How much better is all grain Vs. Extract brewing??

[mike1978]

I have been thinking alot lately about making the switch to all grain and was just wondering how much difference is really noticable? Is it worth it, i guess is what im really asking.

 

[smitty2324]

From my experience, I have made excellent all grain, partial mash, and extract beers. Each method definitely has it's own benefits and issues. Extract is very repeatable, but more expensive and can be limiting due to the few types if malt extract available. Steeping grains can make up for this. All grain gives much more freedom to create recipes, and is considerably less expensive. That being said it will likely take you another two hours per batch and it can be difficult to replicate batches if you don't have your process dialed in and keep good notes.

I don't think that all-grain makes better beer, for what it is worth.

 

[khiddy]

I think it's totally worth it, because it's then 100% your product, and you have access to create recipes on your own, rather than just doing pre-packaged kits or recipes that others have done for you. You also can adjust the fermentability of the recipe, leading to heavier or drier beers, much easier than with extract brewing. You can create clones of favorite beers, and you can create new styles that merge your favorite flavors. It's marginally cheaper, and you get to play with/DIY more equipment!

I made the jump not long after I started extract brewing. Here's what I've noticed:

1) It adds time to the brew day - somewhere between 90 minutes and 2 hours additional, plus some additional cleanup (rinse out the MLT, screen, mash/sparge water vessels, and some more hosing).

2) I use twice as much energy (propane) in the process, because you need to bring your mash & sparge water up to temp. I've taken to doing that part on the stovetop, which means that I tie up part of the kitchen on brewdays now - fortunately, my bride doesn't seem to mind.

3) You will make more mess. Grinding grain is a dusty process, with husks inevitably getting out of the bucket onto the floor. Your mash/lauter tun may leak a bit of sticky wort onto the floor (or shoot it out of the ball valve, if it's at all like my last batch). It smells marvelous, however!

 

[kornkob]

Going all grain will not make your beer 'better'. It merely gives you a greater range of factors you can control to dial in the precise flavors you are looking to achieve.

Determining whether it is 'worth' it is a pretty personal call. Some people try it and never go back. Some people try it and just doesn't appeal. My suggestion: find an all grain brewer in your area and see if they will let you use their all grain gear (and perhaps their help learning) for a batch to see if its something that is a good fit for you.

(or use the method outlined in this post https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/all-grain-brewing-extract-brewing-equipment-pics-142648/ -- I'venever tried it but it looks like it woudl work theoretically.

 

[passedpawn]

I love AG. I will never go back to extract. I guess technically it is the same as a partial mash if you replace the base grains with the extract, but I love milling my grains and running my fingers through 20# of cracked malt.

 

[david_42]

If you can make great extract beer, you can probably make good all-grain beers. Way too many people make the jump before they know how to make even good beer.

Personally, the method I use depends on the style. One reason I still make mostly PM, I can get the makings ahead of time and freeze the cracked grain. I have no desire to buy a mill, storage bins, etc. And then there's the rodent problem. Had to buy a steel garbage can after some critter chewed though the plastic one.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Being worth it is 100% based on your own opinion and goals with brewing. If you like the brew day and don't mind making it longer with more variables than it's worth it. I love all grain much more than extract but I didn't stick with extract brewing for very long to get a rhythm going (2 batches).

Again, completely a personal preference that makes it "worth it".

 

[peripatetic]

+1 on many sentiments already expressed. All-Grain is not inherently "better" -- plenty of people have won competitions with extract/partial mash beers.

AG will take longer, and will require a bit more thought and a bit more equipment.

On the other hand, if you enjoy this hobby, then spending MORE time and MORE thought and having MORE equipment is awesome!

If you are really just in it for a quick(er) and easier process and you are happy with the perfectly drinkable beer you are making already, then AG may not be your bag. It won't magically make the beer better -- you have to put the work in and spend the time yourself to make that happen. In fact, your first few AG batches may turn out worse, but that's all part of the learning process.

 

[kuphish]

If you can make great extract beer, you can probably make good all-grain beers. Way too many people make the jump before they know how to make even good beer.

Very true. I think treating your yeast right (controlling pitching rates and fermentation temperatures) is more important than extract vs. grain.

 

[Dougan]

Very true. I think treating your yeast right (controlling pitching rates and fermentation temperatures) is more important than extract vs. grain.

