Homemade PBW Recipe

[barrooze]

Curious since I can't find the TSP90 locally and am planning to use the real thing too, did you still use the same ratios that the OP suggested or did you go closer to the 70/30 split proposed for the real deal TSP and add in some 7th generation detergent?

Sorry, just saw this post. I used the 96oz of Oxy Free, then the whole box of TSP (4.5#). I then added the prescribed amount of 7th Gen detergent. This mixture is working well for me! Good luck!

 

[Newsman]

If you want to use only Oxy Free to clean your 6 gallon fermenters, how much Oxy would you use?

 

[barrooze]

If you want to use only Oxy Free to clean your 6 gallon fermenters, how much Oxy would you use?

When I used just Oxy Free, I used the same volume that's recommended for PBW. I found the same amount worked pretty well. I let mine soak for a while though (a few days) with no ill effects.

Taken from the Northern Brewer site for PBW:
Use 1 to 2 ounces per gallon for cleaning kettles, 3/4 ounce per gallon for fermenters, kegs, tanks, and other equipment. Soak equipment overnight in PBW solution; rinse the following morning - no scrubbing required! Will not damage rubber gaskets, soft metals, or your skin. PBW can effectively clean items that can't be reached with a brush or sponge, and is strong enough to remove thick, difficult, caked-on organic soils.

 

[b-boy]

If you want to use only Oxy Free to clean your 6 gallon fermenters, how much Oxy would you use?

I generally use 3/4-1 scoop per carboy.

 

[chucknorris101]

Im looking at grabbing All Oxy Booster Free from Amazon - 3.25 lbs for 5.22! Looks like the same stuff

 

[KramE]

anyone figure out how to cut down the foam?

I actually logged in just to see if anyone else has this problem.

I get crazy foam with cip application. 3 minutes in, and the foam runneth wild.

And idea what's going on?

 

[BrunDog]

Interesting comment about foam. My first batch of HPBW (h for homemade) seemed to foam very little. Then when I made the second batch, I noticed that I had incorrectly calculated the amount of Oxyclean in the recipe in the first batch. I made the second batch according to the recipe, that is, more Oxyclean.

So my thinking is the oxyclean is to blame? Is that was causes foam? Does straight up Oxyclean foam up with agitation?

 

[IslandLizard]

I actually logged in just to see if anyone else has this problem.

I get crazy foam with cip application. 3 minutes in, and the foam runneth wild.

And idea what's going on?

That's the oxygen coming out of the solution. It dissipates after a few minutes (5-10), leaving washing soda behind.

If you don't need the oxygen action, you may as well use washing soda (sodium carbonate) either by itself or with TSP/90 or TSP.

 

[KramE]

Interesting.

Next question... How do I know if I need oxygen action?

 

[nyks]

Im looking at grabbing All Oxy Booster Free from Amazon - 3.25 lbs for 5.22! Looks like the same stuff

I think it may be the same.

I found that Sun Product Corporation sells their stuff under several brands, which include Sun and All. I pulled the ingredient sheets for both the All Oxy Booster and Sun Oxygen Cleaner and they both contain the same ingredients.

However, the MSDS for Sun Oxygen Cleaner says Sodium Carbonate is 40-70% by weight, whereas All Oxy Booster is a trade secret and doesn't provide the info.

Buying from ingredients from Amazon and Target gives me a result of $2.28/lb for the homemade stuff, give or take. :rockin:

Links for reference:
Sun MSDS
Sun Ingredients
All MSDS
All Ingredients

Edit: Just noticed soccerdad noted some of this in post #156

 

[Jwin]

The Sun brand disappeared here in middle TN but Kroger started to Cary a store brand about the same time
I picked some up but haven't tried it yet

 

[indolent]

The DAP brand of TSP is only 7.77 for 4 lbs on Amazon with prime. Any reason to not go with that?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKO8B2/ref=s9_simh_gw_g60_i5_r?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0A01BVRM0NQTRRJ6H5WJ&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2437869742&pf_rd_i=desktop

 

[barrooze]

I'm sure that would work fine. I bought the Savogran 4.5# box and dumped the whole thing in. It's working well for me!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AXE7CY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[nyks]

The DAP brand of TSP is only 7.77 for 4 lbs on Amazon with prime. Any reason to not go with that?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKO8B2/ref=s9_simh_gw_g60_i5_r?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0A01BVRM0NQTRRJ6H5WJ&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2437869742&pf_rd_i=desktop

There was some discussion about real TSP vs. the Red Devil stuff (which is actually Sodium Metasilicate) a few pages back. Sounds like TSP is not that environmentally friendly, plus PBW actually uses Sodium Metasilicate. However, it seems like either item will get the job done.

