I have two grainfather fermenters that only have a single 1.5 TC connection in the lid. I have had success dropping hops through the small valves by using a 6" 1.5 TC spool and opening and closing the valve a full 180 degrees. Tapping on the side of the spool with a wooden spoon can help release the pellets also, but the back and forth movement of the valve seems to work the best. Depending on the type of valve you have, you might have to remove the handle to get this range of motion. A ball valve might be more problematic because the settled hop pellets are not moved by the ball when the valve is actuated.
Hop Dropper for SSB Unitank
- Thread starter philm63
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I gotta agree with Vale71 - I did a fair bit of research before settling on what I have now, as there were quite a few comments on the difficulties of having only a 1.5" valve to get through.
If you are limited to a 1.5" TC port, you could use a 1.5" to 3" adapter-spool and use a 3" TC butterfly valve. So the setup would look like this: Your 1.5" TC port - 1.5" TC to 3" TC adapter - 3" TC butterfly valve - 3" TC Spool (length is up to you; mine is 3" and my setup holds 6 oz) - 3" TC Cap with Gas In and PRV.
If you are limited to a 1.5" TC port, you could use a 1.5" to 3" adapter-spool and use a 3" TC butterfly valve. So the setup would look like this: Your 1.5" TC port - 1.5" TC to 3" TC adapter - 3" TC butterfly valve - 3" TC Spool (length is up to you; mine is 3" and my setup holds 6 oz) - 3" TC Cap with Gas In and PRV.
Bumping this for a quick question.
Is there any reason I couldn’t just add a 3 inch butterfly valve to the unitank, a 3 inch spool to it, then the 3 inch pressure valve to the top?
I’m guessing people don’t like the idea of that as someone could forget and then close the butterfly valve thus making a bomb?
My main question was about the volume needed for the spool. What’s the volume that pellet hops take up? I’m doing 12 gallons, and would like the ability to drop a full lb of hops just in case I ever decide to do that high. Wondering if 6 inches is enough, or should I even go 8 or 12?
Is there any reason I couldn’t just add a 3 inch butterfly valve to the unitank, a 3 inch spool to it, then the 3 inch pressure valve to the top?
I’m guessing people don’t like the idea of that as someone could forget and then close the butterfly valve thus making a bomb?
My main question was about the volume needed for the spool. What’s the volume that pellet hops take up? I’m doing 12 gallons, and would like the ability to drop a full lb of hops just in case I ever decide to do that high. Wondering if 6 inches is enough, or should I even go 8 or 12?
This is the general configuration that has been discussed and showcased many times in this thread. By that observation, no, there is no reason as to why this same configuration of components would work for others and not for you. Unless you are referring to the "pressure valve on top" as the 3" TC prv that came with the unitank. This PRV would work, but it would not let you purge the spool of oxygen before dropping your hops. On top of that you would not be able to dry hop under pressure because you will not be able to balance the pressure in the spool with the head pressure in the unitank.
This is always a possibility, that is why it is recommended to have a prv valve that can do its job regardless of whatever errors the user might make. Forgetting to open a valve in this case.
I am able to fit 3oz of T-90 pellets into the exposed side of the valve when closed. The volume of this container is about 1.5" of 3" TC cross sectional area.
(16oz/3oz) * 1.5 in = 8 inch of spool required/lb
Get the 12 inch long spool to give yourself enough room.
Follow you on all but the first part. I figure leaving the clamp seal basket cracked just so no hops fall in, but would still allow headspace including the spool to naturally purge.
Once hops are dumped, leaving the valve open would keep the same pressure as the rest of the tank.
Now I’m not sure if it actually would purge naturally. It could, but am not certain.
I’ve got an inline filter that has a 3 inch opening with a 1.5 TC top. I considered going that route and putting my spunding valve on the top, setting it to near zero pressure. Close off the blow off cane for a while, thus forcing all the pressure to exit upwards. Doing that would surely purge the headspace.
I’d just have to make sure to add an actual pressure relief valve Teed in somewhere else.
