I went "pro" - What it actually takes to do so

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This is a really common concept that goes through my head.... "What's the definition of success?" And that's a huge part of what you are touching on and its a huge reason why I don't buy the "bubble".

I hear people all the time say, "you can't make any money with a nano". Ok... but what do you mean by 'make money'? What is your definition of success regarding 'making money'? (And I don't mean YOU limulus... Speaking in general terms). If people mean "you can't support a workforce of ten people with salaries that would allow them to buy huge homes and drive Ferraris". Then sure... you can't "make money" with a nano.

But if they mean, "you can't generate enough capital to grow the business into something more meaningful".... then I TOTALLY disagree.

Same with the "bubble". "Oh, the market can't support all these breweries... there are too many of them!" Again... What's your definition of a successful brewery?

If you are saying that the market can't support 3,500 Stones.... or Sierra Nevadas... or Lagunitas... Sure...
I agree. But who said you have to be that big to be successful or be sustainable?

If you google "how many pizza places in US", you'll get an answer of "about 60,000". That doesn't mean there are 60,000 Dominos, or Papa Johns, or Pizza Huts out there. There are tens of thousands of little mom & pop pizza places.... and probably a large chunk are successful enough to provide their owner with a comfortable living.... so why isn't anyone talking about the "pizza parlor bubble"?

Over 45,000 Chinese food restaurants in the US. When is the Chinese food restaurant bubble going to burst?

The definition of success is very different from person to person and from brewery owner to brewery owner. A large chunk have no desire to be Stone. They just want to make beer, something they are passionate about, and make enough money to put food on their table and make their mortgage payments.... and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you have a large amount of those people (which i think the craft beer industry does)..... than I don't think we are remotely close to any bubble bursting.

Everyone's definition is different.
I'm glad your brewery is successful and not built on credit. Pay as you go is a much safer business model.
Nano is a good way to prove your concept before trying to build into something bigger. Really being profitable and generating a significant positive cash flow, not sure about that.
What you've said about there being no craft brewery bubble might be specific to your area, it is possible that Massachusetts has a different market than other areas. Here in Portland there are breweries going under and a very competitive market with a 'soft' ceiling and enough competition (~55 breweries in the city and ~75 in the metro area) that there may be more. Exploit your market and serve it well if possible.
Here's to much more success for you and your partners. Many of us envy you.:mug:
 
What establishments are you at in Boston? Next month I am staying in Yarmouth but flying into Boston. Would love to try your offerings
 
I will fight you!!!!!

No!! Those are NOT stupid... 5 gallon conicals!?!? STUPID! Equivalent to the DEVIL!!

These??? Not stupid at all. 500 gallons? Genius.

Hopefully without derailing your awesome thread, in your professional opinion at what point between 5 gallons and 500 do conicals reach the tipping point between stupid and not stupid?
 
My response to lschiavo was a joke because he was busting my chops about conicals. I've been on HBT for a number of years and have never hidden my disdain for "homebrew conicals".... and he was taking the opportunity, like I was sayin, to bust my chops (which was well played. Well played in deed)

Me... Personally... and trying not to go off on too much of a tangent... I think conicals for homebrew use serve no real purpose other than "bling factor".

There is nothing you can do with a conical that can't be done dramatically cheaper with very little added labor.

Personally... And this is a bit arbitrary.,, But I don't see any reason for conicals under, at least, 100 gallons.

Put it this way... For our nano, we do mostly 100 gallon batches and we don't own a single conical for those batches.
 
My response to lschiavo was a joke because he was busting my chops about conicals. I've been on HBT for a number of years and have never hidden my disdain for "homebrew conicals".... and he was taking the opportunity, like I was sayin, to bust my chops (which was well played. Well played in deed)

Me... Personally... and trying not to go off on too much of a tangent... I think conicals for homebrew use serve no real purpose other than "bling factor".

There is nothing you can do with a conical that can't be done dramatically cheaper with very little added labor.

Personally... And this is a bit arbitrary.,, But I don't see any reason for conicals under, at least, 100 gallons.

Put it this way... For our nano, we do mostly 100 gallon batches and we don't own a single conical for those batches.
Thanks, I was just curious. I picked up on the idea that lschiavo was busting chops. I will very likely never buy a conical as I've never had a problem using two plastic fermenters or better bottles so don't fix what isn't broken, right?

However, if there was a breakeven point between where conicals make sense or not I was curious about where you thought it might be and why you believed that to be the case. Since it appears to be over the 100 gallon level I think I am fine sticking with the status quo.
 
The breakeven, in my head, is when yeast harvesting becomes a necessity and, given volumes, it is impractical to rack to a second vessel.

We don't even harvest yeast for 100 gallon batches. A brick of yeast isn't cost prohibitive by any stretch and it's just easier to pitch new slugs of yeast.

