Hop Stand temperatures and times

[philosofool]

Okay, thanks for the input and links, all.

I pitched my first beer using a hop stand Thursday morning. Here's the recipe:

8.5 pounds 2-row
3 pounds maris otter
.5 pounds Great Western 15L

1.25 oz. Chinook, 60 min
1 oz. Citra, 45 min. stand @ 160 degrees
1 oz. Azacca, same stand
1 oz. Chinook, same stand
(Dry hops--plan the same as the stand, but awaiting primary fermentation to decide for sure.)

1.4L starter of Wyeast 1217-PC West Coast IPA; sitting at 65 degrees.

Mashed at 148 (was not my target--150 was--but I tend to like my IPA with less body, so maltodextrine if needed, but maybe I like without). 60 minute boil. Ran 1.25 gallons through plate chiller into sanitize fermenter, added back to wort. Stand at 160 (average) for 45 minutes.

O.G. was a little low, 1.058, for 5.25 gallons.

 

[ncbrewer]

Assuming it was covered during the hop stand, I'll bet you get lots of hop flavor and aroma. Please post the results.

 

[philosofool]

A beastly fermentation of West Coast IPA yeast, and I dry hopped last night.

Large tropical fruity, citrus, and pine aromas from hops--cleaner, less "fresh bag of hops" than dry hopping creates, pleasant. I'm a little worried it's slightly catty, but I never judge a beer to harshly before it's done. The hop stand defintely added to the beer.

The beer isn't bitter enough, but I was drinking IPA an hour or so before I took the gravity and it may have numbed me to some of that.

 

[tgmartin000]

I do hop stands for all my ipa's and pale ales. After some tinkering, I think I prefer about 2 oz at flame out, steep for about 20 minutes, then chill to 165, add another 2 oz, steep another 20 min. This is in addition to 5 and 10 minute additions.

I've also found that my beers that are all late hopped aren't bitter enough for my taste. I think you still need a large bittering charge.

Lately I've noticed a lot of pro ipas that have a large bittering charge then nothing until flame out. One of these days I'm going to try that.

 

[cantrell00]

I do hop stands for all my ipa's and pale ales. After some tinkering, I think I prefer about 2 oz at flame out, steep for about 20 minutes, then chill to 165, add another 2 oz, steep another 20 min. This is in addition to 5 and 10 minute additions.

I've also found that my beers that are all late hopped aren't bitter enough for my taste. I think you still need a large bittering charge.

Lately I've noticed a lot of pro ipas that have a large bittering charge then nothing until flame out. One of these days I'm going to try that.

I have and it is now my preferred method... I am now doing a FWH for flavor & a 60 minute bittering to cover the IBU that I am shooting for.. Then a 2-3 oz flameout & chilled to 175 for 30 min & then another 2-3 oz addition for another 30. Finally a dry hop of 2-3 oz.

This is for a 5-6 gallon batch.

The most recent was a chinook FWH, CTZ bittering, chinook + cascade flame out & whirlpool stand & a centennial dry hop.

 

[philosofool]

I've also found that my beers that are all late hopped aren't bitter enough for my taste. I think you still need a large bittering charge.

Lately I've noticed a lot of pro ipas that have a large bittering charge then nothing until flame out. One of these days I'm going to try that.

I have made quite a few IPAs that had only a bittering charge and dry hops and have found that it makes great IPA. I love dry hop character too much to skip that, but I actually think that you can get enough flavor and aroma from a single hop addition, if it is large enough, to make good beer that isn't hopped every five minutes. (Indeed, I harbor a suspicion that too many additions create intense but muddy hoppy character! rather than bright complex hop character.)

 

[tgmartin000]

Yes. My ipa's have a muddy hop flavor. I'm sold. I'll be trying that fo sho.

 

[olotti]

I typically cut the heat at 60 or 90 minutes depending on whether it's an ipa or dipa then let the wort cool to around 175 then dump in my hop stand additions them just let it cool on its own which typically after a half hour is around 150 by the end of the hopstand. It's worked out well so far and I still throw in a 3-4 oz dry hop for my 5 gal batches, can never have to much aroma plus I truly believe aroma is also attached perceived flavor.

 

[Colbizle]

I was wondering... What temperatures do commercial breweries whirlpool at? 195F? Are they limited to only that temperature or can they get into the 170-160 range and add hops then too like us homebrewers.

Just curious if anyone knew.