Once hops are dumped, leaving the valve open would keep the same pressure as the rest of the tank.
Now I’m not sure if it actually would purge naturally. It could, but am not certain.
I’ve got an inline filter that has a 3 inch opening with a 1.5 TC top. I considered going that route and putting my spunding valve on the top, setting it to near zero pressure. Close off the blow off cane for a while, thus forcing all the pressure to exit upwards. Doing that would surely purge the headspace.
I’d just have to make sure to add an actual pressure relief valve Teed in somewhere else.
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Absolutely essential. The most useless part on a fermenter is the PRV that can be isolated from the main tank.
Yeah, I know....., "No way, I'd never close the valve between the tank and the PRV!"
Right up until the time you do.
BOOM!
I am not sure I completely follow your question, but it sounds like you are trying to purge oxygen in the spool that contains your hops by slightly opening the 3"TC valve to allow CO2 to escape into the spool without dropping your hops into the tank. The 3" TC PRV would be installed on top of the spool and loosened via its square drive to allow the CO2 to escape past its spring loaded seal. This could work, however it would lead to loosing pressure in the unitank, unless you could replace the CO2 being lost out the PRV with CO2 being sent in through the blow off valve at the same rate. I highly recommend you keep your headspace pressure constant through the dry hopping process. Adding hops to carbonated beer that has lost the headspace pressure required to maintain the level of carbonation already achieved is a big no no. The hops will cause a massive about of CO2 to come out of solution which will coat the vessel walls with your hops rather than keep them in the beer where they can be utilized. My other interpretation of your question is you are planing on adding the hops at the beginning of primary fermentation and allowing the spool to be purged by the CO2 produced during fermentation. This would be done by slightly opening the 3" TC valve and having a spunding valve on the other end of the spool. This could work, but could give you major problems. The hops could hydrate in the spool from humidity or blowoff, this would cause them to swell and lodge themselves in the spool. The hops would more than likely oxidize given that the level of oxygen contained in the spool and headspace is fairly high until vigorous fermentaion is established. The CO2 passing through the hops in the spool would probably end up scrubbing some of their aroma in the process also. On the dangerous side, blowoff could mix with you hops in a way that forms a plug which prevents gases from escaping the fermenter, if your only PRV was downstream of this plug you could have a over pressure condition sneak up on you.
Yeah, that’s not what I was saying at all. It sounds to me like you’re trying to explain how to drop hops with pressure, and making it more complicated than it needs to be. I’m not talking about dry hopping under pressure. Also not talking about adding hops at the beginning of primary fermentation.
The one concern that you brought up is humidity making the hops swell and plugging the tube. That makes sense.
Then what were you trying to say in your previous post?
I’ve got it figured out at this point.
According to this source hop pellets weigh on average 500 kg/m^3.
It will purge. Fermentation is slow enough that diffusion guarantees full replacement of air through CO2 by the end of fermentation from every nook and cranny.
However as others have mentioned swelling through absorbed moisture might cause the hops to form an unmovable clump if left exposed for more than a few hours making this a risky endeavour.
Beenym88
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Not to be an ******* but do you think your beer ever got oxidized by just dropping them in? I don’t know of any small breweries that have these advanced set ups they just drop the hops in quickly. I used to have a fermzilla and did think it was cool to be able not do the whol no oxygen hopping but that thing didn’t last long.
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For some styles it can make a difference such as a NEIPA, and some highly-hopped IPAs - even a very small amount of O2 can lead to premature staling. Since I began paying more attention to minimizing O2 in my process - especially in dropping hops post-fermentation - my hop aroma has lasted much longer, and the initial hop impressions were more intense. It's just a good practice for hop-forward styles, IMHO.
So how would somebody drop 22 lbs of hops in with one of these contraptions? That’s for a 7 barrel system, but still fairly small scale.
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OP
I cannot say whether this concept translates to a larger scale system as I only have experience with a 5-gallon batch system so I'll defer to those with experience on larger systems. What I do know for sure is the quality of the "hop experience" improved in my IPAs as soon as I more tightly controlled O2 ingress in my process. This hop dropper with CO2 purge capability was an improvement for me.
