Horrible smell/taste - 3 batches in a row

[doowroh]

Jello.

I'm pretty new, and I think I'm doing something consistently wrong, but I can't put my finger on it. I have some clues, but I'm still too new to know what to do about it (aka how to make it stop happening).

I've brewed 4 batches. I will provide as much detail as possible for each one without making it too ominous.

1st batch: 1 gallon local LHBS AG - Canadian Blonde
OG: I don't know.
FG: I don't know.
Boiled: 60 minutes
Primary: 2 weeks.
Yeast: Dry Ale Yeast - dry pitched after ice bath
Secondary: none.
Cleanser: dish soap and warm water
Sanitizer: Purple bleachy powder - rinsed off
Priming Sugar: Boiled 1/4 cup water + 1 oz. dextrose - poured dry, directly into 1 gallon fermenter and then shaken.
Smell: Good - smelled like a decent beer.
Taste: Good - tasted like a good beer, but not a great beer.
Summary: My first brew and I had no idea what I was doing.


2nd batch: 5 Gallon Cooper's Wheat (LME + 300g DME)
OG: I don't know.
FG: I don't know.
Boiled: This claimed to be a no-boil kit and I believed it.
Primary: 2 weeks.
Secondary: no.
Yeast: Can't remember which kind, dry pitched after ice bath
Cleanser: soap and warm water
Sanitizer: StarSan
Priming Sugar: Boiled 1/4 cup water + 5 oz. dextrose - swirled into another carboy with primary racked on top of the sugar.
Smell: Decent in the primary, bad at bottling time.
Taste: Didn't taste the primary, initial taste after bottling was bad, it was barely tolerable after the initial smell subsided. Still the same as of today.
Summary: Still didn't know what I was doing, but the smell and taste made me want to dump the beer.


3rd batch: 5 gallon Brewer's Best American Cream Ale (LME + DME)
OG: 1.042
FG: 1.008?
Boiled: 60 minutes - one boilover.
Primary: 2 weeks.
Secondary: no.
Yeast: Lallemand, with what I hope was a decent DME starter. Pitched after an ice bath.
Cleanser: dish soap and water
Sanitizer: StarSan
Priming Sugar: Boiled 1/4 of water + 5 oz. priming sugar - swirled into another carboy with primary racked on top of the sugar.
Smell: Good in the primary, bad/horrible at at bottling time. It is the same smell as before. Still the same today.
Taste: Tasted slightly scorched after the boil, tasted better/good after fermentation. Initial taste after bottling was bad, it was tolerable after the initial smell subsided. Still the same as of today.
Summary: I tried to make this work, but I still want to dump this beer.


4th batch: 5 Brewer's Best Dunkleweizen (LME + steeping grains)
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.020
Boiled: 60 minutes, no boilovers.
Primary: 2 weeks.
Secondary: no.
Yeast: Dry pitched after using a copper coil wort cooler
Cleanser: PBW
Sanitizer: StarSan
Priming Sugar: 5 oz. dextrose mixed with ~1/2 cup of fermented beer, boiled gently for 15 minutes - swirled into another carboy with primary racked on top.
Smell: Good in the primary, as soon as I mixed the priming beer + dextrose, that "SMELL" became instantly apparent to me. It wasn't even mixed with the 5 gallons of beer yet. Being optimistic, I racked the beer on top and into another carboy.
Taste: Tasted slightly scorched immediately after the boil. Tasted pretty good during late fermentation. Initial taste after bottling was bad, but it's mostly the smell. It's still the same bad smell I've had on the last three batches.
Summary: I researched the hell out of this one. Kept everything as clean and sanitary as I could, but the smell. Oh, the smell is horrible. I am paranoid that I'm going to want to dump this beer.


So basically, I've got this same smell/taste in the last three batches, and I don't know what the smell is. It's bad. I know that it's something I'm doing, and now it feels like it's happening around the stage where my dextrose priming sugar is mixed with the beer. I strive to use clean/sanitized stainless equipment everywhere. Come to think of it, I've used the same stainless sauce pan to mix the priming sugar every time. This time was just the only time that I mixed it with the beer outside of the carboy, which gave me the opportunity to smell it...

I don't know what to do. I'm half tempted to give up on this stuff, but if I can just figure this out I'll have something to keep me motivated.

I know smells are tough. You can't measure them, and what smells one way to one person can smell differently to another.

On an interesting side note, when I open a 500mL bottle of Hacker-Pschorr Hefeweizen (swing top bottle) I get a momentary subtle smell that is the exact same. It goes away and is replaced by the awesomeness that is beer almost instantly.