Spending $800... $1,000... and up, so you can harvest yeast that costs $3 a packet... That just doesn't make sense to me.

Now... if someone has the cash to light on fire and they like the bling... by all means. Have at it. I have seen a whole bunch of times though where people make it sound like conicals will magically make better beer so its a "gotta have!" and I can't get on that train
 
With your 100 gallon fermenters do you have systems in place for heating as well as cooling, or does fermentation/ambient air temp do the trick?
 
With your 100 gallon fermenters do you have systems in place for heating as well as cooling, or does fermentation/ambient air temp do the trick?


We have a couple small 50 gal fermenters and have a basic heating pad tucked under one that we use very rarely. The only time we use it is on a rye saison we do and we like to get that temp really jacked up.

Other than that, we've never had any need to warm any of the fermenters.
 
So after fermentation they would be at the mercy of the ambient temp? And is this even a problem?
 
Where do you buy your yeast in bulk? Online? Do you prefer dry or liquid?

Thanks!

The breakeven, in my head, is when yeast harvesting becomes a necessity and, given volumes, it is impractical to rack to a second vessel.

We don't even harvest yeast for 100 gallon batches. A brick of yeast isn't cost prohibitive by any stretch and it's just easier to pitch new slugs of yeast.

Spending $800... $1,000... and up, so you can harvest yeast that costs $3 a packet... That just doesn't make sense to me.

Now... if someone has the cash to light on fire and they like the bling... by all means. Have at it. I have seen a whole bunch of times though where people make it sound like conicals will magically make better beer so its a "gotta have!" and I can't get on that train
 
So after fermentation they would be at the mercy of the ambient temp? And is this even a problem?


Ambient temp is room temp... of 68-70... So no.. Not at all. The fermenters are wrapped in soft-drawn copper and hooked up to commercial glycol chillers. We can control the temp within a degree from ambient down to 37-38 degrees in the fermenters. If we want to go "hot" for our Saison, we simply set the glycol PID for that fermenter at whatever we want the highest temp to be and click on the heating pad.... but that's only in limited cases
 
Where do you buy your yeast in bulk? Online? Do you prefer dry or liquid?



Thanks!


We buy 95% of our yeast directly from our wholesaler (Brewer's Supply Group) and then occasionally directly from White Labs. I don't think we have a strong preference between one or the other. For our "base yeast", we just use US-05 dry yeast. We have a good sized flask and stir plate so rehydrating is no big deal. For our more specialized yeast, we use liquid due to availability.
 
Ambient temp is room temp... of 68-70... So no.. Not at all. The fermenters are wrapped in soft-drawn copper and hooked up to commercial glycol chillers. We can control the temp within a degree from ambient down to 37-38 degrees in the fermenters. If we want to go "hot" for our Saison, we simply set the glycol PID for that fermenter at whatever we want the highest temp to be and click on the heating pad.... but that's only in limited cases

Fair bit warmer than it is here then. Thanks for the replies, and the thread.
 
Just read the important stuff in the entire thread (Cape's posts). Great work from start to finish and congrats on the immense and quick acceptance into the craft beer industry. Truly is an inspiring way of building a business around hard work and time commitment as opposed to dumping tons of money into it and praying you can pay bills. Not a lot of people go that route these days and its seemed to have paid off big time for you three. Thanks for sharing and make sure to keep us posted on new experiences/difficulties/advances of your new brewhouse. Cheers bud!
 
Thanks. Like I have said a few times, I'm not at all saying the way we did things is the "right" way.... but I believe it was the right way for us.

Right now we are struggling through the inevitable delays of trying to get the new brewhouse to actually make beer. It's all really stupid, frustrating stuff...'Like we ordered the wrong filter bag for our huge water filter so the filter isn't working exactly right, which we are fixing... and we need to plumb in glycol to the heat exchanger, which is just a matter of trying to find the hours. Our new mill decided to start tripping breakers last night as we were dialing that in so we need to fix that.

It's a pile of little annoying things now but we're determined to actually brew on the new 15 bbl system before we die.

.... and then we're gonna get alllllllllll the ladies
 
For the 100gal fermenters, do you do anything special to transfer the beer once fermentation is complete? I'm guessing there's just a port near the bottom you hook up to a pump or something, but I'm curious what you've been doing for that.
 
Our glycol set-up is so efficient that we don't rack to any secondary fermenters. We simply crash in primary until the beer is clear and then we pump directly into kegs. The bottom port is always just high enough off the bottom to avoid pulling trub. We run off, maybe, half a gallon to make sure it is totally clear and then, like I was saying, pump straight into kegs.

Believe or not, we're still force-carbing. Given the volumes we're doing, it's actually easier than taking the extra step of a brite. That will NOT be the case going forward with the new brewhouse. We have 15 bbl fermenters that are pressure rated to double as brites so we can crash, dump yeast and then carb in the same vessel.
 
