Inkbird cooling won’t work

[ike8228]

308 with wifi

I’ve been reading posts about Inkbird failures. But mostly people are talking about the beer freezing. That isn’t my problem. For the second time (second unit) in six months, the unit won’t kick on the fridge to cool. The green light kicks on but the fridge doesn’t turn on. The first one lasted me a couple of years but went a couple long periods of time without using it as life got in the way of brewing. This one has been used decently over the last six months doing 5 or 6 batches (some doubles).

I bypassed the ink bird by plugging the fridge in directly and no issue there. The heating side still works. This is the second unit this same thing has happened to me. The first time just normal maintaining of 68ishF temp and this time during the cold crash. Woke up to my cold crash at 57F since the fridge hadn’t been turning on at all during the night. Good thing I was bottling this morning anyway and wanted it to warm up a bit to add priming.

Anyone else have this issue? Any fixes or recommendations? Other unit’s that heat and cool? I know these are cheap ish but I don’t want to spend 30-40 every 3-4 batches of beer. So I have two Inkbird that heat but not cool. I have a brand new one for a different application, but idk if I trust these things anymore.

Thoughts?

 

[ike8228]

@inkbird

 

[hotbeer]

I can't help but think that your settings are incorrect.

There might be a possibility that your fridge pulls more amperage starting up than your Inkbird can handle. But I don't know if they build in any protection for that. Likely that issue would just result in a fried Inkbird.

I use the Digiten controllers of the same basic price and probably same quality. The run values and limits can be easily mixed up when setting things.

 

[ike8228]

I can't help but think that your settings are incorrect.

There might be a possibility that your fridge pulls more amperage starting up than your Inkbird can handle. But I don't know if they build in any protection for that. Likely that issue would just result in a fried Inkbird.

I use the Digiten controllers of the same basic price and probably same quality. The run values and limits can be easily mixed up when setting things.

What settings? I’ve been using it with no issues on and off for months. Cools and heats no problem, then all of a sudden, no longer turns the fridge on. Or anything for that matter. I tried plugging a light in that socket and set the temp to try to ‘cool’ powering the light and no power. It’s like the switch or relay or whatever to the cooling cycle is damaged. I don’t know enough about these sorts of things to know exactly.

 

[hotbeer]

What settings? You didn't set anything on it? Then perhaps you should find out what they are set to currently.

If you never set anything then maybe they were once good enough for your use, but now are not or somehow were accidentally changed.

Your only other real option is that it's toast or the probe is bad. But you should be able to tell that by just putting the probe in different temp water of known temps and see what it reads.

The probe is about the only thing on it that you can do something about. And that is to replace it with a new probe.

 

[ike8228]

What settings? You didn't set anything on it? Then perhaps you should find out what they are set to currently.

If you never set anything then maybe they were once good enough for your use, but now are not or somehow were accidentally changed.

Your only other real option is that it's toast or the probe is bad. But you should be able to tell that by just putting the probe in different temp water of known temps and see what it reads.

The probe is about the only thing on it that you can do something about. And that is to replace it with a new probe.

Regular settings yes. I’m asking is there some other hidden setting. You mentioned amperage. As far as I can tell there are no fuses on the Inkbird? Is there something that can short or over heat. A resistor that pops for going on and off. That is what I am looking for. It is supposed to turn on and off…that’s the point, why would it not be designed to handle the load?

I’ve definitely set my limits, highs lows, alarms, cut off times, plus minus, etc. i didn’t change any of that after it was already working. It was cold crashing for 36 hours no problem, then just stopped turning the cooling on.

The probe is still registering a temp. When I bypassed the Inkbird to turn the fridge on it showed the temp dropping. Then unplugged the fridge and watched the temp rise. And it was close to a side thermometer in the fridge.

I just find it odd only the cooling stopped working, and that I haven’t yet seen someone else mention this specific problem. And it has happened twice to me. Common denominator is the fridge. The start up has too high a kick (amps) and eventually fries the Inkbird. I figured it it goes out it goes out, not only the one side.

@inkbird I am hopping can shed some technical light here.

 

[hotbeer]

t is supposed to turn on and off…that’s the point, why would it not be designed to handle the load?

It is designed to handle the load. However that is the load they specified. Not the load of what ever you wish to hook it too. Some appliances take more power than others.

The Digiten controllers were sold in 10 and 15 amp models when I bought mine. I'm pretty sure Inkbirds were offered the same also as the same company appears to make them both or did at one time. However the Inkbird website now just says the model handles 1100W which on 120volt systems means it's only made for not quite a 10 amp load.

