Hops for ESB

[ericbw]

Are Fuggles or Styrian Goldings really that hard to get Stateside that you have to bother with alternatives? By all accounts Willamette is quite close but just because there's a bloodline doesn't mean they will be the same - Citra has Goldings ancestry but you wouldn't say their profiles are at all similar.

And if you want aroma from British beers - that's the job of the yeast. That's not to say dry hopping doesn't have a place in British beers - it most certainly does - but if you aren't getting yeast esters in the aroma then it isn't British beer. Don't ferment too warm - Marstons pitch at 57F and let the wort rise to 66F. Obvious choices for an ESB are 1968/WLP002, the Fullers yeast, and 1768 from Young's (seems to be a seasonal from Wyeast?).

No, none of them are hard to get here. But for the money, especially for bittering and flavor, Willamette is a good hop. And if the discussion is "should I use Cascade in a British-style bitter?" then Willamette is a better choice that comes from the same place as Cascade.

I didn't suggest Willamette because of it's blood line, but because it is similar (but American).

British bitter is like a hamburger - a "thing" that's the way it is for a reason, honed over decades and millions of serves.

That's not exactly how beer evolves. It's more that beer made in a certain place has certain qualities, driven by ingredients and techniques. No one set out to make the perfect Burton ale. It just so happens that Burton (or where ever) makes beer that tastes a certain way.

 

[user 246304]

Well there's the thing, in my head ESBs are so closely associated with London and Fullers in particular that I don't really think of them outside that. I guess the BJCP would put northern beers as ESBs that are stronger than best strength, but to me they're something a bit different, they're not as malt-led as their southern counterparts, more bitter and generally drier.

But for ordinary bitter and best - now you're talking! I must admit I've never used 1469 myself, although it's on the list for some yeast trials I'm planning - my LHBS only stocks dry yeast so I've been experimenting with other aspects of my beer so far. But Tim Taylors makes some of the classic Yorkshire bitters and a Yorkshire best would be my desert-island beer, so it should be up my street! In fact I wonder if it could be quite closely related to Conan - lots of esters and stone fruits and like the Burton yeasts it's meant to be not the greatest floccer.

Excellent. Thanks very much for a great perspective, Northern. - Paul

 

[khannon]

Will Challenger lead to good results in ESB if used for flavor and aroma additions as well as for bittering? It is defined as spicy, but its spicy characteristic seems to go to waste if only used for the earlier bittering additions. What results might be expected from going 100% with Challenger?

Going out on a limb, Sterling might be interesting here as well. A quite spicy Saaz cross, with Challenger like alpha acid levels.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

So, one of my favorite ESBs is Bluebird bitter, and it uses challenger hops exclusively, I have brewed a clone twice with
90% Maris Otter
7.5% crystal 10
2.5% flaked oats
I keep the mash temp @ ~152..

and for 11 gal to the fermentor
1oz challenger @ 60
.5oz @30
2.5oz @flameout
have done with wyeast 1968 and a starter stepped up a few times from a ridgeway bluebird bitter.
ferment at ~65 with a step up to 68-70F towards the end to clean up/finish.

Has come out spot on and kegs of it last very little time in my house, though my kid's friends have determined that the beer here is free even if it comes with listening to me talk.

Pours nice, and is *almost* indistinguishable for the original
Kevin

 

[user 246304]

Absolutely love Bluebird myself, and about 5th down the line, worked on a clone myself. Nice job!

 

[kevin58]

If you follow Ron Pattinson's blog you will find out that in his research of historic brewing log books, English breweries have used American hops as far back as the 1800's. Unfortunately they didn't often record the variety.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Will have been mostly Cluster, as it accounted for well over 90% of US acreage for much of the 20th century. The East Coast had their own hops that are almost forgotten now, and usually that happens for good reason but a reasonable amount made it to the UK from the East Coast in the 19th century.

But it was for bittering, as the "American taste" was perceived as a definite negative. So yes there was some use of US hops in British beers back in the 19th century, but that's not a justification in itself to throw a ton of Citra in something and call it a classic British beer.

Noone in the UK would ever think of Bluebird as an ESB - apart from the fact that ESB just isn't a recognised style here to speak of; inasmuch as it is, it's from London, the opposite end of England to Bluebird territory. But Bluebird's only 3.6%, a classic standard bitter strength.

 

[user 246304]

With a name like Bluebird, it has to be an ordinary.