Hill Farmstead thread

[acurtis]

Apparently it's a permanent new policy due to the disgusting behavior of people at this past release.

Yea, holding back bottles for the next week so people get shut out and purposely slowing down the process so people had to wait longer.

 

[BusinessSloth]

Yea, holding back bottles for the next week so people get shut out and purposely slowing down the process so people had to wait longer.

 

[smonice1]

I've only been on TalkBeer a day now but god am I happy to see memes again

 

[silentjay]

the problem is that he's in the middle of ******* nowhere. if you want to get there at 8:30 but end up getting there at 8:15, are you going to drive 20 minutes each way to go somewhere to get a coffee? .

Like I said, if it was a few people coming in at 8:15, 8:20, it wouldn't have been a big deal... it was the amount of people that were trying to "play the game" and got there 2 hours early that ruined it.

I know a few of the people who were there at 6-6:30... They knew what they were doing.

If it weren't for those dozens of people, getting there 20 minutes early probably wouldn't have irked them too too much.

 

[silentjay]

Yea, holding back bottles for the next week so people get shut out and purposely slowing down the process so people had to wait longer.

They held back NO bottles. did anyone get shut out on anything besides DBD?

they did have some bottles left over, which are going on the shelf.

 

[Don2]

They held back NO bottles. did anyone get shut out on anything besides DBD?

they did have some bottles left over, which are going on the shelf.

There were people in line who got 0 bottles.

 

[tehzachatak]

They held back NO bottles. did anyone get shut out on anything besides DBD?

they did have some bottles left over, which are going on the shelf.

This is inaccurate. A lot of people did not get, for example, Satsuma Flora - which was on the shelf today.

 

[franch]

They held back NO bottles. did anyone get shut out on anything besides DBD?

they did have some bottles left over, which are going on the shelf.

false. they sold thursday's allotment of Satsuma Flora, and held the rest for today.

 

[Osyrus]

Bottles aren't stored on site, so it's not like they were sitting in plain view and just not being sold. And seeing that Damon and Flora were both shelf releases to the point of ~300 left for the bottle release day, it would appear the same intention was carried out to enable locals/visitors to actually buy Satsuma off the shelf given the release size, it just happened to be after (which is not a judgment about the decision, just assessing what happened). I don't think he anticipated the crowd that showed up (evidenced by his suggestion for people not to show up).

There were people who showed up long before 6:30 even... several guys told me they got there at 8 the night before and drove back and forth frequently through the night to see if anyone was parking yet.

 

[silentjay]

false. they sold thursday's allotment of Satsuma Flora, and held the rest for today.

they sold the 300 they said they were going to set aside, correct?

and they also used social media to tell people that there were more than 300 people in line and not to bother coming that day if you were looking for satsuma.

Holding back bottles, I took as meaning, they held back from what they promised to release that day

 

[tehzachatak]

they sold the 300 they said they were going to set aside, correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shaun said he would set aside 300 BB Damon and 300 Flora for the release day that included DBD and Satsuma Flora, which had not been previously released unless you were in CW.

There was no mention of setting aside 300 Satsuma Flora.

Just to be clear (I feel like this is turning into my self-righteous posts on the old HF thread, so please report me if I'm sounding like a dick), I don't CARE, nor think it was the right or wrong thing to only sell some. It's just what HAPPENED.

 

[silentjay]

they sold the 300 they said they were going to set aside, correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shaun said he would set aside 300 BB Damon and 300 Flora for the release day that included DBD and Satsuma Flora, which had not been previously released unless you were in CW.

There was no mention of setting aside 300 Satsuma Flora.

Just to be clear (I feel like this is turning into my self-righteous posts on the old HF thread, so please report me if I'm sounding like a dick), I don't CARE, nor think it was the right or wrong thing to only sell some. It's just what HAPPENED.

read my edit. I elaborated a bit to clarify.
It was apparent that they were planning for 300 people, though.