Things with motors, as refrigerator compressors have sometimes will have a starting amperage listed for them that is higher than their running amperage. So every time that compressor kicks in the amperage of the Inkbird might be getting a momentary overload that simply wears it out over time.

Many normal size refrigerators are intended to be on a 15 amp circuit. They all might get by on a smaller circuit. Some refrigerators though need 20 amps. Usually I've found the outlets in the kitchen where 120 volt appliance might be plugged in were 20 amp circuits. Might be part of the electrical code in many jurisdictions. But I'm not an electrician or contractor.

Nothing in the Inkbird is intended to be user serviceable other than simply replacing the probe.

But still, you might have just messed up or changed a setting. I had to go back once and read the manual because I'd messed one up and forgot or mixed up exactly what some of the settings did.

I haven't looked closely, but Inkbird seems to be handled by Amazon now, not just the sellers on Amazon. Might just email them or write. Amazon, if nothing else has been pretty good with going over and above in customer support. Maybe they'll give you a new one. Won't know if you don't ask.

 

[Deadalus]

It is designed to handle the load. However that is the load they specified. Not the load of what ever you wish to hook it too. Some appliances take more power than others.

The Digiten controllers were sold in 10 and 15 amp models when I bought mine. I'm pretty sure Inkbirds were offered the same also as the same company appears to make them both or did at one time. However the Inkbird website now just says the model handles 1100W which on 120volt systems means it's only made for not quite a 10 amp load.

Things with motors, as refrigerator compressors have sometimes will have a starting amperage listed for them that is higher than their running amperage. So every time that compressor kicks in the amperage of the Inkbird might be getting a momentary overload that simply wears it out over time.

Many normal size refrigerators are intended to be on a 15 amp circuit. They all might get by on a smaller circuit. Some refrigerators though need 20 amps. Usually I've found the outlets in the kitchen where 120 volt appliance might be plugged in were 20 amp circuits. Might be part of the electrical code in many jurisdictions. But I'm not an electrician or contractor.

Nothing in the Inkbird is intended to be user serviceable other than simply replacing the probe.

But still, you might have just messed up or changed a setting. I had to go back once and read the manual because I'd messed one up and forgot or mixed up exactly what some of the settings did.

I haven't looked closely, but Inkbird seems to be handled by Amazon now, not just the sellers on Amazon. Might just email them or write. Amazon, if nothing else has been pretty good with going over and above in customer support. Maybe they'll give you a new one. Won't know if you don't ask.

NEC (several iterations now) is that you need two 20 amp GFCI circuits for the countertops in a kitchen. Fridge won't need a separate circuit unless it says so in the manufacturer manual. It can be plugged into one of those circuits. Some fridges can pull more than 10 amps when the compressor starts up as you've mentioned, and I too have seen 10 amp limited controllers. How big is the fridge @ike8228? There is a plate on the back that can tell you the running amps, startup is like 3X that I think in general. My dorm size fridges run at 1.1 and 1.7 amps.

I haven't personally had any trouble with mine and I have 5 of these. Two are on the smaller fridges and one is on my keezer. My keezer is a 7 cu ft freezer. The other two are for ales in the winter and seedling mats in the spring. I don't know the amperage on the freezer but the other 4 uses don't draw 10 amps.

 

[Bobby_M]

If the cooling green light is lit and not blinking, then the brain thinks it's sending voltage to the outlet. If you put a volt meter on the outlet, you will probably see that it's dead. If that's the case, the most likely problem is that the relay burned out. It would probably cost $3 to replace but would require soldering.

If the green light is blinking, it would indicate that the compressor delay setting is stopping it.

 

[tracer bullet]

If the cooling green light is lit and not blinking, then the brain thinks it's sending voltage to the outlet. If you put a volt meter on the outlet, you will probably see that it's dead.

I was going to suggest the same check.

There's a chance the frig itself is the thing that is "bad", something about its startup is killing the inkbirds perhaps?

 

[ike8228]

So the size and starting amperage (not running amps) is probably the problem. I will check the specs when I get home.

It is an indrustrial fridge like you see at a gas station with the glass door, and it is fairly big…so I’m guessing this is why.

May just be a thing that I buy a new one here and there (or Amazon replaces it) until I can get a different fridge. Like I said it works for awhile, then stops. I just don’t want to be in the middle of a fermentation and it dies and the fridge goes up to 85+F (it’s in the garage in SoCal)…

Does anyone know if there is something I can add before the Inkbird that reduces amp load? Like a buffer or ‘surge’ type protector (I have an actual surge protector connecting everything, but I mean for amp loads.

 

[tracer bullet]

They sell a high amperage controller but it's $'s.

