface "scandel" years back when the chinese makers of northface products started selling grey market to other vendors the still branded northface products for a fraction of the crazy prices they normally were sold at. only Northface was already being heavily marketed in america through legit dealers at the time unlike these.. Grey market and white market products are a real problem when you dont actually make your own products. remeber the "fake" apple stores in china?

Well you may have got product out of Chinese suppliers who used to be Keg King suppliers and these were sold by AMCO from Hong Kong (we have the orders and invoices to prove this). They had nothing to do with the real Keg King in Australia. Our name was used for this and I believe this was wrong. Keg King has never received or asked for royalties as we sell our products and have not licensed anyone to do this. It is wrong that a Chinese company was able to register our name in China and that an ex-employee of ours registered the Keg King name in the US and had it paid for by Keg King whilst in our employ. I think any decent person would understand that. So unless you bought stuff from Northern Brewer it has no right to be associated with the real and original Keg King from Australia. Frankly its disgusting that we get requests for help from people in the US who are unhappy with the people who they bought from thinking it was product sold by Keg King from Australia when it was not.

So whilst product might have come from the same factories that we used it was never supposed to be sold by AMCO and Keg King has no reason to stand behind it like it does its own products no matter where they are made. Time people knew about all this. Just visit the www.kegking.com.cn site and you can see the associations.

 

[augiedoggy]

Oh I understand what your saying And I see your point but the truth is its is a common issue when you contract chinese suppliers to make things in your name. It looks like youhave a situation were that employee did something he should legally be accountable for in this case but im kinda shocked it was allowed to go on for a couple years without anyone else at the company catching on? I mean anyone who worked for kegking would have noticed these websites such as Williams selling these pretty early on right? I mean how can kegland legally even operate now selling your products and using your name? even the website is keg king and not keg land? it seems like there was some sort of legal split in the company for this to be allowed? it just seems really odd that a random employee could do all this and get away with it is all.

I once bought an upconverting dvd player that was sold directly by the manufacturer without the company whos branding was on the boxes involvement... I didnt know it at the time and jumped on it because was only $120 vs $350 which they previously sold for... The company actually discontinued the model product and sued the supplier over it and theres was quite a thread over at AVS forum about it not much unlike this one. They all had a major issue with the power supply capacitors failing and apparently the company whos brand was on it got out of honering the warranty on all of them because they couldnt effectively distinguish the real ones from the ones sold direct from the supplier because they gave too much control to the supplier as far as documentation and packaging right down to serial numbers and distributors.

 

[day_trippr]

So, from all of that, my take-away is "it's the exact same product from the same manufacturer". I understand there are clear business issues involved but I don't see any disassociation from whatever qualities are in the product. Whether sold through one channel or another, it's the same faucet, apparently...

Cheers!

 

[CEO Keg King]

Oh I understand what your saying And I see your point but the truth is its is a common issue when you contract chinese suppliers to make things in your name. It looks like youhave a situation were that employee did something he should legally be accountable for in this case but im kinda shocked it was allowed to go on for a couple years without anyone else at the company catching on? I mean anyone who worked for kegking would have noticed these websites such as Williams selling these pretty early on right? I mean how can kegland legally even operate now selling your products and using your name? even the website is keg king and not keg land? it seems like there was some sort of legal split in the company for this to be allowed? it just seems really odd that a random employee could do all this and get away with it is all.

I once bought an upconverting dvd player that was sold directly by the manufacturer without the company whos branding was on the boxes involvement... I didnt know it at the time and jumped on it because was only $120 vs $350 which they previously sold for... The company actually discontinued the model product and sued the supplier over it and theres was quite a thread over at AVS forum about it not much unlike this one. They all had a major issue with the power supply capacitors failing and apparently the company whos brand was on it got out of honering the warranty on all of them because they couldnt effectively distinguish the real ones from the ones sold direct from the supplier because they gave too much control to the supplier as far as documentation and packaging right down to serial numbers and distributors.

