How to end up with 5 gallons of beer on bottling day

[Gunshowgreg]

Back again everyone. I have tried looking this up on the internet but I have not really found any answers that I am looking for. So if there is a another article that y'all know about please inform him. It seems that lately I have been having to make my 5-gallon batches 5.5 gallon batches and though that is working out for me I'm still having some difficulty maintaining my original gravity as it should be. Obviously. Is there a way without me adding water to my post boil aftermath that I can end up with my 5-gallon batches being 5 gallons on the day I bottle them? Is the answer dry malt extract? If so is there a cheaper alternative to dry malt extract? Dry malt extract as kind of expensive and I really don't like spending my money on a $7 pound bag of dry malt extract. I have been doing 5.5 gallons for my post boil because I'm also accounting for trub loss as well. My current setup is a 10 gallon aluminum pot on a burner propane burner that is I lose about 1.5 gallons every hour while boiling. Some people will read that and say that is BS and that is not true that I am over calculating my boil off rate. I don't do hard vigorous boils just when the water begins to boil like turn it down a little bit and I have a gentle Roll Effect. 5 1/2 gallon seems to be working for my quantities just well however it is hurting my original gravity in the long run. And I do all grain batch brewing with a picnic cooler

Sorry for the lengthy post just trying to be informative. It just really sucks when you read on a recipe and it tells you that it's a 5-gallon recipe and I end up with about four gallons when it's all said and done. Maybe this is normal but I don't know. Do I just suck it up and move on or is there a solution to this?

 

[brewbama]

To end with 5 gal in the keg, I ferment 5.5 gal, my post boil vol is 6.5 gal (I whirlpool and eliminate trub), my pre boil vol is 7.5 gal, and I mash with 8.5 gal (depending on grain bill but that’s avg). I plug all this into BeerSmith and it tells me how much grain I’ll need to reach a certain OG post boil (6.5 gal).

 

[Keith81]

Since you are doing all grain you can use a little more base malt in your recipe so you get 5.5 gallons at the OG you are trying for. Do you use brewing software? That would be the easiest way to determine how much more grain you need.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Yes I use a brewing software. I guess my issue is that I do not build my own recipies. My troubles come from following recipies and getting my post volume and my trub calculations to mesh and not screw up my OG. I siphon from brew kettle to peimarybto leave out as much trub as possible. But going into bottling bucket I still end up leaving crap behind and getting less than 5 gallons. If this is part of it cool I'll get over it.

I'm wondering. Should I just take a recipe and increase the basemalt by 2 or 3 lbs? Be cheaper than DME. Or would this cause color and flavor to be off?

 

[Keith81]

That could work, it might take a few tries to find out what weight gets closest to desired OG. It would be best if you used whatever base malt is used in the recipe that you are brewing but I don't think you'd likely be able to tell the difference in most beers if you just used regular 2 row.

 

[rodwha]

LME is cheaper. Doesn’t seem common to be able to purchase exacting amounts of LME (I only know of one), but maybe you could use a 3.3 lb can (MoreBeer sells as small as 3 lbs).

But you most certainly can add a bit more base malt. Does it change the recipe? Yep, a little. The ratios of other malts and the hops is effected a little bit. But even adding extract will change this. You’d have to scale the recipe up in its entirety to end up with the same beer (somewhat exactly). Some calculators will scale for you or you could be happy with being just close. Or you can either just accept that it’s a little different or your end volumes are a little lower.

Or you could work on your own recipes...

 

[jrgtr42]

I plan for 5.5 gal into the fermenter. Expecting some losses from trub and such, but offset from stuff that wasn't there before (lots of yeast growing int here. I usually end up with about 5.25 drinkable after all is said and done.
I usually take existing recipes and modify them a bit. I'll more or less eyeball a bit higher gravity, rounding up if amounts are odd numbers, and I'll plug things into BrewToad, Brewers Friend now that the Toad is no more. I still use those numbers it gives back as estimates. If I'm within .005 - .01 OG of the estimate, I'm doing good. If I'm way off, somethings wrong, and I'll diagnose from there (usually just bad numbers somewhere.)
I don't bother with hitting numbers exactly, I'll measure what I have and call it good from there.
RDWHAHB.

