Immersion chiller for BIG batches?

[damnitbeavis]

Howdy all,

I'm sorta new here, but I thought I would tap into the greater knowledge base of everyone to discuss construction of an immersion chiller for my brewery.

I brew 30 gallon batches, and the rack I bought came with a stainless steel chiller that just doesn't work that well. Last time I brewed I hooked up a whirlpool arm and ran the march pump during the chilling and it helped a lot, but was still too slow.

So I want to build another chiller with sufficient capacity for this purpose. I plan to do whirlpool/immersion. I have done counterflow before, but I believe that the hop aroma just isn't as good that way, and it would take a long time to flow all that wort through a chiller, so what does everyone think about this:

I found a really nice deal on 3/4" type L copper coil (7/8" OD), and I was thinking about making a 60 foot chiller out of this. I think it would displace a little over 2 gallons of wort.

The other option that I'm considering would be two 50 foot long 1/2" refrigeration copper tubing (1/2" OD), and then run two inlet and outlet hoses. The cost of the two would be about the same, surprisingly.

I want this to chill the wort, fast!

Votes?

Thanks,
Eric

 

[KuntyBrew]

look into a ribcage style cooler

 

[itsme6582]

I think IC are limited practically in how much they can chill. Obviously, you can make the IC bigger and bigger but with a counter flow chiller you are only limited by flow rate. I think I would go with a plate chiller for 30 gallon batches. You can go right from the boil kettle to the fermentor and can get there as quickly as your wort drains. The greater the flow rate, the more plates you'll need. I think 40 plates is more than enough for a the standard March pump but I'm not speaking from experience.

 

[damnitbeavis]

Thanks for the input, guys! I still think the symmetric whirlpool immersion chiller is what I want......

Kunty- I like the idea of the ribcage style design, but I worry about the asymmetric shape causing problems with the whirlpool.

Itsme- I feel like immersion chillers are limited by surface area and inlet/outlet flow, with enough metal in the kettle, and enough coolant water, the problem should be overcome. I don't like the wonky sanitization and cleaning that a plate chiller or cf chiller entails, and I'd like to be able to leave the cold break in the kettle without having to pump to a second kettle first.

Here's what I'm thinking now- two nested coils, the inner about 40-50 feet 5/8 inch copper, the outer about 60-70 feet, with one flowing coolant top to bottom, the other flowing bottom to top. Two inlet and outlet hoses. A side benefit of this design would be that I could use just the inner coil if I do a ten gallon pilot batch.

Anyone ever seen or heard of something like this? It's a sort of counterflow/immersion/whirpool design. I'm betting it'll work.

 

[BeerCanuck]

I am a big fan of the immersion chillers for the same reasons you have mentioned. I currently use a 50' 1/2" immersion chiller for my 11 gallon batches and I am pleased with the performance. One option that I plan on implementing is using a secondary immersion chiller in an ice bucket as a prechiller. The main advantages would be no need for an extra pump and the ice is used efficiently throughout the chill stage to bring the input water down to lower temperatures during the hotter summer months.

my 2 cents
Cheers;
BeerCanuck

 

[KuntyBrew]

i agree the assymetric design of a ribcage would probably interfere with the whirlpool for the trub cone i think 2 inlet and outlets is better than 1 long one more cool water flowing through

 

[damnitbeavis]

started building this thing yesterday. I have built the outer coil/chiller, with 60 feet 1/2 inch type L tubing (5/8" od). Tomorrow I will try to put the inner chiller together out of 50 feet 5/8 refrig tubing (5/8" od). I'm planning to brew this weekend, so hopefully I can post up some test data... the goal will be to get 30 gallons from boiling to pitching temps in 15 minutes, if possible. Wish me luck!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I want this to chill the wort, fast!

Eric

The ability of the chiller really depends on the water temperature flowing through the chiller. Tap works pretty quick from boil. Sending ice water through the chiller will really make it perform! Even the best of chillers are limited if using warmish chilling water.

 

[Bobby_M]

Rather than go larger diameter, you'll be much better off running twice as much small diameter and it should end up about the same price. Also, instead of running linear, split the input/output for two parallel flows. Two 50' runs of 1/2" ID should do it.

 

[GatorDad]

As wilser correctly points out, it's more about the temp of the water flowing through your chiller. Considering 30 gal batches, you might want a water chiller:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?SearchText=chiller&parsed=1

 

[damnitbeavis]

Rather than go larger diameter, you'll be much better off running twice as much small diameter and it should end up about the same price. Also, instead of running linear, split the input/output for two parallel flows. Two 50' runs of 1/2" ID should do it.

I totally agree with running more water making a larger impact. In this case I am having an inlet and outlet for each chiller, and will run two different hoses to chill. I guess it'll be an experiment to see whether 5/8" works, but at this point I've committed to that diameter rather than 1/2". We shall see!