I'd consider having the inkbird provide the turn-on signal to a relay, and that relay is what can handle the higher amperage.

I could take some guesses as to what you'd buy for that, but others are far better.

 

[hotbeer]

Does anyone know if there is something I can add before the Inkbird that reduces amp load? Like a buffer or ‘surge’ type protector (I have an actual surge protector connecting everything, but I mean for amp loads.

Well there isn't really anything to add before the inkbird.

As far as current or power, the refrigerator wants what the refrigerator wants. It'll be happy to let the Inkbird destroy itself in the process. If the inkbird is able to limit the power to save itself, then your refrigerator will eventually fail sooner than it should. If the Inkbird isn't able to restrict the power going through it then it'll fail at some point if it hasn't already.

Or in a worst case, your inkbird won't be able to pass all the current to the refrigerator because it's not electrically capable of passing that much current and it burns out as well as allows some damage to your fridge that might show up sooner or later.

A relay or solenoid which is a quite common thing to let lower power devices turn on higher power devices as @tracer bullet suggested probably are less expensive to put between your inkbird and refrigerator.

But I too don't really know what to recommend. Or even where to get them. Maybe Grainger or some electric or electronic supply place.


And still, it seems that you need to determine if the Inkbird is in fact damaged. Along with what the power requirements are for your refrigerator. Both running and starting amperage which sometimes they list wattages instead of amperages.

 

[Wayne1]

Disconnect the Inkbird from AC power. There is a small relay internally that will disengage if power draw is too much.

There also are two soldered in place fuses internally. If power does not come back on after power reset, you can pull the board apart from the case and check the continuity of the fuses, if you are familiar working with electronics.

 

[doug293cz]

Does anyone know if there is something I can add before the Inkbird that reduces amp load? Like a buffer or ‘surge’ type protector (I have an actual surge protector connecting everything, but I mean for amp loads.

I agree that the industrial fridge is probably burning out the cooling control relay in the InkBird. As @Bobby_M said, the green light only tells you that the InkBird is trying to turn on the cooling relay, not that the relay is actually working.

You could build a small adapter that has a higher current relay. The InkBird would power the relay coil (120V AC coil required) and the relay contacts would switch the power to the refrigerator. If you need help with designing a suitable adapter, I can help.

Brew on

 

[ike8228]

Looks like reasonably low amps?

 

[tracer bullet]

Edited - Never mind

 

[doug293cz]

View attachment 776550
Looks like reasonably low amps?

This is very telling. The steady state operating current is 11 A (unless there are separate cords for the lights and compressor), and I believe most InkBird 308 type controllers are rated at 10 A. But the real killer is the LRA of 29.0 A. The Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA) is the start up current required by the compressor motor. This is what is killing the cooling relays in the InkBirds.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

A relay box can easily be constructed using something like this: Contactor, 2 pole, 30/40 A, 120V Coil [CN-PBC302-120V] - $12.59 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

If you need really specific instructions on how to do it. Don't.

 

[ike8228]

A relay box can easily be constructed using something like this: Contactor, 2 pole, 30/40 A, 120V Coil [CN-PBC302-120V] - $12.59 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

If you need really specific instructions on how to do it. Don't.

Thanks I will look into it.

 

[ike8228]

This is very telling. The steady state operating current is 11 A (unless there are separate cords for the lights and compressor), and I believe most InkBird 308 type controllers are rated at 10 A. But the real killer is the LRA of 29.0 A. The Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA) is the start up current required by the compressor motor. This is what is killing the cooling relays in the InkBirds.

Brew on

For quick reference do you know of a controller, preferably dual, that can with stand higher amp loads? I am not opposed to spend more within reason if it solves my problem. A lot easier than finding and converting another fridge.

I am assuming since mine lasted for a bit because the load isn’t the full 29 most of the time. That is probably an engineering safety factor. If I put a meter on it I bet it draws closer to 18-20 than 29. Equipment I run at work generally draw 1/2 to 2/3 what the plate states on start up.

Looking through some Johnson’s and one is 16A. It maaay be good enough. But research continues.

Also saw this

https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-twostage-wired.html
It calls out a LRA, does that mean it can withstand that amount?

 

[inkbird]

Regular settings yes. I’m asking is there some other hidden setting. You mentioned amperage. As far as I can tell there are no fuses on the Inkbird? Is there something that can short or over heat. A resistor that pops for going on and off. That is what I am looking for. It is supposed to turn on and off…that’s the point, why would it not be designed to handle the load?

I’ve definitely set my limits, highs lows, alarms, cut off times, plus minus, etc. i didn’t change any of that after it was already working. It was cold crashing for 36 hours no problem, then just stopped turning the cooling on.