 

[HopsNTails]

Instead of taking others recipes verbatim, try plugging the numbers into some kind of brewing software. I use beersmith. You can set values that are specific to your system. It will calculate variables and help fine tune recipes to your setup. Boil off rates are different depending on the dimensions of certain pots. Could be as simple as your pot is wider than it is tall. Adjusting for that should give you the same results without having to add any extract.
Side note; I'm drunkish now, so sorry if I rambled

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Instead of taking others recipes verbatim, try plugging the numbers into some kind of brewing software. I use beersmith. You can set values that are specific to your system. It will calculate variables and help fine tune recipes to your setup. Boil off rates are different depending on the dimensions of certain pots. Could be as simple as your pot is wider than it is tall. Adjusting for that should give you the same results without having to add any extract.
Side note; I'm drunkish now, so sorry if I rambled

Not at rambling. I use brewers friend for a lot of things. And I have used MoreBeer water calculator to help me with this. I havent committed yet to buy the software like beerSmith. I like the idea of adjusting the recipe to fit the needs of my system. I have a mocha porter I would like to brew again this weekend. I tried deviating from it a bit and added some oatmeal to it as well. It came out a bit lighter in color than what I wanted it to. I'm not sure if the oats had a play in that or if it just didnt have enough chocholate malt to help darken it. I under shot my OG as well but I know that had something to do with miss understanding where my water lines were on my spoon.

When using beersmith does the software basically let you work backwards? Is there one out there that is free?

 

[Gunshowgreg]

LME is cheaper. Doesn’t seem common to be able to purchase exacting amounts of LME (I only know of one), but maybe you could use a 3.3 lb can (MoreBeer sells as small as 3 lbs).

But you most certainly can add a bit more base malt. Does it change the recipe? Yep, a little. The ratios of other malts and the hops is effected a little bit. But even adding extract will change this. You’d have to scale the recipe up in its entirety to end up with the same beer (somewhat exactly). Some calculators will scale for you or you could be happy with being just close. Or you can either just accept that it’s a little different or your end volumes are a little lower.

Or you could work on your own recipes...

I'm ok with being close. Not a perfectionist. I read an article that said brewing is a lot less like cooking and a lot more like baking. I find this to be true. I cook a lot and my cooking techniques dont seem to work well in my brewing habits.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

This recipe here. I'm thinking Bout adding another 2 lbs of 2 row. Another lbs of crystal. Maybe another of chocholate malt (or 2) and maybe another 4 oz of black patent Malt. I didn't use brewing software but that kinda upped my OG a bit I think to compensate for volume. If brewers friend has something I can use to find out if this works. What is it called?

 

[whovous]

If I understand correctly, you are adding 0.5 gallons to a 5 gallon batch. 0.5 is 10% of 5. If you are adding 10% more water, you should consider adding 10% of each grain as well. You could add 10% more hops as well. I wouldn't add more yeast though.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

If I understand correctly, you are adding 0.5 gallons to a 5 gallon batch. 0.5 is 10% of 5. If you are adding 10% more water, you should consider adding 10% of each grain as well. You could add 10% more hops as well. I wouldn't add more yeast though.

Could it be that simple?[emoji15] if so I shall try it.

 

[Homergah]

If you plug the entire recipe into brewer's friend at 5 gallons, after you have saved it you can then hit the "scale" button and bring it up to 5.5 gallons. This will increase you individual grain and hop additions proportionately to the new size. I suggest whatever software you decide to use, buy it, and stick with it.

 

[kh54s10]

When you use someone else's recipe you need to adjust it for your equipment. Your system will not necessarily work the same as someone else's. They may only be collecting 5 gallons. If you collect 5.5 you have changed the recipe.

I use Beersmith and the first thing you have to do with the software is your equipment profile, then you have to fine tune it to get predictable results.

 

[kevin58]

You need to know what the losses are for your system. You want to take actual measurements before, during and after your brew sessions. What is the dead space in your mash tun? How much do you lose to grain absorption? Do you use pumps and hoses... how much is left behind in those? What is your boil off rate? What is your boil kettle dead space? How much is left behind in the boil kettle with the trub and do you leave anything behind after racking from the fermenter?

 

[Gunshowgreg]

You need to know what the losses are for your system. You want to take actual measurements before, during and after your brew sessions. What is the dead space in your mash tun? How much do you lose to grain absorption? Do you use pumps and hoses... how much is left behind in those? What is your boil off rate? What is your boil kettle dead space? How much is left behind in the boil kettle with the trub and do you leave anything behind after racking from the fermenter?

I plug all of that into the more beer calculator. I will definitely try to scale the recipes with the software to see what I get.

 

[jrgtr42]

Could it be that simple?[emoji15] if so I shall try it.

It's pretty durn close. All other things being equal, and if you've worked your own system and come out that close, it should be about that. If you are planning on exact numbers then you'd want to calculate it out, things may not work exactly the same in bigger quantities (this is why breweries sometimes have problems when upgrading equipment, they need to dial in the recipes to their new systems.)
For those of us to whom close enough is good enough, then scaling by percentages works just fine.

