how long before I have to dump unbottled beer?

[jacobitti]

OK, so I started an Irish Red for this past St Patrick's Day and never got around to bottling it. The beer has been kept at around 70 degrees in a capped car buoy since March. Never open the top since I transferred it to the secondary. Is the beer still OK to drink/bottle/keg, or do I need to cut my loses and shed some tears over dumped beer?????

 

[grampamark]

If there’s nothing funky looking growing/floating in the carboy, and it smells good, taste it. If it tastes good, bottle it. If it doesn’t look/smell/taste good, dump it.

 

[cmac62]

1+ for mark

 

[Qhrumphf]

Depending on how much headspace is in that carboy, could be fairly oxidized. Fortunately it was racked off the yeast, so autolysis shouldn't be an issue.

As said, only thing to do is taste it.

And if you're bottle conditioning, I'd consider adding more yeast when you bottle just as insurance. There's *probably* enough still in there but better safe than sorry.

 

[jacobitti]

Thanks, never thought about the yeast part.....

 

[mongoose33]

I'm going to guess that whatever yeast is in there is dead. It certainly would have settled out by now, so you'll need to add some for the bottle conditioning.

 

[tellyho]

Also alcohol content will help. Above 8% might even be better after a year. Doubt your Irish red is there, though.

 

[kh54s10]

I'm going to guess that whatever yeast is in there is dead. It certainly would have settled out by now, so you'll need to add some for the bottle conditioning.

Once bottled a beer that I neglected for almost a year. Didn't remember to think about the yeast. It carbonated fine and was surprisingly good. Good, in this case was that it didn't taste bad. Wasn't really that great either. Just meh! Still better than a Coors Light.

 

[cmac62]

Ive left beers in primary at room temps for 2+ months without any autolysis. I'm not sure it is much of an issue on the home brew scale, but i'm no expert either.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Ive left beers in primary at room temps for 2+ months without any autolysis. I'm not sure it is much of an issue on the home brew scale, but i'm no expert either.

I taste a lot of it judging homebrew comps. Most seem to hear the "rancid" or "burnt rubber" characters which are the absolute extreme end. Even Palmer is guilty of that nonsense. Those are extreme cases, not the common more subtle ones.

Rather, when yeast start autolyzing you'll start getting savory notes. Brothy, meaty, soy saucy, etc. And it's VERY common in homebrew.

But because people don't get the worst case they think it's not happening at all. Homebrewers do this with every flaw under the sun (but oxidation the other big one).

If monitor the pH of your beer it's easy to spot before you can even taste it. And you'd be surprised how fast it can happen, especially if the temps are higher (I see it most in Belgian styles).

 

[kh54s10]

I taste a lot of it judging homebrew comps. Most seem to hear the "rancid" or "burnt rubber" characters which are the absolute extreme end. Even Palmer is guilty of that nonsense. Those are extreme cases, not the common more subtle ones.

Rather, when yeast start autolyzing you'll start getting savory notes. Brothy, meaty, soy saucy, etc. And it's VERY common in homebrew.

But because people don't get the worst case they think it's not happening at all. Homebrewers do this with every flaw under the sun (but oxidation the other big one).

If monitor the pH of your beer it's easy to spot before you can even taste it. And you'd be surprised how fast it can happen, especially if the temps are higher (I see it most in Belgian styles).

You apparently have a very trained palate.

I have left beers on the yeast for several months quite a few times and almost a year for 2 batches. I got none of those flavors. They might have been there but not to an extent that I could taste them.

And though I suspect my beers are oxidized, I have never had one bad enough that I even noticed any difference first to last. And I have never seen one get darker with age.

As always YMMV.

 

[cmac62]

Qhrumphf thanks for the reply. I'll have to check for those meaty flavors. I don't know if I have tasted any of those, but most of my beers are off the yeast within a couple of weeks. If I ferment and serve in the same keg would crashing and cold storage lessen the chance of autolysis? Thanks again.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Rather, when yeast start autolyzing you'll start getting savory notes. Brothy, meaty, soy saucy, etc. And it's VERY common in homebrew.

But because people don't get the worst case they think it's not happening at all. Homebrewers do this with every flaw under the sun (but oxidation the other big one).

If monitor the pH of your beer it's easy to spot before you can even taste it. And you'd be surprised how fast it can happen, especially if the temps are higher (I see it most in Belgian styles).

Do you have any kind of expected timeframe to start experiencing these savory flavors in a bottle carbonated beer stored at ~65-70°F?
I bottle when fermentation completes.

I have tasted meaty and soy sauce flavors in commercial beers but never my own.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Do you have any kind of expected timeframe to start experiencing these savory flavors in a bottle carbonated beer stored at ~65-70°F?
I bottle when fermentation completes.

I have tasted meaty and soy sauce flavors in commercial beers but never my own.

If a beer is properly brewed and packaged, and not left on a primary yeast cake, I'd say a good long time. A few years, probably. And in those cases it can play nicely with oxidative notes from cellaring, until it doesn't any more.

If you bottle with a crapton of yeast, probably a lot faster.

 

[kh54s10]

In my experience, up to almost a year in primary, a few months in a keg, and close to 3 years in bottles I have never detected any of these autolysis flavors.

From everything that I have read, it is much more of something to do with the yeast sitting under 30 ft or more of beer (pressure of depth) in a large commercial setting that is almost impossible to happen in a homebrew setting.

I feel it is not something a homebrewer needs to worry about.

But I am not a BJCP Judge.

 

[HB_ATL73]

If a beer is properly brewed and packaged, and not left on a primary yeast cake, I'd say a good long time. A few years, probably. And in those cases it can play nicely with oxidative notes from cellaring, until it doesn't any more.

If you bottle with a crapton of yeast, probably a lot faster.

Thank you for finally explaining what happened to a stout i brewed a while back. Bottle conditioned and at about a year it turned into 12oz of soy sauce!

Wow

 

[HB_ATL73]

In my experience, up to almost a year in primary, a few months in a keg, and close to 3 years in bottles I have never detected any of these autolysis flavors.

From everything that I have read, it is much more of something to do with the yeast sitting under 30 ft or more of beer (pressure of depth) in a large commercial setting that is almost impossible to happen in a homebrew setting.

I feel it is not something a homebrewer needs to worry about.

But I am not a BJCP Judge.

I have had bottles up to 4 years and hadnt detected it either.. until i had a stout turn into soy sauce about a year later. Who knows how many other variables contributed to this but it happened. Thats the only time that has happened- i rarely will bottle anymore anyway.

 

[Qhrumphf]

95% of the homebrew I've cellared over the years has been wild stuff, and IIRC Brett will actually feed on autolyzing Sacch, so it doesn't show the same way. But I've had clean beers sit in my cellar upwards of 4 years before I start picking it up. And at that point it can be hard to separate from the oxidation. Bottle conditioned/unfiltered clean beers upwards of 10 years old, never fail to get it, commercial or otherwise. And without the scavenging from the yeast, filtered stuff doesn't last that long anyway.

In young beer, the principal offenders are Saisons, especially with Dupont yeast and it's stalling tantrums, where people leave a beer at 95F for a month+ on the yeast until it finishes attenuating.

 

[jacobitti]

So, I'm going to pitch another package of 05 this weekend just to see what happens. If I get some action, I'll let it ride and bottle for Christmas.

 

[kh54s10]

The suggestion of adding yeast was the idea that all the yeast present was dead so you would need yeast for bottle conditioning. I would add the yeast, maybe not a whole pack, I don't know how much, and bottle right away.

I doubt you will get any "action" unless your fermentation didn't finish first time around.