The probe is still registering a temp. When I bypassed the Inkbird to turn the fridge on it showed the temp dropping. Then unplugged the fridge and watched the temp rise. And it was close to a side thermometer in the fridge.

I just find it odd only the cooling stopped working, and that I haven’t yet seen someone else mention this specific problem. And it has happened twice to me. Common denominator is the fridge. The start up has too high a kick (amps) and eventually fries the Inkbird. I figured it it goes out it goes out, not only the one side.

@inkbird I am hopping can shed some technical light here.

Dear @ike8228, the Input Power of INKBIRD ITC-308: 100 ~240VAC, 50Hz/60Hz
Temperature Control Output: Max. 10A, 100V ~240V AC
Please make sure the cooler is within the rated range.

Please follow the instructions. This is a test mode, it can check if there is a problem with the cooling outlet.
1. Unplug the controller, plug cooling device.

2. Hold the SET button (don’ t loosen it till power up)

3. Connect the power supply to power it on, then release the Set button (within 2 seconds, otherwise it will enter normal mode)

4. Press the down button, Please do not press the up button. It will turn on the cooling outlet, cooling indicator light on, is the cooler turned on? (within 2 seconds, otherwise it will enter normal mode)

 

[Bobby_M]

Also saw this

https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-twostage-wired.html
It calls out a LRA, does that mean it can withstand that amount?

$180? I could build you an inkbird 308 WIFI with a high current relay box for less than that, if you care about the wifi capability.

 

[doug293cz]

For quick reference do you know of a controller, preferably dual, that can with stand higher amp loads? I am not opposed to spend more within reason if it solves my problem. A lot easier than finding and converting another fridge.

I am assuming since mine lasted for a bit because the load isn’t the full 29 most of the time. That is probably an engineering safety factor. If I put a meter on it I bet it draws closer to 18-20 than 29. Equipment I run at work generally draw 1/2 to 2/3 what the plate states on start up.

Looking through some Johnson’s and one is 16A. It maaay be good enough. But research continues.

Also saw this

https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-twostage-wired.html
It calls out a LRA, does that mean it can withstand that amount?

Yes the Ranco will handle the LRA of your refrigerator. It can be set to control cooling or heating, but not both at the same time (unlike the InkBird 308.) It is also an unnecessarily expensive solution to your problem.

Adding a relay to the output of the InkBird is probably the cheapest solution. @Bobby_M suggested using an Auber CN-PBC302-120V contactor, but that is only rated for 30 A inductive load, and your instantaneous startup current is 29 A. I'd use an Auber CN-PBC402-120V, which is rated for 40 A inductive load (it costs $2 more.)

Brew on

 

[ike8228]

$180? I could build you an inkbird 308 WIFI with a high current relay box for less than that, if you care about the wifi capability.

Ya crazy. And it looks tacky. I found another couple less expensive types that are 15A but have 30A relays. For $45 I figured I would try it. If the Inkbird did ok for awhile with the loads, perhaps the 15A will be enough…wishful thinking maybe.

bayite Temperature Controller 1650W 15A BTC211 Dual Digital Outlet Thermostat Plug, Pre-Wired, 2 Stage Heating and Cooling Mode, 110V - 240V, Fermentation BBQ Reptile Aquarium: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

 

[ike8228]

Yes the Ranco will handle the LRA of your refrigerator. It can be set to control cooling or heating, but not both at the same time (unlike the InkBird 308.) It is also an unnecessarily expensive solution to your problem.

Adding a relay to the output of the InkBird is probably the cheapest solution. @Bobby_M suggested using an Auber CN-PBC302-120V contactor, but that is only rated for 30 A inductive load, and your instantaneous startup current is 29 A. I'd use an Auber CN-PBC402-120V, which is rated for 40 A inductive load (it costs $2 more.)

Brew on

I am pretty sure this specific Ranco does both at the same time. It is two stage and wired with a heating and cooling plug. A little janky though.

Thanks. I searched it and have it tabbed for me to look at tomorrow. I found a wiring schematic how to use it as a switch. I don’t know a lot about electrical, so I’ll need to do some digging before I blow something up.

 

[doug293cz]

Ya crazy. And it looks tacky. I found another couple less expensive types that are 15A but have 30A relays. For $45 I figured I would try it. If the Inkbird did ok for awhile with the loads, perhaps the 15A will be enough…wishful thinking maybe.

bayite Temperature Controller 1650W 15A BTC211 Dual Digital Outlet Thermostat Plug, Pre-Wired, 2 Stage Heating and Cooling Mode, 110V - 240V, Fermentation BBQ Reptile Aquarium: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Can't beat this one for the price. With low duty cycle, the 30A relays should last a good long while.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

Can't beat this one for the price. With low duty cycle, the 30A relays should last a good long while.