Reason I ask is that I feel like you get much more aroma/flavor out of 170-160 without the bitterness than 195F.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah i've heard that too. I usually get about half my bitterness (guessing) from my hopstand so I usually to an initial one, then add more 30min later or so. Those I save for hops I want to have in the nose the most

 

[bobbrews]

I was wondering... What temperatures do commercial breweries whirlpool at? 195F? Are they limited to only that temperature or can they get into the 170-160 range and add hops then too like us homebrewers.

Just curious if anyone knew.

Reason I ask is that I feel like you get much more aroma/flavor out of 170-160 without the bitterness than 195F.

Hops stop isomerizing (bitter flavors) at about 175F.

208-212 F boil temp are not all that different from 195-200 F. For hopstand additions to make an impact, you have to be well below boiling or at least 180F.

 

[gotbags-10]

So I just did my first hop stand. I put 4oz at flameout and then let it cool to 170 about 30min. Then another 4 oz in for another 30 min. I gotta tell ya I was a little disappointed. I expected huge hop flavors. I don't have a lid for my keggle im wondering if that hurt me.

 

[Colbizle]

So I just did my first hop stand. I put 4oz at flameout and then let it cool to 170 about 30min. Then another 4 oz in for another 30 min. I gotta tell ya I was a little disappointed. I expected huge hop flavors. I don't have a lid for my keggle im wondering if that hurt me.

Lid won't matter IMO. What was the batch size? What types of hops?

 

[gotbags-10]

5.5g all citra

 

[Colbizle]

5.5g all citra

All-grain? Do you check and adjust for your mash ph? What was ur grain bill like? You can add all the hops in the world but if your mash ph is not within 5.2-5.6 range (with 5.4 being preferred for hoppy styles) it can end up being very muddled hop character, missing those nice bright hop flavors. That, and a complex grain bill and untreated water are some other factors but of course there's a million variables. I'd start with those though.

 

[tgmartin000]

Hops stop isomerizing (bitter flavors) at about 175F.

208-212 F boil temp are not all that different from 195-200 F. For hopstand additions to make an impact, you have to be well below boiling or at least 180F.

Not only that, but the boiling point of myrcene is (I believe) around 160 or so....so any hop stand above that temp is going to volatilize all your precious myrcene.

 

[bobbrews]

Not only that, but the boiling point of myrcene is (I believe) around 160 or so....so any hop stand above that temp is going to volatilize all your precious myrcene.

Myrcene volatilizes all of the time, at various temperatures, some points more drastically than others. The lab-tested boil point of myrcene is 147F, but the compound is still very much maintained in IPAs with large hopstands at 180F. In the laboratory, myrcene is isolated and sensed to humans as green, balsamic, harsh... however in beer, it is sensed as piney, citrusy, floral. You get the most of that flavor/aroma in the dryhop when using a lot of Pacific Northwest US hops.

 

[ncbrewer]

So I just did my first hop stand. I put 4oz at flameout and then let it cool to 170 about 30min. Then another 4 oz in for another 30 min. I gotta tell ya I was a little disappointed. I expected huge hop flavors. I don't have a lid for my keggle im wondering if that hurt me.

Myrcene volatilizes all of the time, at various temperatures, some points more drastically than others. The lab-tested boil point of myrcene is 147F, but the compound is still very much maintained in IPAs with large hopstands at 180F. In the laboratory, myrcene is isolated and sensed to humans as green, balsamic, harsh... however in beer, it is sensed as piney, citrusy, floral. You get the most of that flavor/aroma in the dryhop when using a lot of Pacific Northwest US hops.

It is common to do the hop stand with the kettle covered, I think for the reason shown above (volatilization of myrcene). My guess is that you're loosing a lot of the flavor and aroma because of the uncovered hop stand.

 

[gotbags-10]

So I'm thinking next go around I will skip the big addition at FO and save it all for 170 degrees and below. Also I will look for a lid.

 

[ArcLight]

One other thing - how are the hops distributed?
Are they loose? Then maybe give the kettle a stir after 10 minutes.

In a bag? If in a bag they may be too concentrated (4 ounces), so you may want to dunk the bag a few times every 5 -10 minutes, to drain the wort form the bag and have it fill with new wort.

 

[Gameface]

So I'm thinking next go around I will skip the big addition at FO and save it all for 170 degrees and below. Also I will look for a lid.

Aluminum foil