I know there’s a lot of differences in homebrew techniques vs breweries. I’ve been curious in a lot of those practices in various areas. I tried looking into plate chillers for that reason a year or so ago. Some things we have a major advantage with on our scale.
I see a hop dropper as being one of those things. We can so why not.
I also see it as a major disadvantage for breweries. I don’t see how they can, thus i imagine they don’t. If they don’t, it makes me wonder how much of an impact it really makes.
I’m on the fence, 50/5 as to why do it.
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I think you nailed it when you said "we can so why not". Some of the things we can get away with on the homebrew scale are just not cost effective on a commercial scale, and some things just flat work differently depending on scale so yeah; why not.
These guys can provide you with a similar contraption even for very large scale operations.
https://braukon.de/en/hopgun/
On large systems you really need some type of forced circulation infuser. Just dropping the hops into a very large fermenter would have a very low yield, oxygen considerations aside.
I have also got 2 GF conicals and have been researching how to dry hop similar to a hop dropper. Have you found the 1.5” TC gets blocked? I know you said to open 180° and activate the lever several times, but I’m just checking it’s worth it before I try to build it. Do you by chance have a parts list and picture for assistance. Cheers and happy brewing!
jbschuyler
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Great thread guys- Thanks! - I successfully dry hopped under pressure last week using a similar setup as described above. The loose hops did get momentarily stuck, but then all dropped into my Flex+ fermenter. All good -UNTIL yesterday when I had a hop jammed transfer into the keg. I only got the keg half filled and then had to call it done.
Not sure I want to use loose pellets ever again. Has any tried the same method, but with using a narrow diameter SS mesh hop tube to contain the hops. I have found a 1.375" ID ball valve so I just need a tube that will fit through it.
Please let me know if anyone knows where to find a tube of this size.
Not sure I want to use loose pellets ever again. Has any tried the same method, but with using a narrow diameter SS mesh hop tube to contain the hops. I have found a 1.375" ID ball valve so I just need a tube that will fit through it.
Please let me know if anyone knows where to find a tube of this size.
Curious, did you cold crash before you transferred? Also, with that particular fermenter, there's a good amount of headspace. I'd look into using hop bags and magnets for your dry hopping needs. Put your dry hops in a sanitized mesh back at the very beginning before sealing up, and use magnet in the bag and magnet outside the fermenter to hold in in place above the work/top of the fermenter. When it comes time to dry hop, just remove the magnet from the outside and your hops fall into your wort/beer, and they stay contained in the back so you don't have any issues when transferring out.
jbschuyler
Well-Known Member
Yes, I did my normal 3 day cold crash ( with close to 48 hours at around 35 degrees). I have read about the magnet method too, and might give it a try. Do you have a magnet type recommendation? Thanks!
Early on, I used a corny keg post connector to the racking valve on my Spike. I discovered it tended to clog, so I switched that connector to a male camlock, used a female camlock attached to some tubing, then terminated that tubing with a ball-lock liquid "out" black connector.
When it comes time to rack, I unscrew the ball lock connector from the end of the tubing, attach to the camlock post, and release beer into a pitcher; it clears the racking arm which has yeast and hop residue in it. When clear, I screw the ball lock connector back on. This has the added benefit of purging the line of air, so that when I screw on the connector, it's virtually all beer in there.
For me, the secret has been to clear the racking arm and line before putting the ball lock connector on there, as well as using a camlock post rather than a corny keg post on the fermenter.
When it comes time to rack, I unscrew the ball lock connector from the end of the tubing, attach to the camlock post, and release beer into a pitcher; it clears the racking arm which has yeast and hop residue in it. When clear, I screw the ball lock connector back on. This has the added benefit of purging the line of air, so that when I screw on the connector, it's virtually all beer in there.
For me, the secret has been to clear the racking arm and line before putting the ball lock connector on there, as well as using a camlock post rather than a corny keg post on the fermenter.
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I've got this going for hop dropping right now, in fact, I have TOO MUCH capacity.
