Homemade PBW Recipe

[Gozie Boy]

I've made some homemade PBW, and it was super simple to put together.

My local grocery store has its own version of Oxiclean Free (identical recipe -- no perfumes or chlorine), so I grabbed that and a 4lb bag of TSP/90.

Easy mixture of 3.5lbs Oxi-free to 1.5lbs TSP/90, mixed together thoroughly. I use it all the time, no issues whatsoever.

Curious how you mix these up, so that they're well integrated. Just dump in a bucket and shake? (I would think that this would not mix well). Or, mix a little of each, alternating, and close/shake at various point along the way? Or something else?

 

[Robert65]

Curious how you mix these up, so that they're well integrated. Just dump in a bucket and shake? (I would think that this would not mix well). Or, mix a little of each, alternating, and close/shake at various point along the way? Or something else?

I made a batch recently and put them in well oversized bucket with a lid and spent as long as I could stand tumbling and shaking the bucket. The next day I dumped from my storage container back in the bucket, and shook and tumbled some more because I just wasn't sure how well mixed it was. Since then I had a better idea. Next time I'll dump all the ingredients in a big, heavy weight garbage bag, and shake and toss them like I would a dredge for frying chicken! That should get a lot more random movement.

 

[Gozie Boy]

That's actually not a bad idea, as long as you use a super strong bag and be careful it doesn't break or get punctured.

 

[Robert65]

That's actually not a bad idea, as long as you use a super strong bag and be careful it doesn't break or get punctured.

Exactly. I have some 3 mil contractor cleanup bags, which might actually be overkill, but better safe than sorry.

 

[Obese Chess]

I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly?

I just mix 6lbs of Oxy Clean free, 4lbs Sodium Metasilicate (Red Devil TSP/90), and 2.8lbs (45oz) 7th Generation powdered dishwasher detergent, and I have 12.8lbs of what is functionally PBW for a fraction of the cost?

You guys are insane. I love this website so much.

 

[schematix]

I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly?

I just mix 6lbs of Oxy Clean free, 4lbs Sodium Metasilicate (Red Devil TSP/90), and 2.8lbs (45oz) 7th Generation powdered dishwasher detergent, and I have 12.8lbs of what is functionally PBW for a fraction of the cost?

It's like half the cost of buying it by the pound at the LHBS or online. It's not quite as effective in my experience but for half the cost it's a good value and gets the job done. FWIW i bought a 50lb pale of real PBW and thought that was a better value than the DIY even at the lower price because in bulk the price is quite a bit less than we typically see when it's sold in smaller quantities.

 

[Robert65]

It's not quite as effective in my experience

My initial impression is the opposite, that it's at least as effective, and I found it fully dissolved more readily. There are several brands of similar brewery cleaners, and I find they vary a little in performance; the homemade stuff is certainly right in the range. I'm sure I'll never buy ready made again.

 

[Broothru]

My initial impression is the opposite, that it's at least as effective, and I found it fully dissolved more readily. There are several brands of similar brewery cleaners, and I find they vary a little in performance; the homemade stuff is certainly right in the range. I'm sure I'll never buy ready made again.

I alternate between PBW and DIY. My DIY is 3:2:1 Oxy Free : TSP90 : 7th Generation. I have a hard time finding the 7th Gen powder detergent (usually only finding the dishwasher pods), but also have had good luck using a 'squirt' (scientific measure) of 7th Gen liquid as the surfactant. I've also used Dawn liquid on occasion.

I wash a ton of wine bottles and find that Oxi and Dawn seem to aid in label and glue removal but leave an annoying white film on the surface after drying. I think it's the Oxy. Oddly I don't have this problem if I soak/clean with PBW and 7th Gen. Either the Oxy has something that clings to the glass surface or the 7th Gen is a better surfactant.

Still looking for a DIY formulation that will help remove labels without leaving a residue on my bottles. The DIY does a more than adequate job on cleaning my brewing equipment at a significant cost savings however.

Brooo Brother

 

[balrog]

Curious how you mix these up, so that they're well integrated. Just dump in a bucket and shake? (I would think that this would not mix well). Or, mix a little of each, alternating, and close/shake at various point along the way? Or something else?

I use an old oxy free container as my mixed up batch container. I put in two scoops sodium percarbonate bought in bulk off amazon, then one scoop tsp90 bought off amazon. Stir.

