Home Distillation Prohibition

[TxBrew]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/home-distilling-bill-house-representatives-55459/

This thread is a bit old but covers a bill that would have made home distilling legal on the Federal level.

I think it would be great to end the prohibition of home distilling but I don't think the drive is there like home brewing since there are fewer spirit drinkers wanting to craft their own. I'm sure the lobby is quite extensive as well to keep it illegal.

Anyone researched the topic in depth, discussed it with politicians or know of any more recent legislation?

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Don't know of any more recent legislative efforts.

You are right though, it will never see the light of day ... but not necessarily due to any lack of interest but instead due to the governments reliance on the (tax) profits. They demand a serious cut of the Vig, and they are determined to get it.
As it was noted in the Prohibition PBS series ... it was actually alcohol tax that literally funded the government before the introduction of the federal income tax ... it's just that lucrative.

Yup, like you point out ... and then there's the lobbyists.

Home distillation is quite dangerous too. The range of safe temp can be difficult to control and though many folks wouldn't use a sandbox to control temperature like they did in the old days, still ... accidentally exceeding the margin of error would be unpleasant.
A long time ago I lived in Tennessee briefly and became <ahem> acquainted with distilling ... strictly from an informational standpoint mind you ... uh, but I can attest to that it is ... uh ... said to be ... a nervous pursuit (and not because of the Revenuers!). As well most people wouldn't find a singlings run very palatable (the first pass thru the still) as it's still loaded with slobber and does not compare to the flavor of even cheap store bought booze. It's doublings and triplings that would taste to us closer to the product we are familiar with ... but those additional runs are basically cooking an increasingly alcohol laden liquid. Um, got a light?


(edit note: corrected misstatement re: temperatures)

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Don't know of any more recent legislative efforts.

You are right though, it will never see the light of day ... but not necessarily due to any lack of interest but instead due to the governments reliance on the (tax) profits. They demand a serious cut of the Vig, and they are determined to get it.
As it was noted in the Prohibition PBS series ... it was actually alcohol tax that literally funded the government before the introduction of the federal income tax ... it's just that lucrative.

And one of the first things the people revolted against: Whiskey Rebellion. The first occupy movement.

 

[Airborneguy]

I've recently had my first 'taste' of the forbidden fruit and found it quite enjoyable. Hopefully they find some way to legalize it because I would to try it out myself.

 

[jtrux]

Another problem is the foreshots are poisonous. People can get into home brewing with out risk of poisoning just possible bad tasting beer. As far as home distilling people could end up dead or blind if they don't know what they are doing

 

[Brewpastor]

Another problem is the foreshots are poisonous. People can get into home brewing with out risk of poisoning just possible bad tasting beer. As far as home distilling people could end up dead or blind if they don't know what they are doing

That is why it is important to get it out of the closet and into the light of day where people can learn proper technique and make good, safe product. It isn't rocket science, and just because it is illegal does not mean people will not try it. I don't need the government to protect me from my own stupidity. I could use their trust to use my intelligence however.

 

[passedpawn]

That is why it is important to get it out of the closet and into the light of day where people can learn proper technique and make good, safe product. It isn't rocket science, and just because it is illegal does not mean people will not try it. I don't need the government to protect me from my own stupidity. I could use their trust to use my intelligence however.

Right on. I abhor the idea of being protected from my own actions. From a very american perspective, how dare they.

 

[funkapottomous]

I used to play in a band with on older guy who homebrewed and distilled.
He had a still in his garage next to his homebrew setup, because everyone (including the police officers who lived on the street) knew he brewed so they never questioned it, thinking it was just brewing equipment.

Made some pretty damn good whiskey.

 

[Jacob_Marley]

And one of the first things the people revolted against: Whiskey Rebellion. The first occupy movement.

Damn fine cause.

 

[weirdboy]

Don't know of any more recent legislative efforts.

You are right though, it will never see the light of day ... but not necessarily due to any lack of interest but instead due to the governments reliance on the (tax) profits. They demand a serious cut of the Vig, and they are determined to get it.
As it was noted in the Prohibition PBS series ... it was actually alcohol tax that literally funded the government before the introduction of the federal income tax ... it's just that lucrative.

Yup, like you point out ... and then there's the lobbyists.

Home distillation is quite dangerous too. It's a relatively small range of temperature above which alcohol is vaporized and leaves the mash ... but not so hot that it ignites. Most folks wouldn't use a sandbox to control temperature like they did in the old days, but still ... accidentally exceeding the margin of error would be unpleasant.
A long time ago I lived in Tennessee briefly and became <ahem> acquainted with distilling ... strictly from an informational standpoint mind you ... uh, but I can attest to that it is ... uh ... said to be ... a nervous pursuit (and not because of the Revenuers!). As well most people wouldn't find a singlings run very palatable (the first pass thru the still) as it's still loaded with slobber and does not compare to the flavor of even cheap store bought booze. It's doublings and triplings that would taste to us closer to the product we are familiar with ... but those additional runs are basically cooking an increasingly alcohol laden liquid. Um, got a light?

I thought you could use a thumper to make first passes much more palatable, presuming we are talking about pot stills and not reflux stills where you can fractionate the distillate and get very high quality in a single pass.

 

[Jacob_Marley]

I thought you could use a thumper to make first passes much more palatable, presuming we are talking about pot stills and not reflux stills where you can fractionate the distillate and get very high quality in a single pass.