Keg King management at that time was not aware because two senior employees were in control of sales and procurement. It was only after a legal firm was called in to look at irregularities that it became obvious that Keg King products were being sold to the US out of a distribution centre in Shanghai. The Kegland name was registered by one of these people whilst still in the employ of Keg King. Kegland burst on to the scene after these people were removed from the business and is the subject of legal action from Keg King. Sadly it takes time fore this to go through the legal system but a judgement was obtained against Kegland in Australia last year forcing them to trial this year. However the court has no jurisdiction over what was done overseas in particular China. There was no legal split. The businesses in the US selling Keg King products were made aware of all this.

We cannot control what happened in China as the rules there are different. Our name and our logo was taken and registered by a Chinese person on behalf of a Chinese company that used to be a supplier to Keg King. It has caused us a lot of headaches and we even had to change our logo to avoid customs problems. Frankly it is a rather terrible situation when a business suddenly has to face that its trademarks, names and logos have been knocked off in another country. This was all done without the knowledge or consent of any kind by Keg King senior management. Happy to send you a copy of the supreme court judgement.

 

[gromitdj]

And here we arrive at the KegKing vs. KegLand battle that I eluded to. I'm sure KegLand has there own version of events.
And if you look hard enough, you'll find it...

My guess is that Williams and MoreBeer both carrying KegLand products is part of the reason they are not carrying the KegKing products. Since the EVABarrier tubing is not available at Northern Brewer, as it's a KegLand product. Nor is any other KegLand product as far as I know.

I'd be interested in the UltraFlo's once the interchangeable spouts are available (similar to the Intertap)

 

[augiedoggy]

Kegland has the advantage of operating in the country were all the products are actually made by suppliers that chose to sell to kegland apparently with out exclusion contracts (which often expire after a while anyway) so I could see this being a sticky situation. I know they dont enforce in trademarks there. Ive heard the stories of the Buick clones made in china without GMs permission and Ive seen the fake apple store reports on the news... and we all see what happens over and over very often when something is made there for one company.. Especially when supply and demand is allowing these to be sold at high markups, soon everyone is selling clones (or the real thing) for less (30a nema plug based tri clamp versions of the ripple element for example) In some ways It can be argued that its capitalism at even a purer form than found here in the states.

 

[CEO Keg King]

Kegland has the advantage of operating in the country were all the products are actually made by suppliers that chose to sell to kegland apparently with out exclusion contracts (which often expire after a while anyway) so I could see this being a sticky situation. I know they dont enforce in trademarks there. Ive heard the stories of the Buick clones made in china without GMs permission and Ive seen the fake apple store reports on the news... and we all see what happens over and over very often when something is made there for one company.. Especially when supply and demand is allowing these to be sold at high markups, soon everyone is selling clones (or the real thing) for less (30a nema plug based tri clamp versions of the ripple element for example) In some ways It can be argued that its capitalism at even a purer form than found here in the states.

We really don't want any involvement with anything Kegland. We just object to our name being used. If people want to buy stuff from unauthorised sources there is not much we can do. We just want people to know that even though it says Keg King on the box it is not our product if not bought from an authorised reseller.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]We just want people to know that even though it says Keg King on the box it is not our product if not bought from an authorised reseller.

I expect it's rather uncommon for folks to question a retailer as to whether they are "authorized" to sell a product.
Have you considered a corporate name change?

Cheers!

 

[CEO Keg King]

I expect it's rather uncommon for folks to question a retailer as to whether they are "authorized" to sell a product.
Have you considered a corporate name change?

Cheers!

That is pretty hard to do but we are renaming a lot of products. Like the Fermentasaurus became the Fermenter King etc.

Hopefully through sites like this and other avenues we can make people aware. Kegland in Australia tried to have our case dismissed but they failed in this last June and have been ordered to stand trial in May this year.

 

[Dland]

This saga looks like a typical scenario; Company invents and markets product, decides to have product made in china to save money, product idea, design and even branding are stolen. It has happened countless times in almost every industry.

Maybe next time(if they get another chance or a new good idea) they will decide to make or have product made in country where intellectual property rights are enforceable.

