Homemade PBW Recipe

[Ztup]

Subscribe.

Haha, just kidding.

But seriously, after a good 10 minutes of intense internet searching, I was unable to find sun oxygen cleaner... amazon and walmart (amongst a myriad of other online retailers) no longer carry it, apparently. Does anyone have any good substitutions for it?

I checked Dollar General near me and they don't have it anymore and went to their own house brand. I walked in the Save-a-Lot Food store next door and they had it. I bought all they had on the shelf. Checked back a couple weeks later and they still hadn't re-stocked. I'm wondering if they'll restock it or not. I'll check again and see if they re-stocked.

 

[BrunDog]

I would query if the refills are legit 5-Star Chemicals PBW. I buy the Oxy Free, TSP sub, and seventh generation per the recipe, all bought via Amazon.

 

[MagicMatt]

Interesting, I just figured that was the going rate these days. Y'all made me question the price so I checked an old receipt and sure enough it's actually $15 for 4lb refill. So more like $3.75/lb. I don't know why I had $12 stuck in my head, I've been going on that assumption for a while now. Oops.

I would query if the refills are legit 5-Star Chemicals PBW.

It is legit PBW though. He gets the 50lb buckets (actually a palette of them I believe) and divvies it up.

Dude, that's super cheap! The best deal I've found (in a reasonable amount; I don't have the room to store 50 lbs of the stuff at a time) is $50 for an 8 lb jar... that's $6.25/lb.

Looking online, the cheapest I see is ritebrew.com has a 4lb refill for $15.99. That's $4/lb, not too shabby I suppose if you don't have a local source.

They have the 8lb for $42.49 though ($5.31/lb), if you wanted a cheaper source for that quantity. Also the 50lb from them is $159.99 ($3.20/lb).

 

[eric19312]

Sorry to side track your thought MagicMatt. Your original question was at $3/lb why are we looking go homemade? So its really $4/lb...I think your question is still valid.

This is a hobby that attracts a lot of engineers. My guess is more than a few are following this thread (I'm one too). I think it is the challenge not the economics. The economics are just part of the story to add a little sizzle. Sort of like the many debates about the cost of homebrew.

But I think you are right. At $4/lb I'm pretty happy using the brand formula. I use maybe 4 oz in a typical brew session thats about $1...and I split that cost with my brewing friend...

 

[BrunDog]

Likewise engineer here... And I sincerely value my time. But this is one area where I have been able to justify the cost as it seemed like a lot of $$ going to PBW.

Really what is needed is legit PBW competition. That will drive price down.

 

[Ztup]

Likewise engineer here... And I sincerely value my time. But this is one area where I have been able to justify the cost as it seemed like a lot of $$ going to PBW.

Really what is needed is legit PBW competition. That will drive price down.

I agree on that. I think the problem may be the patent though. Wonder when that runs out...

Hrmm...looking at the patent linked in the first post...
Nov 6, 2001 FP Expired due to failure to pay maintenance fee
Effective date: 20010902

I'm no legal expert but...

 

[atoughram]

Is this even still an issue with PBW being so low cost now? I get that when this was written 3 years ago PBW was more expensive (looks like up to $9/lb, yikes!). But now I routinely get 4lb refills from my LHBS for $12 ($3/lb), so it would seem that it may actually be more expensive to create your own now when you factor in spending time sourcing the ingredients and mixing it yourself, etc.

That same 4# tub at my LHBS is $29 - nearly $7.50/pound.

 

[MagicMatt]

That same 4# tub at my LHBS is $29 - nearly $7.50/pound.

To clarify it's not the 4lb tub I was talking about, but a "refill", which is just 4lbs of PBW in a sealed bag, that you pour into your empty 4lb tub (that you already own). It's just a 50lb bucket that is broken down into 4lb bags.

 

[Deckers_Beers]

I agree on that. I think the problem may be the patent though. Wonder when that runs out...

Hrmm...looking at the patent linked in the first post...
Nov 6, 2001 FP Expired due to failure to pay maintenance fee
Effective date: 20010902

I'm no legal expert but...

Soooo... who wants to become a millionaire and create the only commercially-available PBW competition?

 

[soccerdad]

Brulosopher did a segment on cleaning using Alkaline Brewery Wash. It's on his site under 'cleaning'. More Beer has it

http://www.morebeer.com/products/craft-meister-alkaline-brewery-wash.html

$29 for 5 lbs so a bit more than $5 a pound.

What intrigued me were the tablets geared to a 6 G carboy

 

[cfrazier77]

I used to use just oxyclean, now I am using this recipe and it works much better.

 

[BrunDog]

I have been happy with the recipe too. Buying from Amazon, 48oz Oxy Free, 32 oz TSP Sub, 20 oz 7th Gen ends up at $3.61 / lb to my door.

 

[BrunDog]

Brulosopher did a segment on cleaning using Alkaline Brewery Wash. It's on his site under 'cleaning'. More Beer has it

http://www.morebeer.com/products/craft-meister-alkaline-brewery-wash.html

$29 for 5 lbs so a bit more than $5 a pound.

What intrigued me were the tablets geared to a 6 G carboy

The description for ABW says it is different than Oxygen based cleaners, but if you look at the SDS for ABW, it seems it has basically the same active ingredients?