I agree, there's a lot of reasons to move into all-grain, but when your beer doesn't taste good enough and you don't know why, all-grain probably won't solve the problem.

When you find your recipes just aren't able to get the beer right, or you want to try something new, those are good reasons to take the next step.

 

[MultumInParvo]

I think its basically the difference between making your own crayon drawing instead of coloring between the lines. Extract gives you a frame work, but it hard to go outside of it. All grain gives you a clean sheet. But, this also means more can go wrong.

 

[peripatetic]

I think its basically the difference between making your own crayon drawing instead of coloring between the lines. Extract gives you a frame work, but it hard to go outside of it. All grain gives you a clean sheet. But, this also means more can go wrong.

Does that make Partial Mash like connect-the-dots?

 

[passedpawn]

Book-on-tape vs. read it yourself.

 

[mkorpal]

A well made extract beer will always be better than a poorly made all grain beer.

However, in the right hands, all grain can be better than extract. So, it's not so much the technique, it's the brewer who determines how good the beer will be.

 

[peripatetic]

It should also be mentioned there there is really a whole spectrum in between extract-only brewing and all-grain brewing. You can make significant steps towards more creative flavor-making and more different styles by steeping specialty grains in addition to using extract. You can take another step by steeping/sparging a small quantity of base grains in addition to extract (and possibly specialty grains as well). In fact, many stores sell retail extract kits with specialty grains (that is what I brew most often), and with the proper use of those and other additives (like candi sugar, steamed oak chips, etc.), you really can replicate the flavors of _most_ (but probably not all) all-grain recipes.

Try taking small steps.

 

[Brewin_CRAZY]

Its MUCH better, NUF SAID

Honestly though, you just get a LOT more room to play with a recipe and have fun with what you are doing, including A LOT more ways to screw a brew up. But I recommend the transfer to anyone, if you have to room for the equip and the money its totally worth it, plus you can build an all grain setup for fairly cheap, just search around the forums for ways to build the setup, there are a ton of threads out there.

 

[Bulls Beers]

IMO, all-grain is much better. I made around 10 extract brews and they all had that twangy bitter taste. I switched to all grain. Much better. I would never go back. After my mash is finished and I'm draining that sweet wort..Doesn't get any better than that..My beers taste great now...

 

[user 38649]

My beer got better after I switched to all-grain. Whether or not switching was the reason, I don't know.. But, I like to think I'm all around a better brewer than when I started. The knowledge I accrued while researching the equipment/processes involved with all-grain is more valuable than the $$ I spent to get going.

As someone else posted, it takes longer, but it means I spend more time doing something I love. Seems fair.

When I started I didn't know much about my water chemistry, and probably should have tried a batch of extract with distilled water (I might try that next week, actually)...might have given me better extract results. Doing a full-boil would have helped as well.

Jason

 

[Richabt]

I like the flexibility "all grain" allowed me in brewing. It also allowed me to reduce some of my brewing ingredient cost. For a pale ale I made as an extract kit, Id pay about $25 to $30. That same recipe in "all grain" runs about $14 bucks for me now. It also has a cleaner taste.

 

[ArcaneXor]

It's

|------------------|

this much better!

Seriously, all-grain is cheaper, gives you more more control and more options, but it's also easier to screw up if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[samc]

AG is more enjoyable to me. The same way that I enjoy making my pizza from a yeast starter as opposed to buying pre made dough.

My AG is better than my extract which is a combination of it being fresher, my skill level has improved since I started. I think that I could probably switch back to extract and make a much better beer from it but then I would have all this extra equipment that I would have to stare at. AG certainly gives more flexibility and I have not even scratched the surface of what you can really do as I am kind of locked into a few beer styles at this point.

Either way beats store bought beer.

 

[jschein]

I do both.

All grain is more enjoyable but during the sleet storm we are having now, I am doing a mini-mash. The AG stuff is up in the shed and too much to get during this kind of weather.

I like to get the Chocolate Raspberry Stout from AHS to brew once a month in winter. I don't have a garage or brew shed, uggg.

And the stove doesn't do a 6.25-gallon boil.

 

[Homercidal]

What can I add that hasn't been said before?

Generally AG is better than Extract, but only if the person brewing can already make good extract beers. And the important word is "can". There are no guarantees.

You have more control of the flavor profile, but more stuff to calculate and temps to maintain.

