How clear does beer have to be?

[AleHead69]

I just finished my first 5 gallon batch of ale. O.G. 1.060, F.G. 1.011 in about a week and a half. I used my own batch of yeast that I propagated over a 2 month period using an air pump, nutrients and table sugar in a 3 gallon glass carboy. I mixed WLP023 (Burton Ale yeast), Fleischmann's bakers yeast and dregs from a six pack of Franziskaner Naturtrub Weissbier. Through a long and complicated process of nitrogen and sugar starvation & osmotic,alcohol and temperature stress I got some encouraging results and generated over a half gallon of liquid yeast. When I racked from my primary today to my secondary the beer was a solid brown/orange color and smelled delicious. I was wondering how clear should it be before I can bottle it? Also I'm not a huge fan of using fining agents if I don't have to. Thanks for listening and Sláinte.

Ingredients:

6lbs. Maris Otter malt syrup
2.5lbs. Plain Wheat DME
10oz. rahr Red Wheat
5oz. Floor Malted Maris Otter malt
3oz. Flaked Oats
4oz. Flaked Rice
1oz. NZ Pacific Gem hop pellets (bittering)
1oz. UK Kent Goldings (aroma)
1oz. UK Kent Goldings (dry hopped)

 

[aStoutObserver]

It doesn't have to be any level of clear. Just make sure that the beer is done fermenting.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Make sure your FG is stable over time and you are good to go. I would recommend checking it and then waiting for about 2-3 days and see what it reads. If it reads the same then you are good to go.

 

[d3track]

Are you trying to do Sati without the juniper branches?

 

[AleHead69]

Are you trying to do Sati without the juniper branches?

Whats Sati?

 

[Gavin C]

I'm curious as to your thought process behind the 2 months of work to get yeast. Not seeing the logic I'm afraid. Bakers yeast will go back in suspension at the slightest bit of turbulence. You still used a commercial yeast for this brew? You mention Wyeast. Were you looking to do some sort of spontaneous fermentation that didn't pan out. I'd love to know more.

Clear beer is what I shoot for. Many folks are not bothered by haze. Nor should they be. Clarity is certainly of no importance if the beer tastes poor. What concerns do you have about fining agents? Allergens, vegetarian concerns or other?

 

[d3track]

Whats Sati?

Missed the "h"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahti

I was trying to figure out the bread yeast.

 

[AleHead69]

I'm curious as to your thought process behind the 2 months of work to get yeast. Not seeing the logic I'm afraid. Bakers yeast will go back in suspension at the slightest bit of turbulence. You still used a commercial yeast for this brew? You mention Wyeast. Were you looking to do some sort of spontaneous fermentation that didn't pan out. I'd love to know more.

Clear beer is what I shoot for. Many folks are not bothered by haze. Nor should they be. Clarity is certainly of no importance if the beer tastes poor. What concerns do you have about fining agents? Allergens, vegetarian concerns or other?

When it comes to the yeast my aim was hybridization. Sexual fusion between two different Saccharomyces haploid cells to create new diploid cells that is triggered through nitrogen and sugar starvation. Pumping in air generates biomass of the resulting hybrids (in theory). I wanted to create my own little house strain. Also WLP023 is a White Labs strain.
I used to make wine using yeast propagated from banana peels and had wonderful results but would never try spontaneous fermentation when brewing beer because I feared it would end up like a lambic.

When it comes to fining agents, I used them alot at first when making wine (Super-Kleer K.C. was my favorite). Then I made another batch and didn't use fining agents and the wine seemed to have a bit more body and flavor. After that I became concerned with stripping out flavor and body. Just a personal preference of mine.

 

[AleHead69]

Missed the "h"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahti

I was trying to figure out the bread yeast.

Now that I read that article it does sound pretty similar, lol.
My beer luckily has no isoamyl acetate smell and I think I put in a healthy amount of hops to resemble an english style beer. It smells similar to Newcastle to be honest. I used bread yeast in my yeast cultures because it has a good tolerance to alcohol and its a workhorse. Plus bakers yeast as we know it today was originaly isolated from bread leavened with yeast used for brewing beer (probably krausen). So I figured what the hell, why not

 

[rrhoads]

If you are going without fining agents( I personally use gelatin in all my kegs + cold conditioning), get the beer as close to freezing as possible, and wait. Cold temps+time=clear beer. Not necessary to drink clear beer though. As others have said, just make sure it is done fermenting before cold conditioning.

