Home improvement salesmen rant

[ThaBrewFather06]

Yes, there is such thing as skilled labor but does it really take a roofing PHD to lay shingle?

BTW, where do these roofing companies that employ american workers exist in the south? Every time I see a crew, no matter the company, they are are not speaking English.[/QUOTE]

Haha good point I was talking more about my line of work than roofing really, but didn't make that clear. This has been a good discussion tonight. I don't really know roofing that well but I wouldn't want a non contractor to at least supervise my roof being put on.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Yes, there is such thing as skilled labor but does it really take a roofing PHD to lay shingle?

BTW, where do these roofing companies that employ american workers exist in the south? Every time I see a crew, no matter the company, they are are not speaking English.

Haha good point I was talking more about my line of work than roofing really, but didn't make that clear. This has been a good discussion tonight. I don't really know roofing that well but I wouldn't want a non contractor to at least supervise my roof being put on.[/QUOTE]

Like I was saying, $60 an hour for a plumber.. ok fair enough.

$9 k for a one day, 6 man job with at least 3 k profit built into this number? Just disgust me to think that some people are dumb enough to pay so much.

I asked the salesman how many roofs they do a week. He told me he runs 3 crews of 6 and they do on average 15 roof jobs a week. Do that math.

Perhaps I should get in the roofing business..

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Yes, there is such thing as skilled labor but does it really take a roofing PHD to lay shingle?

BTW, where do these roofing companies that employ american workers exist in the south? Every time I see a crew, no matter the company, they are are not speaking English.

Haha good point I was talking more about my line of work than roofing really, but didn't make that clear. This has been a good discussion tonight. I don't really know roofing that well but I wouldn't want a non contractor to at least supervise my roof being put on.[/QUOTE]

All it takes is one supervisor who knows what he is doing to direct these guys who are working so that they know and understand how to properly do the job.

If a job is done improperly by hispanic labor, it is almost always the supervisors fault because while the labors are working, doing what they think is right he is in the truck eating a Bojangles biscuit talking to his wife on the phone.

 

[Jukas]

As you can probably tell, I favor migrant workers because they represent the values and work ethic that use to be present in this country. Now we are all entitled. Most of these guys work hard, long hours for very little and never complain.

So, you do SEO/Web Marketing work spending long hours with few breaks on client websites for a low wage without complaint right?

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

That work ethic is still alive and well in this country. Immigrant workers are exploited as modern day slaves working for pennies on the dollar to Americans because they pack 10 of them in a 1 bedroom apartment and take their wages back to their country. Hiring a $12 an hour Juan Valdez is akin to Nike outsourcing their labor on sneakers to a sweat shop in China, it is part of what is ruining this country.

In America the free market determines what a job is worth, not what someone "thinks" its worth.

Immigrant workers are in no way slaves are you kidding? Never heard of a slave that willing-fully illegally crosses the border to work for slave wages.

What many don't see is that the US is evolving. A greater percentage work in this country is shifting towards the service industry, leaving the grunt work for less fortunate people who see it as a good paying job.

If you want to point the finger at someone, point it at the labor unions. They are the reason why american manufacturing companies have a choice to go bankrupt of go overseas.

Its a global economy and manual labor is no longer considered a good job paying job.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

So, you do SEO/Web Marketing work spending long hours with few breaks on client websites for a low wage without complaint right?

Part of your statement is correct. No, I don't complain because I have no one to complain to. If my job sucks its my own fault because I created it.

I work long hours by choice because I enjoy being productive and enjoy making money.

As for low wages, I keep a roof over my head and enjoy an occasional PB&J sandwich.

 

[ThaBrewFather06]

Understood but Juan making 12$ an hour doesn't have a supervisor or he would charge more.

 

[Blademaker]

I have a general handy man, damn near on speed dial, that takes care of all my houses/rental property. He comes running when I call, and I pay him a flat rate per day. I pay for supplies.
He's worth every penny, but I'll never tell him that.

 

[ThaBrewFather06]

Also to me if you get charged 9000 dollars and it takes the crew one day the same crew could just mess around and make it take 3 days and you would feel as bad, but because they are good at what they do you want to punish them if you get a good they they work like clockwork. 3000$ profit is not that bad to me working in the hot sun with the danger of falling and salaries to pay. Each of those 6 guys make at least 15$ per hour which is around 600$ per day n labor plus you have gas cost for your trucks, insurance of around 25$ per day on big companies, and permit fees, etc... So the company probably is clearing around 1500$ in my opinion that's a reasonable profit for re roofing a house. The owner probably has a salary of 80k a year

 

[liquiditynerd]

Man, this is what kills me. Literally and figuratively. So u think they have general liability insurance, workers comp, and benefits. For 4@(63 sake, u think they pay taxes on those earnings, social security, Corp tax?

Yea you got Them on the price, awesome walmart should start selling roofs. so I have to compete with this? You been on a roof in the south? It sux. Extrapolate that forty years and guess what, theyre broke, financially and physically.