 

[tehzachatak]

read my edit. I elaborated a bit to clarify.
It was apparent that they were planning for 300 people, though.

right, that's correct. they just never said anything about only releasing some of the Satsuma Flora that day. personally, I think it was a good call, would have been weird to release <300 DBD, 300 Flora, 300 Damon, and then burn through like 1000 Satsuma flora, which they clearly didn't wanna do because otherwise they could have just set the limit higher.

 

[Don2]

right, that's correct. they just never said anything about only releasing some of the Satsuma Flora that day. personally, I think it was a good call, would have been weird to release <300 DBD, 300 Flora, 300 Damon, and then burn through like 1000 Satsuma flora, which they clearly didn't wanna do because otherwise they could have just set the limit higher.

I agree that was pretty obviously the plan also. And a lot of people just went to the growler line once they realized they were >300, but some did stay in line and got shutout. I too have no problems with how it was ran. But then again, I get angry BMs on the other site for being a fanboi

 

[silentjay]

right, that's correct. they just never said anything about only releasing some of the Satsuma Flora that day. personally, I think it was a good call, would have been weird to release <300 DBD, 300 Flora, 300 Damon, and then burn through like 1000 Satsuma flora, which they clearly didn't wanna do because otherwise they could have just set the limit higher.

usually, they have gauged how many people are in line, looked at what they have set aside for the release, and adjusted the limits (sometimes for the better) based on that, but it was clear from an early hour that this release was crazy.

You can't please everyone.

I was there the next day, and I'd consider myself a "regular" there, and I asked about any leftover satsuma or anything from the release and they didn't sell me any, so it's not like they were playing favorites.

They just got overwhelmed, I think.

 

[Osyrus]

Man, that next day was glorious. No one there. Hit the growler line x4 and it took just over 2 hours, and that includes chatting with people in the parking lot for a while. I've had single times through that lasted longer than that.

 

[tehzachatak]

usually, they have gauged how many people are in line, looked at what they have set aside for the release, and adjusted the limits (sometimes for the better) based on that, but it was clear from an early hour that this release was crazy.

You can't please everyone.

I was there the next day, and I'd consider myself a "regular" there, and I asked about any leftover satsuma or anything from the release and they didn't sell me any, so it's not like they were playing favorites.

They just got overwhelmed, I think.

For sure.

 

[silentjay]

I get angry BMs on the other site for being a fanboi

I get a lot of flack for being a "fanboi" as well, but it's just because I can see it from their side as well as the opposing side.

I had to work, so I couldn't make the release, but even if I had, I probably would have been shutout, cuz even I didn't predict the amount of people that would be there at such an early hour. Would I have been pissed if I went and got shut out? probably a little, yeah.

I actually was surprised that they did this release in this fashion. I thought that last year's Ann release was going to be the last "release event" they'd do.

 

[justforrazors]

I see both sides about reserving beer for the locals vs allowing people to go home empty-handed, as it may be. Shaun has said this himself multiple times- you can please some people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time. He did his best with the cards that were dealt. If I had to choose between helping people all over the country or helping those who are in my backyard, I know who I would choose though.

Almost all of his beer is sold in the state of Vermont. It isn't going to ruin him if two guys in Virginia get shut out, but it could have a much larger effect if the person who lived 30 minutes away did. I don't know, maybe I am wrong. That happened before once.

 

[Don2]

I get a lot of flack for being a "fanboi" as well, but it's just because I can see it from their side as well as the opposing side.

I had to work, so I couldn't make the release, but even if I had, I probably would have been shutout, cuz even I didn't predict the amount of people that would be there at such an early hour. Would I have been pissed if I went and got shut out? probably a little, yeah.

I actually was surprised that they did this release in this fashion. I thought that last year's Ann release was going to be the last "release event" they'd do.