 

[Calder]

I'm suspecting the bakers yeast is not settling very quickly.

Too much yeast in the bottle will cause long-term storage problems (a little is good, a lot is bad). If you don't mind drinking cloudy beer, and have no plans to keep any of the bottles for more than a few months, go ahead and bottle.

If it were me I think I would try and get the majority of yeast to settle before bottling. You can cold crash. use gelatin (cold or at room temp will help drop the yeast), or just give it more time undisturbed.

 

[Kharnynb]

as long as you don't need to chew, it's not too bad :rockin:

 

[AleHead69]

I'm suspecting the bakers yeast is not settling very quickly.

Too much yeast in the bottle will cause long-term storage problems (a little is good, a lot is bad). If you don't mind drinking cloudy beer, and have no plans to keep any of the bottles for more than a few months, go ahead and bottle.

If it were me I think I would try and get the majority of yeast to settle before bottling. You can cold crash. use gelatin (cold or at room temp will help drop the yeast), or just give it more time undisturbed.

My yeast has changed over the 2 months or so of propagating it. It has become extremely resilient. It likes the heat, it likes the cold. Right now my starter is being stored in the fridge in a glass gallon jug and its still reproducing slowly. I fear cold crashing isn't going to work, and I don't have an extra fridge to utilize to cold crash my brew anyway. I personally have no problem with cloudy beer. I've tried some cloudy beers that were unbelievable but the downside was they made me a little gassy. No big deal. I have a few worries about fining agents. Will the finings slightly strip the body & flavor of the finished product and will I have enough viable yeast left in the beer to sufficiently carbonate it? If I use a fining agent like gelatin to drop out the yeast and clear it up wont I have to add a little bit of fresh yeast to ensure proper carbonation and wont that in and of itself cloud the beer up again?

 

[boicutt]

Unless you're entering a contest for a certain style that needs to be clear to win, don't bother with it That's my two cents.

I'm lucky to get clear beers with the process I use, but Besides whirfloc, I don't use anything else.

 

[Opiate42]

How clear does beer have to be?

If murky as a muddy pond in a thunderstorm: it's beer
If perfectly clear as a summer's day: it's beer
Anywhere in between: it's beer

 

[feinbera]

If I use a fining agent like gelatin to drop out the yeast and clear it up wont I have to add a little bit of fresh yeast to ensure proper carbonation and wont that in and of itself cloud the beer up again?

The wonderful thing about yeast is that they make more of themselves... even if you get 99.99% of the cells to drop out, the handful that remain will reproduce and gobble up that priming sugar just fine. It might take a little longer, but, then, I'm guessing patience isn't a problem for somebody who spent two months breeding yeast before he even brewed the beer.

...now, that being said, it takes a lot of yeast to actually change the flavor of beer; a bit of haze is entirely a personal preference, so, if it doesn't bug you, don't sweat it.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

as long as you don't need to chew, it's not too bad :rockin:

If it's not Zima, its too cloudy.

Joking aside, beer only needs to be as clear as you want it to be. I've had a belgian wit go completely clear in less than 6 weeks in the bottle and no chill haze would show up, no fining agents. Just leave it, those bad boys will drop out quick. (in a way I almost have issue with the fact that a lot of my beer goes clear super fast when I am expecting a hazy cloudy beer)

 

[AleHead69]

I checked on my secondary today and at room temp. its clearing wonderfully thank the good lord. I tasted it and to my dismay its a bit too dry. My yeast chewed up the sugars so fast that there isn't any malty flavor left to level out the bitterness of the hops (a bit on the boozy side). Should I prime with honey or dark brown sugar to maybe impart a little flavor considering both honey and dark brown sugar has a somewhat malty flavor? Any ideas are welcome.

 

[MindenMan]

Even though you haven't posted much, I would guess a noo-be wouldn't tackle a project like you just did. Aging might take some of the edge off of the "boozy" character, and my suggestion to add malty-ness would be to make your own "malt caramel". Making your own malt syrup (extract) and boiling it until it gets thickened (and darker) will add a lot of malt flavor w/o adding a lot of fermentable sugar. There are many beers that use this technique for the same reason. I don't know if you could add water to store bought extract and get the same results or not...