I bought the new Spike lid with 3 ports so that I could use TWO hop droppers instead of only one. In fact, I bought a 2" sight glass, 2" butterfly valve, and a 1.5" to 2" adapter to connect them. My biggest gripe about the 1.5" ports is that they don't allow for enough capacity. So I more than doubled it.
Probably should have thought this through more. I put the 1.5" AND the 2" on the lid, proceeded to put 4 oz of dry hops in the 2" sight glass. Guess what? There's room for more, and I didn't need the second, 1.5" hop dropper.
I am only doing a 5-gallon batch in a CF-10, so with a larger batch I presume I could well need the greater capacity. But as you can see from the pic below, there's a hop dropper sitting there twiddling its thumbs.
The ball lock connectors and tubing were to allow CO2 to bleed through the hops removing as much oxygen as possible, and terminating in a blowoff jar. Short video below.
I bought the new Spike lid with 3 ports so that I could use TWO hop droppers instead of only one. In fact, I bought a 2" sight glass, 2" butterfly valve, and a 1.5" to 2" adapter to connect them. My biggest gripe about the 1.5" ports is that they don't allow for enough capacity. So I more than doubled it.
Probably should have thought this through more. I put the 1.5" AND the 2" on the lid, proceeded to put 4 oz of dry hops in the 2" sight glass. Guess what? There's room for more, and I didn't need the second, 1.5" hop dropper.
I am only doing a 5-gallon batch in a CF-10, so with a larger batch I presume I could well need the greater capacity. But as you can see from the pic below, there's a hop dropper sitting there twiddling its thumbs.
The ball lock connectors and tubing were to allow CO2 to bleed through the hops removing as much oxygen as possible, and terminating in a blowoff jar. Short video below.
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@mongoose33 how long are you letting the hop dropper purge before dropping them into the fermenter? I have the parts for an identical setup but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
jbschuyler
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@mongoose33 - Also how long are you cold crashing, and what other methods are you using to avoid hop jams during transfer from Flex to keg? I do like your set up, mine is similar except I have the older Flex lid with only one 1.5" port.
I just, as in 10 minutes ago, removed the ball lock connectors from the hop droppers, so the system is now sealed. That will allow natural carbonation from the remaining fermentation. Depending on how much you want to trust the TILT hydrometer I have in the fermenter, gravity is between 1.017 and 1.020.
I'm still dithering about when to drop the hops. I could do it now, and get some biotransformation from the remaining fermentation. Or I could crash and then drop the hops into a cold beer (I just read an article advocating that, I'm tempted to try it). But the idea of crashing in part is to cause the yeast and other particulate matter to drop out, so that would argue for dropping now, before crashing.
EDITED TO ADD: I just dropped the hops. I decided I'd let them do a little biotransformation plus they should be more likely to drop out, I'd think. The system is up to about 2 PSI after just a couple hours.
I'm expecting to dump yeast and trub from the bottom, at least a quart. I want to get the layer of trub below the racking arm.
That's all I'm planning to do to avoid hop jams. I've found that the connectors I use, in combination with clearing the racking arm by running some beer through the tubing, seems to resolve any clogging tendencies. I'm knocking on wood.
So long as I get the layer of hop trub below the racking arm I don't expect any problems. So long as I don't cause a huge vortex by opening the valve full bore, I should be able to pull off the beer with little problem.
That's the theory, anyway.
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Oh, half a day or so. Two points of gravity is equal to about 1 volume of CO2 produced as it ferments, i.e., in a 5-gallon batch, as the gravity drops two points the yeast will have produced about 5 gallons of CO2.
I can't remember the exact volume of my sight glass, and I'm too lazy right now to remeasure and recalculate, but if you've ever run across the idea that to purge a keg takes something like 25 cycles of pressurize and depressurize, then I'm getting a lot more than 25 volumes of CO2 passing through my hops. A lot more.
My only consideration was that I didn't want to lose any more hop aroma than needed as the CO2 wafts it away, so I don't open up the hop dropper to the CO2 until later in the fermentation.