Lather rinse and repeat.

 

[chrilr]

Gonna have to try this

 

[Gozie Boy]

Exactly. I have some 3 mil contractor cleanup bags, which might actually be overkill, but better safe than sorry.

Curious if you gave this a try and, if so, if it seemed to work well.

 

[Robert65]

Curious if you gave this a try and, if so, if it seemed to work well.

Well, it will be a long time before I have to make a new batch from the start, I just made this one. But I did put it in the bag and toss it around for extra insurance and proof of concept. It seems sound. No way it will break that bag, easy to shake, toss, roll, etc., and I was able to pour it back in the storage pail without choking in a caustic cloud of dust. I'll call it a successful idea.

 

[Gozie Boy]

Excellent! I'll give this a try soon.

 

[Bilsch]

Sodium Metasilicate is hygroscopic and the moisture it attracts starts the decomposition of the sodium percarbonate. So for shelf life of the homemade PBW, best to bake the Na2SiO3 dry before mixing and/or store the finished product with moisture absorbent packs. Molecular sieve ones work very good for this purpose.

 

[dlutter]

I wash a ton of wine bottles and find that Oxi and Dawn seem to aid in label and glue removal but leave an annoying white film on the surface after drying. I think it's the Oxy. Oddly I don't have this problem if I soak/clean with PBW and 7th Gen. Either the Oxy has something that clings to the glass surface or the 7th Gen is a better surfactant.

Still looking for a DIY formulation that will help remove labels without leaving a residue on my bottles. The DIY does a more than adequate job on cleaning my brewing equipment at a significant cost savings however.

Brooo Brother

How do you remove the residue? I forgot about a batch of 50 bottles soaking in Kroger brand Oxy cleaner (Na carbonate and Na percarbonate) and they all have this white residue inside and out that I can't get off with dawn and Kroger oxy and insane amounts of scrubbing.

 

[day_trippr]

Try swishing some white vinegar in the bottles...

Cheers!

 

[Broothru]

How do you remove the residue? I forgot about a batch of 50 bottles soaking in Kroger brand Oxy cleaner (Na carbonate and Na percarbonate) and they all have this white residue inside and out that I can't get off with dawn and Kroger oxy and insane amounts of scrubbing.

I get the residue occasionally when I use Oxy alone or in combination with Dawn dishwashing liquid, but only it seems when I use too much Oxy. Try using less if you can. But what I usually do is a multi-step cleaning. I remove labels with an extended (several hours to overnight) soak in Oxy with a squirt of dishwashing liquid. Once the labels are removed I dry the bottles on a bottle tree. The outside of the bottle may have a white residue after drying, but that usually wipes off with a damp towel. Then I just store the Bottles (wine or beer) in boxes until I'm ready to bottle. The insides I deal with later. Just remember, when it comes to Oxy, less is usually more than enough.

At bottling time I sort the bottles and clean them inside and out with either a chlorine soak (usually Clorox 1 cup per 8 gallon deep sink) for at least a half hour or more, followed by a hot water rinse with a faucet-mounted bottle blaster. I follow up with a bowl-mounted blaster that shoots up Star-San into the inverted bottle. Put 'em back on the bottle tree and air dry. Then cap them with a small piece of foil and fill them within a week or so. The bottles will be clean and sanitary with no residue.

An alternative wash I use sometimes is a combination of TSP:Oxy at a ratio of roughly 2:1, with a healthy squirt of Seventh Generation dishwashing liquid. You don't need a lot of TSP/Oxy, maybe ¼ cup for an 8 gallon sink. Then do the same bottle blast with hot water and blast of Star-San and dry inverted on a bottle tree. That method is better with fewer residue issues than straight Oxy, but is a little more expensive and requires more measuring. Plus I've always got Oxy and Dawn in the house, but not always TSP and Seventh Gen.

Hardness of your local water may also contribute to white residue. I'm on a deep well with only moderate hardness and no chemical treatment other than carbon filtering. It usually leaves me with only minor white residue issues which are mostly just annoying. I can usually get my glass quite clean and sanitary with the steps I outlined with limited effort. The first step is for removing labels and residual glue. The second step is for cleaning and sanitizing, and getting rid of any white powder residue left over.