I took one of my bottled Brewer's Best Cream Ales to my LHBS guy and the first thing he did after choking on it and nearly spitting it out was that it was infected. Clean Clean Clean he said. Fine. But this time it happened during the beer/priming sugar mixture/boil, and NOT before (based on my taste/smell samples during this last batch). I just really want to get this one figured out.

Any thoughts?

- David.

 

[madcore]

I got just two cents to toss in one why dish soap? Was told never to use it die to it can leave some behind that would ruin my beer.

And two you taste during fermentation? You might be allowing too much air to get in and contaminating the batches or what ever you use to get your sample isn't completely sterile. Personally I set my fermentation and leave it for two weeks min. Not even open or anything. Only opening I do is to remove and I can take a sample them to get fg. But I know others open some just my two cents


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[flars]

My first thought is that soap residue is present in some of your equipment.
Is the water you are using untreated well water and not run through a softener?

 

[doowroh]

In this last batch I tasted the samples that I took to measure the specific gravity, so it was towards the end of fermentation. The carboy/airlock wasn't opened at all during the first two weeks.

As for the dish soap, it was all I had access to as a new brewer. For this last brew I used PBW and StarSan exclusively. I've had the same smell/taste for the last three batches, so I doubt that dish soap is an influence for this last batch. I have not tasted it since bottling, but I can assure you that the smell is the same.

- David.

 

[madcore]

Your fermentation bucket might be infected. If you cleaned it with soap maybe even scrubbed it the infection can hid in there. My best advise is take a brew class were you can see someone else that's what I did when I started and gave me a lot of onsite and solved questions I didn't know I had. Wouldn't hurt to even ask you homebrew store about brewing a batch with them. I know mine would be game.


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[TravisT]

Your fermentation bucket might be infected.

+1

when I first started I had a bunch of bad batches that tasted like vinegar and dog crap, i solved the problem by tossing out everything that was plastic that had contact with the beer. buy a new fermenting bucket and racking cane/hoses for sure. good luck.

look up you closest home brewing club. you can brew with other people and get advice/help. cheers

 

[Aonghus]

You referred to a scorched taste more than once in your tastings. Perhaps you need to add the LME later in your boil?

One question: Did you keep your bottles out of the light while they conditioned?

Also, out of excessive paranoia, you might consider replacing all soft parts (hoses, 3 piece airlock and bucket).

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I would second the infected bucket idea.

Also... what water do you use? Bottled? Tap? Well? Toilet?

 

[freisste]

My first thought was oxidation because of your description of adding priming sugar.

 

[Beernik]

Is it skunky? Light hitting your carboy/bucket/bottles or is it being kept in a dark place?

 

[masskrug]

I would second the infected bucket idea.

Also... what water do you use? Bottled? Tap? Well? Toilet?

Toilet. With the blue disk, 2000 Flushes.

 

[MikePote]

I would replace the fermenter and try to find a homebrew club so you can get feedback from real people who can taste and smell it.

 

[hehawbrew]

I agree with fermentation buckets and replacing anything you make have scrubbed with soap.

If you used a sponge with a scrubbing pad on it, it could have dug into your plastic, creating little places for bacteria.

Was your one gallon batch made in a glass carboy?


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[cobrem]

What temperatures are you fermenting at? Not sure if this is the issue here, but poor temp control can really goof up a beer.

 

[fuelish]

I don't see soap as an issue unless equipment wasn't thoroughly rinsed/sanitized after the fact. Folks stress out, but this shat ain't rocket science....been done for countless centuries before us modern folk

 

[atoughram]

I've still got some of my original fermenter buckets - others would say I'm crazy for using them, but I've got a cider going in a bucket that has to be close to ten years old. I bet I've used it to wash cars a time or two...

I've always used straight bleach in my plastic buckets as a cleanser and sanitizer. Works well for me. I now ferment beers in a 17gal induction tank, and I dont want to pour that much bleachy water on the ground so I spray it down with Starsan. Try soaking it with half a cup of bleach for an hour or so before you brew another batch.

 

[TheBrewingBear]

This is a tough one. I went thru a string of funky batches after my first few batches got me hooked on the hobby.

We could better help you if you can describe the smell and/or taste. Certain problems tend to be caused by certain mistakes.

IMHO, people like to blame infections for anything funky. It could be that you're missing some details on your processes. Ask an experienced brewer to help you on your next batch. He or she might catch something you may have overlooked.

Most buckets, carboys, and siphons can be cleaned up with a hot PBW soak. Starsan or a bleach solution should sanitze them well enough. Replace the plastic tubing -- it's cheap and expendable.

Good luck on your next batch!