Wow still force carbing kudos. I couldn't wait to give up that step. Glad to see expansion happening for you albiet with the expected never before thought of hiccups haha
 
Oh trust me... we're VERY much looking forward to getting rid of that step. It's just way easier given the number of kegs we're putting out on our little system. We can do them four at a time and it's not too bad.

We'll get over the hiccups... they are more of an annoyance than anything else really.
 
That's great I was only able to carb one at a time so I'm pretty sure i shed a tear when the BT arrived.
 
We just have two 15bbl fermenters now and hope to grow that up to a dozen in the not-too-distant future and they'll all be "dual usage" so we won't need dedicated BTs
 
Here I am in the hospital on call. My beeper has been surprisingly silent, meaning I can get some sleep... But instead I spent the last few hours reading through this entire thread!

Congratulations on all of your success! It is a real inspiration to read about your brewery. As so many of us on this forum hope to do, I hope to be able to start a brewery in the future. I have a wife, kids,a demanding job, and no potential business partners, so I don't know if that dream will ever come to fruition...But at least I can live vicariously through you!
 
Ohhhh. Sorry. That slipped out. I'm kind of drunk

Wait. You stayed in health care. I retired.

Which one of us is the smart one again?

Oh, wait. I forgot. Smart is spelled smahrt in your area. Maybe you didn't understand.

Anyway, I like being a peon. In the ED last night, I said, "May I help you?" to someone. Then, I RAN back to my former partner and said, "Deb, I need you. Gotta guy in acute respiratory distress at the door."

She ran to assist, and I went back to my post as the Wal-Mart Greeter at our ED.

Gotta love retirement. :rockin: Of course, they no longer pay paramedic wages to me. But that's ok, I work like 4 days a month, more or less, saying "May I help you?" But I really don't help anybody, do anything much at all, never hurt myself, and never work overtime.

But ok, I do miss acute care. Sometimes. As a former respiratory therapist and paramedic, I do miss it. Sometimes.

By the way, I hear all the time that "everybody" wants to go pro. While it's great for Cape, that last thing I want to do is work hard. I am really good at "May I help you?", so if Cape ever needs a Walmart greeter for the brewery, I am more than well qualified. Just in case, keep me in mind, ok? :D
 
Wait. You stayed in health care. I retired.

Which one of us is the smart one again?

Oh, wait. I forgot. Smart is spelled smahrt in your area. Maybe you didn't understand.

Anyway, I like being a peon. In the ED last night, I said, "May I help you?" to someone. Then, I RAN back to my former partner and said, "Deb, I need you. Gotta guy in acute respiratory distress at the door."

She ran to assist, and I went back to my post as the Wal-Mart Greeter at our ED.

Gotta love retirement. :rockin: Of course, they no longer pay paramedic wages to me. But that's ok, I work like 4 days a month, more or less, saying "May I help you?" But I really don't help anybody, do anything much at all, never hurt myself, and never work overtime.

But ok, I do miss acute care. Sometimes. As a former respiratory therapist and paramedic, I do miss it. Sometimes.

By the way, I hear all the time that "everybody" wants to go pro. While it's great for Cape, that last thing I want to do is work hard. I am really good at "May I help you?", so if Cape ever needs a Walmart greeter for the brewery, I am more than well qualified. Just in case, keep me in mind, ok? :D

I cant believe I ended up in the middle of this. I'm just pissed that the Massholes seem to be having an influence on my Yooper. She is tender and vulnerable. Lay off Jerks!
 
I cant believe I ended up in the middle of this. I'm just pissed that the Massholes seem to be having an influence on my Yooper. She is tender and vulnerable. Lay off Jerks!

Shhhhh. They think I'm a tough chick, with balls. Don't blow my cover. I'm big and bad, and they know it.

Although, one of them last weekend called me a "hummingbird" as I walked around the fire. Maybe "hummingbird" isn't as bad ass as I thought.

I see myself as more as an eagle, or even a vulture. No one seems to be scared of a hummingbird.

'Sic 'em @lschiavo !
 
Shhhhh. They think I'm a tough chick, with balls. Don't blow my cover. I'm big and bad, and they know it.

Although, one of them last weekend called me a "hummingbird" as I walked around the fire. Maybe "hummingbird" isn't as bad ass as I thought.

I see myself as more as an eagle, or even a vulture. No one seems to be scared of a hummingbird.

'Sic 'em @lschiavo !

Well, you're still the one that taught me to brew. I'll never forget my first brewday. I got yer back. I have seen hummingbirds kill...its not pretty.
 
Uhhhhhhh.
No one called you s f'ing hummingbird. You were drunk on your azz. We called you a f'ing dumb azz after you dropped a hunk of cheese onto a pizza I was making. And we called you a wimp after listening to you whine about the weather. And, in spite of everything,we awarded you the Masstoberfest Cup! You must have special skills that regular folks aren't aware of.
 
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