Brooo Brother

 

[chrilr]

Anyone know what types of companies have Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Metasilicate. I looked around my area and it looks like I can only get a pallet or 55 gallon drum of them.
Looking to buy 50 to 100 pounds locally but having a hard time. 50# of Percarbonate shipped is over 100$ for me

Carpet cleaners? Dry cleaners?

Thanks guys

 

[S-Met]

Anyone know what types of companies have Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Metasilicate. I looked around my area and it looks like I can only get a pallet or 55 gallon drum of them.
Looking to buy 50 to 100 pounds locally but having a hard time. 50# of Percarbonate shipped is over 100$ for me

Carpet cleaners? Dry cleaners?

Thanks guys

Where are you located?
Have you tried Amazon? Both available with free shipping (prime not required).

I get tsp90 or tsp from my local home depot in 4lb bags. Its price is good enough.

You can also check with pool supply or hot tub companies. They may have or be willing to order for you.

 

[balrog]

I have only every used amazon and ebay and 10 pound lots

 

[S-Met]

Sodium Metasilicate Pentahydrate 99% Min. Purity 25lb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0765D125Z/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_PCaqEbRRY5E4M

 

[chrilr]

25# of Percarbonate is 50$ on Amazon, you can get 50# for 50$ at some chemical supply houses. Looking to make 150-200# of finished product

I just made 36# for 90$ and was looking to go bigger

 

[Gozie Boy]

Excellent! I'll give this a try soon.

I recently tried the 3 mil "bag mixer" technique and best I can tell it seems to work pretty well. I shook, tossed, rotated the bag in 2-3 minute intervals, probably 10-12 minutes in total. No easy way of being sure if this is an effective poor boy way of mixing the ingredients since they all look the same, but I'm at a loss of a better way to mix.

BTW, I also used this purer form of percarbonate (search Amazon for "Sodium Percarbonate UNCOATED 99% Min. Purity 25lb"). It's a lot cheaper per pound of percarbonate than Oxiclean. And since this is almost pure Percarbonate, you do not need as much as you would use with OxiClean (adjust your percentages accordingly).

 

[FswBG]

Anyone know what types of companies have Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Metasilicate. I looked around my area and it looks like I can only get a pallet or 55 gallon drum of them.
Looking to buy 50 to 100 pounds locally but having a hard time. 50# of Percarbonate shipped is over 100$ for me

Carpet cleaners? Dry cleaners?

Thanks guys

I order from makeyourown.buzz
Great selection, descriptions, and pricing.
Only thing I have to purchase separately is the TSP90 which I order from Amazon.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

You want larger quantities than the recipe which includes Oxiclean, 7th Generation Dishwashing powder, and Red Devil TSP/90?

 

[chrilr]

You want larger quantities than the recipe which includes Oxiclean, 7th Generation Dishwashing powder, and Red Devil TSP/90?

Nope

 

[chrilr]

Anyone know what types of companies have Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Metasilicate. I looked around my area and it looks like I can only get a pallet or 55 gallon drum of them.
Looking to buy 50 to 100 pounds locally but having a hard time. 50# of Percarbonate shipped is over 100$ for me

Carpet cleaners? Dry cleaners?

Thanks guys

This

 

[FswBG]

This

To my knowledge, those dry cleaners and other companies pay distributers and you would need to work out a deal with them if they'd be willing to cut you in. The makeyourown website I referenced estimated shipping of 50# Sodium Metabisulfite for 26$.

 

[chrilr]

To my knowledge, those dry cleaners and other companies pay distributers and you would need to work out a deal with them if they'd be willing to cut you in. The makeyourown website I referenced estimated shipping of 50# Sodium Metabisulfite for 26$.

Looks like the only chemical they sell is tetrasodium edta. I was looking for Metasilicate and Percarbonate, it would take a lifetime to use 50# of metabisulfite

 

[dlutter]

metasilicate (only if you're cleaning aluminum), and some surfactant (jet dry, unfragranced Dawn, whatever).


What do I use? My company's knock-off of PBW (ours doesn't have metasilicate in it) for most things. For really bad cleaning jobs in my home brewery, I bring out the big dogs (the potassium hydroxide-based stuff).

What does metasilicate do only with aluminum that it doesn't do for other things?

BLC is KOH based. Would that be appropriate in special circumstances? It's probably too expensive for routine use.