I'd say that if you are confident in your extract ability, and want to get a bit more involved, then AG is a great way to advance your knowledge and get a bit more hands-on. You will not be relying on some other guy to determine your fermentability. You will be able to make a lighter colored beer. You may get more enjoyment out of the brewing process. You will likely have a longer brew day...

 

[carnevoodoo]

You have more control of the flavor profile, but more stuff to calculate and temps to maintain.

Flavor profile is just the start. You also have control of mouthfeel, fermentability, freshness, clarity, and much more. Sure, people can make decent extract beer. But as much as people want to tout the few extract beers that have won medals, all grain beer made correctly will trump extract beer any day of the week.

 

[Synovia]

Flavor profile is just the start. You also have control of mouthfeel, fermentability, freshness, clarity, and much more. Sure, people can make decent extract beer. But as much as people want to tout the few extract beers that have won medals, all grain beer made correctly will trump extract beer any day of the week.

There are a TON of extract beers that have won medals.


A great brewer making extract will make better beer than a good brewer doing AG. Two great brewers, would both make great beer.


This is the same issue as dry vs wet yeast. Both will make fantastic beer, there just are certain beers you can't make with one of them.

 

[carnevoodoo]

This is the same issue as dry vs wet yeast. Both will make fantastic beer, there just are certain beers you can't make with one of them.

No, it really isn't. Everyone knows that while limited, the few good strains of dry yeast are as good as the liquid yeast. That has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about.

Extract is limiting in many ways, one being the level of fermentability. If I want a super dry IPA, I can mash low to convert more starch. If I want it more malty, I mash higher. That right there makes extract a less controllable product.

Color is another issue. You can only get a beer so pale with extract before you're done.

I won't even start on cost, which in my opinion makes it better...

Can extract make good beer? Sure. But the level of control you can get from all grain is still not possible with extract. You can only dial in a beer so far before you run into big brick walls, and there's a reason every great brewer has an all grain rig around.

 

[Stagnasty]

No, it really isn't. Everyone knows that while limited, the few good strains of dry yeast are as good as the liquid yeast. That has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about.

Extract is limiting in many ways, one being the level of fermentability. If I want a super dry IPA, I can mash low to convert more starch. If I want it more malty, I mash higher. That right there makes extract a less controllable product.

Color is another issue. You can only get a beer so pale with extract before you're done.

I won't even start on cost, which in my opinion makes it better...

Can extract make good beer? Sure. But the level of control you can get from all grain is still not possible with extract. You can only dial in a beer so far before you run into big brick walls, and there's a reason every great brewer has an all grain rig around.

Don't know as I really agree with you here. I can get mine as pale as ya want it,,,, It cost me around $6 for 6 gals,,,, maybe $6.50 for a darker.

But then again, Im not an extract brewer either, I get my stuff from the grocercy store.

 

[DRoyLenz]

Don't know as I really agree with you here. I can get mine as pale as ya want it,,,, It cost me around $6 for 6 gals,,,, maybe $6.50 for a darker.

But then again, Im not an extract brewer either, I get my stuff from the grocercy store.

Care to share a little more detail what you mean by "I get my stuff from the grocery store"? Inquiring minds would like to know...

 

[Stagnasty]

Care to share a little more detail what you mean by "I get my stuff from the grocery store"? Inquiring minds would like to know...

Sure, I use 1/2 bottle of molasses, 10lbs of table sugar, a pack of bakers yeast

I let it primary for 4 weeks, bottle it for 3 weeks, yeilds 9.5% and tastes great!! I think, but then again I liked light beer before i started making my own,,, ya know

 

[Ksosh]

Not getting into the debate, but here's my personal take on it, as a relatively recent convert to AG after doing some extract brews:

You can go to Dell, 'customize' a computer, add a monitor/UPS/etc. buy it as a package, and have it shipped directly to your door. It'll run Windows/Office/Photoshop just fine.

OR, you can buy the parts and build your own computer to your own personal specs. Sometimes this is the only way to fine tune exactly what you want in your machine, and it might be cheaper than buying exactly what you want from someone else, but might take more time.

So, both can produce excellent results, just like extract vs. grain, but you can tweak grain recipes easier than extract, and it'll cost less in supplies (but more in start up materials). Once you go all grain, though, it's really hard to go back to extract (IMO).