 

[augiedoggy]

This saga looks like a typical scenario; Company invents and markets product, decides to have product made in china to save money, product idea, design and even branding are stolen. It has happened countless times in almost every industry.

Maybe next time(if they get another chance or a new good idea) they will decide to make or have product made in country where intellectual property rights are enforceable.

lol except in the case of these taps its not even clear as to who invented them... Remember ventmatic took legal action as owning the patents to the design and is now getting or got paid for these...(At least the ones sold here in the states as far as I know)

I think I liked it better when a company designed and made their own products in house... you know the kind of industry this country was built on in the first place.. If you wanted to do well you built a better mousetrap and sold them at competitive rates.

 

[skidmark]

I think I liked it better when a company designed and made their own products in house... you know the kind of industry this country was built on in the first place.. If you wanted to do well you built a better mousetrap and sold them at competitive rates.

Oh. You mean before MBAs?

 

[CEO Keg King]

This saga looks like a typical scenario; Company invents and markets product, decides to have product made in china to save money, product idea, design and even branding are stolen. It has happened countless times in almost every industry.

Maybe next time(if they get another chance or a new good idea) they will decide to make or have product made in country where intellectual property rights are enforceable.

Well China is getting a lot better and the demand from home brewers is always lower prices so whilst I like your thinking it would mean customers paying a lot more for their kit. Hard to have it both ways. Lets face it not a lot of what we use in everyday life is made in developed countries.

 

[Special Hops]

Well I’m confused....

I have a couple of intertap faucets I bought from Atlantic Brew Supply in Raleigh a year of or two ago. No idea if they are real or not. I would think so since I bought from large, established LBSH. But now I’m not so sure.

In any case they work great.

 

[Dland]

Well China is getting a lot better and the demand from home brewers is always lower prices so whilst I like your thinking it would mean customers paying a lot more for their kit. Hard to have it both ways. Lets face it not a lot of what we use in everyday life is made in developed countries.

Even if I were to accept your premise that most home brewers are only conscious of price, China is not the only "less developed" country with a manufacturing base. There are others with more contractual respect for property rights, Indonesia comes to mind, and they are not the only one.

My point was if it were me, I would not hand over my ideas, specifications and technology to a factory in a country with an overt and government encouraged policy of intellectual property theft.

 

[augiedoggy]

Well I’m confused....

I have a couple of intertap faucets I bought from Atlantic Brew Supply in Raleigh a year of or two ago. No idea if they are real or not. I would think so since I bought from large, established LBSH. But now I’m not so sure.

In any case they work great.

Like mentioned there are no "clones" They were all made in the same chinese factory except different people sold them under the same brand name and the main kegking in australia wasnt getting the proceds from the ones sold in the states. so they were legit products but not through legit middlemen whose name was used in marketing anyway.

Originally keg king australia had them made for australia and other countries ,not to be sold in the states... a couple employees apparently took it upon themselves to trademark the brand name in the US and start distributing them in the states and seller like Williams and atlantic as well as many others sold them here but supposedly this was not santioned by the real keg king company and they were not making any money off these sales and there fore should not have to support them as far as any warranty issues.. The people at kegking now went to a different manufacturer to make a new modified version of their taps and the old style are still being sold by Kegland if I have the story right...

 

[augiedoggy]

Even if I were to accept your premise that most home brewers are only conscious of price, China is not the only "less developed" country with a manufacturing base. There are others with more contractual respect for property rights, Indonesia comes to mind, and they are not the only one.

My point was if it were me, I would not hand over my ideas, specifications and technology to a factory in a country with an overt and government encouraged policy of intellectual property theft.

Yet sooo many do... because prices are cheapest for labor in china... those taps likely cost kegking about $5-10 a piece wholesale...