 

[AleHead69]

Even though you haven't posted much, I would guess a noo-be wouldn't tackle a project like you just did. Aging might take some of the edge off of the "boozy" character, and my suggestion to add malty-ness would be to make your own "malt caramel". Making your own malt syrup (extract) and boiling it until it gets thickened (and darker) will add a lot of malt flavor w/o adding a lot of fermentable sugar. There are many beers that use this technique for the same reason. I don't know if you could add water to store bought extract and get the same results or not...

I tend to go all or nothing with everything I do. I'm like a mad scientist and experiment with everything. I'm going to take your advice into consideration but I have to do some research first to do it properly. Don't get me wrong my beer isn't undrinkable its just missing that malty flavor and sweetness that makes a good ale. All I know is this stuff is going to knock my socks off and next time when using my yeast I'm only letting it ferment a week before putting it in the secondary. Its like my experiment resulted in a breed of turbo yeast.

 

[Calder]

Even though you haven't posted much, I would guess a noo-be wouldn't tackle a project like you just did. Aging might take some of the edge off of the "boozy" character, and my suggestion to add malty-ness would be to make your own "malt caramel". Making your own malt syrup (extract) and boiling it until it gets thickened (and darker) will add a lot of malt flavor w/o adding a lot of fermentable sugar. There are many beers that use this technique for the same reason. I don't know if you could add water to store bought extract and get the same results or not...

I would be very surprised if it was unfermentable. Where did you get that information from?

 

[MindenMan]

I don't remember the style off the top of my head, but a few years ago I brewed something where I took part of the wort out of the "main" kettle and boiled it down to a thick syrup before adding it back to the rest of the wort. It added a ton of maltiness, and didn't ferment all the way out. It was a BIG beer, an RIS or a Really Heavy Scottish Ale type. If I find my notes, I will post the recipe I used that came from the internet.

 

[AleHead69]

Well I said damn the torpedoes and bottled by brew today (Got 48 beers out of it and left about an inch of headspace). It was clear enough for me. If I had let it sit in secondary any longer my F.G. would probably be 1.008. I primed with 3/4 of a cup of "Sugar in the Raw" and a couple tablespoons of unsulfured blackstrap molasses. I'm going to let my two cases of ale condition for about 4-6 weeks and see what happens. God willing theres no bottle bombs, cap blowoffs or gushers. Thank you everyone for your advice and wish me luck. I wish you all luck in your beer brewing endeavors.

Sláinte!

 

[bja]

If I had let it sit in secondary any longer my F.G. would probably be 1.008.

That's a good reason not to bottle it yet.

 

[MindenMan]

I too hope you get no glass grenades. I have had my share, and scary is an understatement. I literally turned away from the bottles, and three steps away a bottle blew. Had I been standing there three seconds later I may have had to go to the E.R. I suggest if one bottle blows, put them all in a covered container with a heavy lid.

 

[AleHead69]

That's a good reason not to bottle it yet.

I was more concerned with the gravity going down to 1.008 over an extended period of time in secondary like in the process of bottle conditioning. It wasn't showing any signs of fermenting anymore. Zero bubbles in the airlock for days, The temperature inside the fermenter dropped to room temp when before it was practically body temp in there and the F.G. looked stable. I have the bottles boxed up in the cardboard cases and taped shut so on the off chance they do detonate I should have some protection...I think. Just gotta cross my fingers and pray for the best.

 

[BreezyBrew]

If it doesn't look like Bud Light then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Riot]

Going to echo the people saying it only needs to be clear enough to make you happy. If you are concerned about clarity pick up a cheap fridge off of Craigslist or something. A few days in the low 30s will do wonders for beer clarity pretty much every time. Adding gelatin to the batch at that temp will get it crystal clear in that timeframe if you're really attached to appearance

 

[AleHead69]

Update: Just tasted my first beer after 1 week of conditioning and it was unbelievable. Just enough body, just enough hoppiness, blonde color, lots of carbonation but in a good way, good head retention and zero boozy flavor. Everything I wanted and nothing I feared. The flavor reminds me of Amstel a little bit. I can barely tell this isn't a commercial beer and in a few weeks I probably wont. Thanks everyone for your advice. :rockin:

 

[AleHead69]

I know this is a necro bump, please forgive me. I just drank the last 2 beers a few days ago. Damn they were good. The one thing I'll do differently next time is lower the gravity, those brews were so strong I would feel a slight buzz after 1 beer. I took a case of it on a camping trip to Vermont, I almost fell in the camp fire twice.