Nope ... just the ol fashioned pot n' worm.
Yah, you bet, slobber boxes and thump kegs are important, but the singlings run is still going to be unrefined enough to make it unpalatable to most folks ... and it's still important to make repeated runs thru the still for other purposes such as the removal of toxic alcohols such as methanol. (going out on thin ice here ...) Boil it thru at around *** (ETOH actually has a higher flash point but if you're using an open flame and a sandbox, it is a definite risk ... leaks are also a real risk) ... run it again at around *** and a third at *** discarding the first shot out of the pee hole. This should remove most of the methanol.
BUT ... I am NOT going to continue on this prohibited topic any further!!! and my POINT was that it is tricky to do and potentially dangerous ... but so is building and driving racecars ... so as others have pointed out, this is not to say the craft could not be made a great deal safer.

I have NO further comment about the process ... and nothing to add about legislation.

(

with humble contrition, JM)

 

[Randar]

Don't know of any more recent legislative efforts.

You are right though, it will never see the light of day ... but not necessarily due to any lack of interest but instead due to the governments reliance on the (tax) profits. They demand a serious cut of the Vig, and they are determined to get it.
As it was noted in the Prohibition PBS series ... it was actually alcohol tax that literally funded the government before the introduction of the federal income tax ... it's just that lucrative.

Yup, like you point out ... and then there's the lobbyists.

Home distillation is quite dangerous too. The range of safe temp can be difficult to control and though many folks wouldn't use a sandbox to control temperature like they did in the old days, still ... accidentally exceeding the margin of error would be unpleasant.
A long time ago I lived in Tennessee briefly and became <ahem> acquainted with distilling ... strictly from an informational standpoint mind you ... uh, but I can attest to that it is ... uh ... said to be ... a nervous pursuit (and not because of the Revenuers!). As well most people wouldn't find a singlings run very palatable (the first pass thru the still) as it's still loaded with slobber and does not compare to the flavor of even cheap store bought booze. It's doublings and triplings that would taste to us closer to the product we are familiar with ... but those additional runs are basically cooking an increasingly alcohol laden liquid. Um, got a light?


(edit note: corrected misstatement re: temperatures)

In the interest of putting the real dangers in perspective (aside from noting that 95% efficiency can be obtained in a simple, compared to the brewer DIY forum here, single stage reflux still, not requiring multiple pot still runs to concentrate to barrel strength or higher if that's your thing)... Have a quick read:

How dangerous are the various fusel oils ? I've got some of them listed below.
The ones with toxicity data listed are ...
Methanol : usual fatal dose 100-250 mL
1-Pentanol : LD50 (rat) 3030 mg/kg
3-Pentanol : LD50 (rat) 1870 mg/kg
Compare this to the amounts present in distilled spirits. The data in Wheeler & Willmotts "Spirits unlimited - a complete guide to home distilling" gives :
Home distilled spirit (untreated): methanol 0.0067%, ethanol 99.632%, fusils 0.361%
Commercial vodka: methanol 0.013%, ethanol 99.507%, fusils 0.48%
Poor quality home distilled spirit : methanol 0.0186%, ethanol 98.453%, and fusils 1.528%
If you're talking about untreated spirits as being dangerous, then to reach the LD50's that are published, you'd need to consume 149 L to be affected by the methanol, or for a 90kg bloke, about 58 L for the pentanol, from the "good" homemade stuff. That would be one hell of a session ! Even on their "poor quality" brew you'd need 11 L for the fusels. Stock standard pissed-as-a-newt high-school-student alcohol poisoning is the greater problem.

 

[Randar]

And I am all for the legalization, even though I am not much of a spirits drinker, it would be another fun hobby to share the results of with friends and family. This is just another extension of prohibition era laws persisting for no good reason but a powerful lobby that makes it sound dangerous and scary...

 

[Pumbaa]

And I am all for the legalization, even though I am not much of a spirits drinker, it would be another fun hobby to share the results of with friends and family. This is just another extension of prohibition era laws persisting for no good reason but a powerful lobby that makes it sound dangerous and scary...

the home distillation laws go back well b4 prohibition, it's all about the tax$$

 

[Randar]

the home distillation laws go back well b4 prohibition, it's all about the tax$$

And in those days, the safety of actual production and limited knowledge of advanced still designs were also part of that equation from what little I have pieced together. I would assume taxes and revenue is always a safe assumption as sell. But like homebrewing, it's a tiny percentage of national consumption even if legal and as popular as homebrewing. I think its of great interest to homebrewers because we already have a big chunk of the equipment for a wide range of spirit production.

 

[nukinfuts29]

That is why it is important to get it out of the closet and into the light of day where people can learn proper technique and make good, safe product. It isn't rocket science, and just because it is illegal does not mean people will not try it. I don't need the government to protect me from my own stupidity. I could use their trust to use my intelligence however.

AMEN!!

If people were allowed to do it they would learn the right way. A correctly running distillation process is perfectly safe. If one blows up it's because they are more focused on hiding the hobby than on safety and process.

The reality is it's distillation, not meth.

 

[weirdboy]

I think the singlings run is only unpalatable if you run it hot and fast, like your typical back country moonshiner is liable to do. That is also what makes it both "dangerous" and nasty tasting, because you are running it too fast to cut off the heads and tails appropriately.


But anyway regarding legislation, I feel like there is still a chance that something could come about. There has really been a resurgence in small/craft distillers in the US over the past few years. Many craft brewers are adding distilleries to their operations, and there's a ton of nano distilleries making excellent products and bringing a lot of more public interest to the whole process.