I usually dump my leftover cleaning liquid around my yard. TSP may harm my plants, so I'll probably stick with the Red Devil product.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Phosphates are pretty much fertilizers. The environmental aspects were from them being in most cleaning products. When all the phosphates got into the rivers, etc they caused algae blooms which caused issues.

 

[juskojj]

Is this even still an issue with PBW being so low cost now? I get that when this was written 3 years ago PBW was more expensive (looks like up to $9/lb, yikes!). But now I routinely get 4lb refills from my LHBS for $12 ($3/lb), so it would seem that it may actually be more expensive to create your own now when you factor in spending time sourcing the ingredients and mixing it yourself, etc.

wow!!! my LHBS sells 1lb PBW for $11, 4bls for $34...... your lucky!! i'm going to try making my own next time i need some

 

[BrunDog]

I'll bet those refills are not true PBW. If they are, you would not make your own!

 

[Jwin]

They may buy bulk like breweries and resale for a small profit
Like everything else in brewing, bulk PBW is significantly cheaper.

 

[MagicMatt]

I'll bet those refills are not true PBW. If they are, you would not make your own!

If you're referring to my comment, you and I have already covered that (and I don't, nor haven't, made my own):

Y'all made me question the price so I checked an old receipt and sure enough it's actually $15 for 4lb refill. So more like $3.75/lb. I don't know why I had $12 stuck in my head, I've been going on that assumption for a while now. Oops.

I would query if the refills are legit 5-Star Chemicals PBW. I buy the Oxy Free, TSP sub, and seventh generation per the recipe, all bought via Amazon.

It is legit PBW though. He gets the 50lb buckets (actually a palette of them I believe) and divvies it up.


Looking online, the cheapest I see is ritebrew.com has a 4lb refill for $15.99. That's $4/lb, not too shabby I suppose if you don't have a local source.

 

[Yesfan]

I priced the cost of the ingredients for 50lbs of homemade PBW vs the 50lb bucket. For me, the savings is not even $20, but as you get lower in volume, then you start to see the savings.

If I had the funds, I'd probably just buy the 50lb bucket outright. I don't have to mix anything up and I get a "free" bucket to store it. 50lbs of PBW (real or clone) is going to last a while, at least for me. Since I don't want to spend that amount of money at once on cleaning supplies (or start a collection of PBW buckets), I'll just buy the ingredients to make a decent amount and a 5 gallon bucket to mix/store it in.

 

[BrunDog]

If you're referring to my comment, you and I have already covered that (and I don't, nor haven't, made my own):

Sorry... Short memory by me!

 

[juskojj]

They may buy bulk like breweries and resale for a small profit
Like everything else in brewing, bulk PBW is significantly cheaper.

well for most things buying in bulk is cheaper.... if you can afford the cost of large amounts.. your lucky if you live where a brewery or LHBS will buy huge amounts and resale... most places don't because it's not worth their time.....

 

[WI_Wino]

RiteBrew has 4 lbs refills for $16. Cheapest I have seen.

 

[user 204491]

The cheapest that I am able to make my own PBW for comes out to $4.69/lb.

This is using OXObrite from Costco, TSP/90 from my local Ace Hardware, and 7th Generation detergent from soap.com.

Everywhere that I have tried to purchase PBW online comes out to more than that once I figure in shipping.

I live within driving distance of a MoreBeer store, and since the 50 lb containers are on sale today, it would come out to $3.95/lb if I went and picked up a bucket.

Normally though their price works out to $5/lb, so I figure I'm still saving money.

Ritebrew seems like a good deal until you add in shipping ($9.99), which then makes it come out to $6.50/lb.

Of course if I ever find a local replacement for the Sun Oxygen cleaner I could lower my cost quite a bit.

 

[brewprint]

The cheapest that I am able to make my own PBW for comes out to $4.69/lb.

This is using OXObrite from Costco, TSP/90 from my local Ace Hardware, and 7th Generation detergent from soap.com.

Everywhere that I have tried to purchase PBW online comes out to more than that once I figure in shipping.

I live within driving distance of a MoreBeer store, and since the 50 lb containers are on sale today, it would come out to $3.95/lb if I went and picked up a bucket.

Normally though their price works out to $5/lb, so I figure I'm still saving money.

Ritebrew seems like a good deal until you add in shipping ($9.99), which then makes it come out to $6.50/lb.

Of course if I ever find a local replacement for the Sun Oxygen cleaner I could lower my cost quite a bit.

I thought the 7th generation detergent was basically the closest thing to pbw that won't destroy plastic. It is what better bottle recommends instead of pbw.

 

[Yesfan]

The cheapest that I am able to make my own PBW for comes out to $4.69/lb.