Same thing happened with the Tri clamp based ripple heating elements a couple years ago... Brewboss had them designed and made in china... brewboss and brewhardware sell them for $75 plus shipping each... I start seeing pictures of them on alibaba stating they start at $9 each depending on quantity ordered... I order 2 samples for $16 each plus shipping... report my finding here and am basically told im lying about what I paid and then later im told they are dangerous and inferior... fast forward and its now known 2 companies make these in china (Dernold and Yuling) and they can be bought all over including ebay and from members here that decided to import them in quantities and resell themselves for a proifit while still being less, without going through the original american company that originally came up with the idea to take the chinese camco element clones and mount them directly in drilled out 1.5 and 2"tri clamp cap with a 30 amp plug end attached... up until this point people were using screw in TC based adapters with cords attached to them which actually raised production cost.

Now if the element had not sold so well at such a markup we would likely not have seen the other sellers and brands popping up from china. at least not so quickly... look at the grainfather and all the copycats including the new chinese blichmann version... you can find most of those on alibaba too.


Hell I bought my whole 3bbl kettle system directly from the company stout uses to make them for literally about HALF the price including customs and shipping.... This tells me stouts markups are pretty good and explains why they continue to use that manufacturer despite them marketing and selling direct themselves in the same country. The big difference here is that company doesnt use stouts brand name..

 

[Dland]

Hell I bought my whole 3bbl kettle system directly from the company stout uses to make them for literally about HALF the price including customs and shipping.... This tells me stouts markups are pretty good and explains why they continue to use that manufacturer despite them marketing and selling direct themselves in the same country. The big difference here is that company doesnt use stouts brand name..

Nor did they likely develop the product or the design. They merely copy to the specs got from paying client, and the client paid, (one way or another) for the tooling up to make the product.

They just crank some out after or in between contract batches and sell tough their local channels at a fraction of price.

In some cases, there is less recourse if buyer has a problem, but seems to be working for you.....

 

[augiedoggy]

Nor did they likely develop the product or the design. They merely copy to the specs got from paying client, and the client paid, (one way or another) for the tooling up to make the product.

They just crank some out after or in between contract batches and sell tough their local channels at a fraction of price.

In some cases, there is less recourse if buyer has a problem, but seems to be working for you.....

Its possible.. or its possible its the other way around or a combination of both. But they sell direct at many places including sungoodmachinery.com and they make and sell much more brewing equipment that stout doesnt sell so.. (Also not all stouts stuff is made by them either). They are also a sponsor of the nano equipment section of the probrewer forum... Not your typical scenerio.. In fact Id venture to guess stout may have saw their products on alibaba as many distributors do because most of the stuff stout sells can be found on alibaba from different suppliers and are sold by different companies like affordable distilling for example some have miner design changes were were likely input from the original contracted company they are not supposed to use... This is the case for brewha and unibrau both using the same supplier for thier main conical kettle.

Not unlike the Malt munchier/kegco/ cerial killer/ northern brew/list goes on grain mills which you can order on alibaba with whatever laser etched branding and logo you want in the side with a bulk order.

If you think about it this is commonplace for autoparts and most dont have an issue buying an off brand from the same supplier that the same product from oem or other aftermarket store brands.. Sometimes the design is unique sometimes its not.

 

[CEO Keg King]

lol except in the case of these taps its not even clear as to who invented them... Remember ventmatic took legal action as owning the patents to the design and is now getting or got paid for these...(At least the ones sold here in the states as far as I know)

I think I liked it better when a company designed and made their own products in house... you know the kind of industry this country was built on in the first place.. If you wanted to do well you built a better mousetrap and sold them at competitive rates.

Brad Amidzich claims the invention of this type of forward sealing tap. We bought our rights from him.

 

[CEO Keg King]

Even if I were to accept your premise that most home brewers are only conscious of price, China is not the only "less developed" country with a manufacturing base. There are others with more contractual respect for property rights, Indonesia comes to mind, and they are not the only one.

My point was if it were me, I would not hand over my ideas, specifications and technology to a factory in a country with an overt and government encouraged policy of intellectual property theft.

Well I doubt that there is enough technology or expertise in Indonesia to make such a tap. Also it is a very difficult country to do business in. Have visited there a couple of times and came to the conclusion that there is no way we can do anything there. Vietnam on the other hand could have possibilities but they are not great on IP protection either.