 

[kombat]

I really want to stay away from Oxiclean... I know a lot of people use it, but plenty of folks also say to NEVER use it... so I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I've never heard anything along these lines. What have you heard about Oxyclean? What's the (alleged) problem with it?

 

[poptarts]

target online has 75oz of detergent for 6.50 a box and oxyclean free (3lb) for 6.90 with a buy 2 get 5$ gift card. And free shipping on orders over 25.
So 2 oxy free and 1 pack of detergent runs 20$ but that's twice the detergent I need. I need to find something else for 5$ to get free shipping then turn around and use the 5$ off gift card and pick up 2 more oxy free perhaps and make a double batch of this stuff on the cheap. Target does have mason jars and beer glasses etc on sale at the moment too.

EDIT: Chocolate for SWMBO, pushes cart to $25 for the free shipping. Smooth as hell right there.
EDIT2: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FZRSMDA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 sodium metasilicate cheapest I can find. and its prime so win win. $12 a bag is cheaper than original recipe quotes even

 

[Deckers_Beers]

I've never heard anything along these lines. What have you heard about Oxyclean? What's the (alleged) problem with it?

You know it's funny...

When I was doing heavy research on PBW alternatives last week I found all these posts talking about how Oxiclean isn't a good substitute because it can leave chemical residues (like bleach does) or fragrances that will affect the final product (and I now know if you use oxiclean FREE that isn't an issue)...

but now that I'm trying to find that info to link to, I can't seem to find much of anything against it besides individual preference. Perhaps all those threads are much older, and so they aren't coming up as easily without a deep search. Seems to me that the general consensus on the interwebs is that it works almost as well, and I'm seeing info on adding in the Red Devil TSP in other places as well.

I think I may just try the Oxiclean Free, TSP & 7th Generation recipe once I'm out of my current stock of PBW.

 

[jtratcliff]

I've had oxyclean leave a residue on bottles after a prolonged soak (days to weeks) but not after a few hours (which is more than enough to remove labels for instance). But even that comes off with a short soak in star san. I believe the other stuff added to the oxy to approximate PBW act to reduce the chalky residue.

I think Oxyclean can pit aluminum if left too long, as well. But then so will PBW, since the main ingredient is the same as oxyclean...

 

[akthor]

The only Seventh Generation dish detergent I see in Amazon is a 50 oz unscented version. Is this the right one to use?

 

[MaxStout]

Here, Midwest/Northern gets $30 for 4 lbs. of PBW, $50 for 8 lbs. My LHBS is a little cheaper, at $28/4 lbs. OxiClean brand is about $10 for 5lbs. at Wally World, and my success with that has been close to that of PBW. Close enough to where I cannot justify paying almost 4X as much for PBW. At $2/lb., it's a no-brainer for me.

Someone earlier mentioned the two patents for PBW. The patentee failed to pay maintenance fees, so those patents have since expired and the invention has now fallen into the public domain. We are all free to make it, market it, etc. Even if Five Star HAD paid the USPTO fees, the later patent (5,789,361) would expire in March 2016 anyway.

 

[Ztup]

The only Seventh Generation dish detergent I see in Amazon is a 50 oz unscented version. Is this the right one to use?

That is it, as long as it's the powder, not the liquid or pods.

 

[poptarts]

just made some of this with the links I posted earlier. Very happy with results works much better than just oxi clean alone.

 

[BumpyAZ]

I ended up finding it at my Target. Not sure why couldn't find it there in the first place (I seem to have a problem find stuff right in front of my face, or so I've been told). I couldn't source the TSP sub, so I went with the real thing. My diy pbw seems to be doing the trick!

Curious since I can't find the TSP90 locally and am planning to use the real thing too, did you still use the same ratios that the OP suggested or did you go closer to the 70/30 split proposed for the real deal TSP and add in some 7th generation detergent?

 

[phug]

I've been using trisodiumphosphate as a straight sub for tsp90/sodium meta silicate at the ratios in the thread with no issues

 

[motobrewer]

anyone figure out how to cut down the foam?

 

[poptarts]

I honestly have not noticed much foam at all

 

[DurtyChemist]

Real TSP and TSP90 are different. Look at the MSDS. TSP stopped being used for fears of phosphates in water. I use TSP and dishwasher soap and it works great.

 

[phug]

Real TSP and TSP90 are different. Look at the MSDS. TSP stopped being used for fears of phosphates in water.

You're right. Unfortunately it's a pain in the rear trying to get tsp90/sodium metasilicate where I am

 

[kombat]

You're right. Unfortunately it's a pain in the rear trying to get tsp90/sodium metasilicate where I am

You're in Canada, TSP isn't banned here. You don't have to find TSP/90. You can buy the real thing here. Go to Home Depot, it's in the cleaning product section. It's in a blue carton, shaped like a milk carton.

 

[phug]

You're in Canada, TSP isn't banned here. You don't have to find TSP/90. You can buy the real thing here. Go to Home Depot, it's in the cleaning product section. It's in a blue carton, shaped like a milk carton.

yup, and that's what I've been using. and it works just fine.

 

[DurtyChemist]

You're right. Unfortunately it's a pain in the rear trying to get tsp90/sodium metasilicate where I am

Interesting. Well like I said I made it that way and it worked. Just made another batch with oxiclean and TSP based off another website and it seems to work as well too. I think TSP90 is more expensive than TSP here in 'Murica