This is using OXObrite from Costco, TSP/90 from my local Ace Hardware, and 7th Generation detergent from soap.com.

Everywhere that I have tried to purchase PBW online comes out to more than that once I figure in shipping.

I live within driving distance of a MoreBeer store, and since the 50 lb containers are on sale today, it would come out to $3.95/lb if I went and picked up a bucket.

Normally though their price works out to $5/lb, so I figure I'm still saving money.

Ritebrew seems like a good deal until you add in shipping ($9.99), which then makes it come out to $6.50/lb.

Of course if I ever find a local replacement for the Sun Oxygen cleaner I could lower my cost quite a bit.

Cheapest I found for me was getting all the ingredients from Amazon.

Oxi-clean Free $13.89 (or $0.14/oz)
Sunnyside Corp TSP $12.21 (or $0.19/oz)
7th Generation Detergent $15.93 (or $0.21/oz)

So going by the recipe posted on page 2, that would be

96oz of Oxi $13.89
64oz of TSP $12.21
45 oz of 7th $9.45

or $35.55 for 205 oz or 12.81lbs of mix. That's a little more than a 1/4th of the 50lb PBW bucket, so times 4 would be more like $142.20. That's about $2.77/lb. If you wanted to equate it closer to the 50lb bucket, then it would probably be cheaper since you wouldn't need 4-75oz boxes of 7th Generation.

 

[MagicMatt]

The cheapest that I am able to make my own PBW for comes out to $4.69/lb.

Ritebrew seems like a good deal until you add in shipping ($9.99), which then makes it come out to $6.50/lb.

The key there is to buy more than just one so the cost of shipping is negligible. Ritebrew also offers $5 off shipping for orders >$75. To make that amount, you'd need to order 5 refills @ $15.99 each:

$79.99 ($15.99 x five 4lb refills)
$15.82 shipping (to me, YMMV)
-$5.00 discount
---------------
$90.81 total for 20lbs ($4.54/lb)


That's cheaper than you claim you can make your own, and you don't have to mix anything or source different products.

You're welcome

 

[user 204491]

I thought the 7th generation detergent was basically the closest thing to pbw that won't destroy plastic. It is what better bottle recommends instead of pbw.

Not sure on that. I follow the recipe on page 2, which is a combination of scent-free oxygen cleaner, TSP/90, and 7th Generation powdered dishwasher detergent.

Cheapest I found for me was getting all the ingredients from Amazon.

Oxi-clean Free $13.89 (or $0.14/oz)
Sunnyside Corp TSP $12.21 (or $0.19/oz)
7th Generation Detergent $15.93 (or $0.21/oz)

So going by the recipe posted on page 2, that would be

96oz of Oxi $13.89
64oz of TSP $12.21
45 oz of 7th $9.45

or $35.55 for 205 oz or 12.81lbs of mix. That's a little more than a 1/4th of the 50lb PBW bucket, so times 4 would be more like $142.20. That's about $2.77/lb. If you wanted to equate it closer to the 50lb bucket, then it would probably be cheaper since you wouldn't need 4-75oz boxes of 7th Generation.

Hey, thanks, that made me take another look at my spreadsheet. Looks like I had a math error! My cost is actually $2.35/pound. Here's my cost breakdown:

OXO Brite: $23.99 for 14 lbs at Costco ($1.71/lb)
TSP/90: $15.36 for 4 lbs at Ace ($3.84/lb)
7th Gen: $14.28 for 2-75 oz boxes at Amazon/soap.com ($1.52/lb)

6 Lbs OXO = $10.26
4 Lbs TSP = $15.36
2.5 lbs 7th Gen = $3.80

12.5 lbs "PBW" = $29.42 or $2.35/lb

So yeah, I guess I can't find anything close to that for the real deal.

Unfortunately I think you may have a math error too as you said 96 oz of Oxi for $13.89; however, I can only find the 48 oz Oxi (3 lbs) on Amazon for that price. I think yours is closer to $3.50/pound, no?

Nice fine on that brand of TSP substitute. I'll go that route next time and save a few bucks.

 

[user 204491]

You're welcome

Hah! Thanks, but I just found an error in my spreadsheet, and my actual cost is more like $2.35/lb!

 

[Yesfan]

.....Unfortunately I think you may have a math error too as you said 96 oz of Oxi for $13.89; however, I can only find the 48 oz Oxi (3 lbs) on Amazon for that price. I think yours is closer to $3.50/pound, no?

Nice fine on that brand of TSP substitute. I'll go that route next time and save a few bucks.

Good catch! I forgot to add in for two tubs of Oxi. So now, the actual cost of homemade PBW per pound is more like $3.86/lb instead of $2.77/lb. That's still pretty good, imo.