 

[wepeeler]

Not at rambling. I use brewers friend for a lot of things. And I have used MoreBeer water calculator to help me with this. I havent committed yet to buy the software like beerSmith. I like the idea of adjusting the recipe to fit the needs of my system. I have a mocha porter I would like to brew again this weekend. I tried deviating from it a bit and added some oatmeal to it as well. It came out a bit lighter in color than what I wanted it to. I'm not sure if the oats had a play in that or if it just didnt have enough chocholate malt to help darken it. I under shot my OG as well but I know that had something to do with miss understanding where my water lines were on my spoon.

When using beersmith does the software basically let you work backwards? Is there one out there that is free?

Using Beersmith, or any brewing software, you need to make sure your equipment profile is setup correctly ie Volumes, boil off, trub loss, top up water etc. Once all that is correct, it's very easy to reproduce recipes and numbers. It took me almost 6 months of wondering why I wasn't hitting my numbers to finally realize my equipment profile was off. Volume makes a huge difference, as does boil off rate. Starting with too much water will result in a lower OG. Starting with less will result in a higher OG. And this is assuming your boil off is correct. Beersmith doesn't work backwards per se. It allows you to start with a certain amount of water, grains and hops and end up with a calculated approximation of what to expect ie OG, FG, IBU, ABV, Color etc. I would throw in a pound or so extra grains if you're getting consistently low OGs. If you're not getting enough volume for packaging, add a little more water and grains. But I would check your profile and make sure you have everything as accurate as possible.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Well to resurface all the help I have been given. I adjusted my numbers accordingly with brewers friend and scaled yo a 5.5 batch with this porter recipe. The results were drastically better. I over shot the OG by about .005. (Was supposed to be 1.066 got 1.071) but I'm not complaining. I did add more chocolate malt to the batch for darker color. It was very light last time. I also have more than 5 gallons in the fermenter. Maybe 5.3 to 5.4 gallons. Thank you all for your help

The good idea ferry's have just visited me. I was wondering if I should add some steralized water to the fermenter now to adjust gravity and increase quantity or should I just leave it be? I pitched the yeast last night and I do have fermentation now.

Thanks again
Greg

 

[kh54s10]

You could add water if you want. But you take the chance of diluting too much. I aim for 5.25 gallons into the fermenter, when bagging my hops or having only a couple of ounces added. (larger amounts of hops get adjusted for more wort). I take what I get as far as gravity goes. With the average of 5.25 before fermentation I will get right around 5 gallons packaged.

 

[Home_alone1]

I had this problem at first , I’m a trial and error kind of guy, I keep a notebook of all my brews and it helps me estimate what my OG is going to be , I also keep brewing notes and tasting notes. I started brewing 10 gallon batches but quickly learned 12 gallons was easier for me to collect 10 gallons , usually I end up with 11 gallons now plus or minus a bottle.

 

[balrog]

It is easy enough to calc what dilution will do to gravity. Brewersfriend has one for instance. But it's only as good as your real, actual, volume measurements are.

5.25 gallons at 1.071 = 5.25 * 71 "gravity points" = 372.75
Want 1.066? Then you need a volume of: 372.75/66 = 5.648 gallons, adding ~ 0.4 gal
I just just tapwater.

 

[wepeeler]

Well to resurface all the help I have been given. I adjusted my numbers accordingly with brewers friend and scaled yo a 5.5 batch with this porter recipe. The results were drastically better. I over shot the OG by about .005. (Was supposed to be 1.066 got 1.071) but I'm not complaining. I did add more chocolate malt to the batch for darker color. It was very light last time. I also have more than 5 gallons in the fermenter. Maybe 5.3 to 5.4 gallons. Thank you all for your help

The good idea ferry's have just visited me. I was wondering if I should add some steralized water to the fermenter now to adjust gravity and increase quantity or should I just leave it be? I pitched the yeast last night and I do have fermentation now.

Thanks again
Greg

Leave it be and adjust your numbers for your next batch. That way you can dial everything in for future batches and hopefully become more consistent. On the homebrew level, it's important to realize you may be off from time to time. It's usually a volume adjustment or an efficiency issue. The best thing I could have ever done, and some advice for newer brewers would be to use your numbers in the beginning as a guide, not the end all. Once you've figured out your equipment profile, and make the adjustments accordingly, everything will start to fall into place. I struggled to "hit my numbers" for months. It was driving me insane. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not something that induces more stress. Don't Worry Relax And Have A HomeBrew DWRAHAHB