Brew on

Yeah, that looks good. Call off the search.

 

[ike8228]

Dear @ike8228, the Input Power of INKBIRD ITC-308: 100 ~240VAC, 50Hz/60Hz
Temperature Control Output: Max. 10A, 100V ~240V AC
Please make sure the cooler is within the rated range.

Please follow the instructions. This is a test mode, it can check if there is a problem with the cooling outlet.
1. Unplug the controller, plug cooling device.

2. Hold the SET button (don’ t loosen it till power up)

3. Connect the power supply to power it on, then release the Set button (within 2 seconds, otherwise it will enter normal mode)

4. Press the down button, Please do not press the up button. It will turn on the cooling outlet, cooling indicator light on, is the cooler turned on? (within 2 seconds, otherwise it will enter normal mode)

I tried this. The light comes on but the fridge does not. The display reads set at top and 000 at the bottom.

 

[tracer bullet]

This is very telling. The steady state operating current is 11 A (unless there are separate cords for the lights and compressor), and I believe most InkBird 308 type controllers are rated at 10 A. But the real killer is the LRA of 29.0 A. The Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA) is the start up current required by the compressor motor. This is what is killing the cooling relays in the InkBirds.

Brew on

Argh, it looked low but you are certainly right. It's the sum of those 2 amperages and I also learned something new about the LRA. At a glance the #'s looked lowish but clearly NOT the case.

 

[hotbeer]

Yes you add up your continuous amperages if they are all connected to the same power cord. And that appears to be the 3.8 + 7.2 = 11 amps.

LRA is not quite the same as starting amperage though the two can be about the same value. LRA will likely always be a higher number. Both will only be a momentary increase in demand for a very brief time. I think starting amperage is a older term defined differently.

You don't have to have a device that is built for 30 amps of draw. It just has to be built to briefly handle that amount of current. You'd be okay if you found a device rated at over the 11 amps your refrigerator continuously draws when cooling. And typically the next step up is 15 amps. Then your only concern is how much momentary draw the device can handle.

Not all or even many sold for us as untrained in electrical knowledge will have that specification. But many are built to handle expected overloads due to surges and starting of stuff. But the amount they can handle varies on what the designer or engineer thought it should be for that devices expected use.

And take the above with the understanding that I don't have the training to even state that. Other than maybe for a what if discussion at the Pub with a round of beers going to all. So if someone knows more or needs to set me straight on that, then please do so.

Cheers!

 

[Deadalus]

This is very telling. The steady state operating current is 11 A (unless there are separate cords for the lights and compressor), and I believe most InkBird 308 type controllers are rated at 10 A. But the real killer is the LRA of 29.0 A. The Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA) is the start up current required by the compressor motor. This is what is killing the cooling relays in the InkBirds.

Brew on

I was wondering what that was. And @hotbeer suggests it is the starting amperage which I am only slightly familiar with. As I said earlier, I've seen that estimated at about 3x the steady state amperage and that might just be a rough guess. It's kind of built in to household wiring to handle that because it is brief? This refrigerator has a regular 115V plug in order to go in the Inkbird. That means a 15 amp circuit is ok for it as the manufacturer wouldn't put that plug on it otherwise. What is likely affecting the Inkbird relay more, the LRA or the steady state amperage? Should relays be sized more for the steady state or the LRA or both even?

 

[doug293cz]

I was wondering what that was. And @hotbeer suggests it is the starting amperage which I am only slightly familiar with. As I said earlier, I've seen that estimated at about 3x the steady state amperage and that might just be a rough guess. It's kind of built in to household wiring to handle that because it is brief? This refrigerator has a regular 115V plug in order to go in the Inkbird. That means a 15 amp circuit is ok for it as the manufacturer wouldn't put that plug on it otherwise. What is likely affecting the Inkbird relay more, the LRA or the steady state amperage? Should relays be sized more for the steady state or the LRA or both even?

Yes, household wiring takes motor startup into consideration. Most circuit breakers operate in a way that short overloads don't trip them. The shorter the overload, the more over-current it takes to trip them. If interested, there are characteristic curves published that quantify trip current verse time.

With mechanical contact relays, it is the current on make and break, and the associated arcing which eventually causes them to fail, unless they are way overloaded steady state, and overheat due to resistive heating. The higher the make/break current, the more energy in the arcs, and eventually, the arcing damages the contact points.

Brew on