 

[Bobby_M]

Those reef chillers are designed to take a small amount of heat out of the closed loop very gradually. It's not going to do much in a wort chilling timeframe. The only practical solution to high tap water temps is to pump icewater. Prechiller work somewhat, but only to take a few degrees off at the flow rates we use.

 

[Bobby_M]

I totally agree with running more water making a larger impact. In this case I am having an inlet and outlet for each chiller, and will run two different hoses to chill. I guess it'll be an experiment to see whether 5/8" works, but at this point I've committed to that diameter rather than 1/2". We shall see!

5/8" will work sure. My IC is 50' of 5/8.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Call me crazy, but I bet a 50' 1/2" "Superchiller" style IC would still do the job! It might take a little longer, just make sure you keep the wort moving. Then, if you want to whirlpool, you can take the IC out and do it then.....

 

[damnitbeavis]

Call me crazy, but I bet a 50' 1/2" "Superchiller" style IC would still do the job! It might take a little longer, just make sure you keep the wort moving. Then, if you want to whirlpool, you can take the IC out and do it then.....

definitely it would work. I have a approximately 50' stainless immersion chiller that came with my used brew-rack, but it just takes too darn long. I'm impatient, and I do believe the hoopla about rapid chilling of the whole batch produces better hop aroma.

I got SWMBO to approve the purchase of all this copper, and it's beautiful! I'm making it less pretty with all my sloppy soldering, but at this point its more about functionality anyways, cause my brew rack is sorta ugly. I'll post a pic of the chiller when I'm done.

thanks for all the comments, guys!

 

[Monster Mash]

I brew 30 gallon batches also and I use a chillus convolutus counter flow. In order to combat the problem of aroma loss I put my 0 addition hops in a grant and run my wort through that before chilling. I don't think an IC is a good choice for large batches unless you run 3 or more separate coils.

Running a longer coil won't help, once the water reaches a certain point in the coil it has already absorbed all the heat it can so by the time it hits 30' of a 50' coil it no longer can absorb heat. Multiple coils is the best way to go for an IC but a plate chiller or cfc is more efficient.

 

[wedge421]

Yeah for that batch size why dont you go with a Plate chiller?

 

[damnitbeavis]

I brew 30 gallon batches also and I use a chillus convolutus counter flow. In order to combat the problem of aroma loss I put my 0 addition hops in a grant and run my wort through that before chilling. I don't think an IC is a good choice for large batches unless you run 3 or more separate coils.

Running a longer coil won't help, once the water reaches a certain point in the coil it has already absorbed all the heat it can so by the time it hits 30' of a 50' coil it no longer can absorb heat. Multiple coils is the best way to go for an IC but a plate chiller or cfc is more efficient.

well, a longer coil of higher diameter would allow me to run the coolant faster, as it has more surface area, so more coolant can be heated at the same time. 30' of 1/2 or 3/8 inch would probably reach max temp, but I'm thinking that 5/8" with its far greater surface area, and coolant flow will do better. The chiller i'm building will have two coils, separate in/out on each. I've done CF chilling, and thought about plates, but I don't like not being able to see inside, wonky cleaning/sanitization procedures, a large pot of hot wort losing hop aromas, and whatnot. I agree a grant is a good idea, but as I said before, now I've committed to this route, having bought/bent the coils already. We shall see!

 

[Monster Mash]

I've done CF chilling, and thought about plates, but I don't like not being able to see inside, wonky cleaning/sanitization procedures, a large pot of hot wort losing hop aromas, and whatnot. I agree a grant is a good idea, but as I said before, now I've committed to this route, having bought/bent the coils already. We shall see!

I hear that a lot but for 17 years I have only used cfc's and never had an infected batch. Cleaning and sanitizing is an extra step but it's not difficult.

 

[damnitbeavis]

Monster- I used a counterflow chiller like 10 years ago, and I liked it. But now, I just want to do something a little different. Homebrewing creates endless opportunities to fiddle and try different techniques.

I think I'm gonna try open fermentation sometime soon too, in a kettle I have that has only sanitary fittings. Why not, right?

 

[damnitbeavis]

well, I'm mostly done. The chillers have been built and pressure/leak tested. I still need to make the wort return, but I figure that won't be too difficult. Monday we will have a test to see how it all works!

 

[damnitbeavis]

oops, here are pics

 

[damnitbeavis]

Took 27 gallons from boiling to 75 in 19 minutes. I'm pleased!

Tap water temp is 66F

 

[Reno_eNVy]

GOOD LORD! That's amazing (to both the size/ingenuity and the speed )

 

[mcaple1]

Damn 30 gallons....I wish!