I know it's expensive but that's the way it goes. Roof it yourself if you want to save money. Do u or don't u support your community?

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Also to me if you get charged 9000 dollars and it takes the crew one day the same crew could just mess around and make it take 3 days and you would feel as bad, but because they are good at what they do you want to punish them if you get a good they they work like clockwork. 3000$ profit is not that bad to me working in the hot sun with the danger of falling and salaries to pay. Each of those 6 guys make at least 15$ per hour which is around 600$ per day n labor plus you have gas cost for your trucks, insurance of around 25$ per day on big companies, and permit fees, etc... So the company probably is clearing around 1500$ in my opinion that's a reasonable profit for re roofing a house. The owner probably has a salary of 80k a year

Paying full price ($9,000) the owner will put a lot more than $1,500 in his pocket from that one day job. Take cost of materials, labor, and any other cost imaginable (insurance, office expenses, office salary, vehicle expenses) and I can say with certainty that he would be putting more like $3,000 in his pocket.

Lots of wiggle room here.

 

[liquiditynerd]

Sry I just re read your post. Yes those types of salesman do gouge. They are on the other end of the spectrum from my rant. So I do agree, when I bid a job I do it via experience AND education, no it's not a phd but it is a masters. When my bid is honest I get the low balled cheapskates and the high end "pros" . In the end I get the call to come "inspect" their work. So, that's where my rant arose. Not against you actually. Just been rough lately.

 

[brewguyver]

No, we usually employ only Americans and believe in a fair wage.

Barring hurricanes, the roof in MA takes significantly more of a beating in than in NC, plus cost of living, housing costs, and raw materials are higher. That leads to significantly higher costs for everything related to construction. Hence the higher roofing costs.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Sry I just re read your post. Yes those types of salesman do gouge. They are on the other end of the spectrum from my rant. So I do agree, when I bid a job I do it via experience AND education, no it's not a phd but it is a masters. When my bid is honest I get the low balled cheapskates and the high end "pros" . In the end I get the call to come "inspect" their work. So, that's where my rant arose. Not against you actually. Just been rough lately.

Someone who is experienced - meaning they can diagnose the problem and fix it properly I am willing to pay a reasonable price. I don't expect an experienced plumber who has his own business to work for crack head wages.

Getting a $9,000 estimate on a $4,500 roof job is an insult. Hey Mr. roofer, do you think I'm that f'ing stupid?

 

[whoaru99]

Yes, there is such thing as skilled labor but does it really take a roofing PHD to lay shingle?

Some aspects of it do, relatively speaking, to do it right anyway.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Some aspects of it do, relatively speaking, to do it right anyway.

You are correct. There is a right and a wrong way to put a roof on.

For instance, I have soffit rot where the roof/ siding was not properly flashed. In all likelihood, this was a result of an inexperienced foreman who spent his time eating biscuits and playing with his self in the truck instead of doing his job. The immigrant workers who were doing the grunt work were just doing it the way they thought it was suppose to be done.

I spent a few years as a manager and I can tell you that you can train a monkey to do just about any manual labor job. It's not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination.

The responsibility in doing the job correctly lays in the hands of the foreman, not the grunt labors.

 

[whoaru99]

Most people who know what they're doing would probably rate their job as not rocket science, except for maybe rocket scientists.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Most people who know what they're doing would probably rate their job as not rocket science, except for maybe rocket scientists.

This is true. For most of us, learning how to do a job only takes a few days. Becoming a master at what we do can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few years, in most cases the former.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I totally agree and if this helps I have found a cool new site where you can find quality skilled labor... Check out MOD EDIT Link Removed ***.***.**

MMM.. more spam

 

[liquiditynerd]

Someone who is experienced - meaning they can diagnose the problem and fix it properly I am willing to pay a reasonable price. I don't expect an experienced plumber who has his own business to work for crack head wages.

Getting a $9,000 estimate on a $4,500 roof job is an insult. Hey Mr. roofer, do you think I'm that f'ing stupid?

Your right on that. But youre also smarter than most people he gives estimates to. Figure if he's getting that on one or two bids and can knock it out that's pretty nice mark up. If it's an insurance claim than they figure what the hell. I cut out roofing when I was in my twenties, hard as all he'll, dangerous and little profit margin.

I feel the same way about taking my car to the shop. 300 for brake pads, $40' 30 mins and a beer. Done. If most people knew what an o2 sensor was that little check engine light wouldn't be going cha Ching so often.

 

[whoaru99]

If most people knew what an o2 sensor was that little check engine light wouldn't be going cha Ching so often.

Naw, you'd get the business anyway. You'd just have to work a bit harder to get the broken off old one out first.

 

[liquiditynerd]

Naw, you'd get the business anyway. You'd just have to work a bit harder to get the broken off old one out first.

Ha! U got that right.

 

[Kelvin22]

Hmm well i think you have to define everything before hiring a man because any small thing can make a big trouble. and always hire a trusted people because its more good and you are tension free. Good luck.