We misjudged as well. Got there at 8:38, was lucky to get a DBD about 15 before they ran out. A lot of the regulars were a little slow. FujOnTap was directly in front of me. Hopefully this is the last time for these.

 

[Adam Jackson]

This "what's on the shelf" thread switched gears pretty fast.

I have been reading BA for a while, but didn't join so I saw all of the HFS threads pop up time to time. For the record to those of you that went to the release, I was volunteer performing the line count at the release in the crooked stave shirt. I got some anonymous **** via BA from people saying I couldn't count or I was misleading people when really, people holding places, skipping places or cutting in line messed my count up. Every time, I got a new number and I was honest with people that if they're in the 320+ range, they probably should get in the growler line.

but I digress on that one....at least no one came in to make fun of my dog being sick on that thread..in fact, I don't think anyone but Fuj and Dino recognized me which...thank god.

I was there today, bought some Flora Satsuma Since I didn't get any bottles on release day as a volunteer, it was really nice to be able to buy that satsuma since I missed out on it. I'm also a local to the brewery so there were some other patrons that were stoked to see something on the shelf that they opted out of getting due to the long lines. On release day, tons of locals came up while I was parking cars, saw the line and said "I just came to get some growlers I'll come back tomorrow"

As someone who directly benefits from shelf-releases, my opinion is insanely skewed but there are people within 30 minutes of the brewery (I'm 1 hour away) that go once a week for growlers and like trying the special stuff. I go every 2 weeks. They get shut out of festivals, bottle releases and special tap takeovers. Like most Vermonters, they don't have angst against the out of town beer geeks It's tourists that keep Vermont profitable and beautiful. We love the tourists and Shaun does a great job accommodating locals like selling some festival tickets on-site and putting bottles on the shelf early before a release. None of it is expected by us but, when I go into get a 2 Litre of Edward, it's always cool to see something I missed out on there on the shelf.

So, as a local, it's awesome.

The 2-3 comments about "onsite versus offsite" are valid. There is not easy way to get bottles onsite and, with a full-time staff of 4 people (maybe 5 now with Matt), there are rarely free hands to go and get another 10 cases of beer from a remote storage area many miles away. I'll add Shaun's Mom, Dad and Brother have a huge part in day to day operations of this brewery. I'd say at this point, it's "family owned" everyone pulls their weight and I doubt anyone on shaun's family is on the payroll. Off-site storage issues may be resolved with the current expansion but whatever, the online posted bottle counts via Shaun were 300 of Flora and Damon being set aside for the release and many assumed 300 each of DB Damon and Flora Satsuma. While the later 2 bottle counts were highly debated, the key thing is, if you were 301st in line, you missed out. I was never told bottle counts so honestly until today, I thought Flora satsuma was totally gone.

I can assure you that no one expected this turn out. You can hypothesize all you want but the 3 of us that actually took the day off work to volunteer for Shaun were told to arrive at 8:30. I pull up to a 2 mile long streak of cars and quickly started helping Shaun's dad park cars and then once that settled around 10AM, I began counting the line and helping Phil and Kerrie with retail stuff like moving boxes around and organizing kegs. It was a madhouse until about 3PM when I left to go home and take a nap. I got invited to a bottle share in stowe around 7PM but that's another hour of driving back north. no thanks but they did have DDG + DB damon and other awesome beers

So I guess I'm just posting here to say off-site is a valid reason why more beers weren't brought out for additional people and that release format is certainly going to be changing but I wouldn't hedge your bets on any single solution...I think HFS is still experimenting with various ideas and implementations and there is no conspiracy to sell out and for shaun to raise trade value of these beers In fact, every time trade value is brought up on any of these threads, it's funny because that's what this comes down to. People that didn't get bottles are mad and people that did get bottles are only looking to maximize their trades. The reason a lot of the ISOs aren't getting done isn't locals holding out for whalez, it's that most of us (myself included) aren't sending HFS beers anymore. The bottle limits are only going down, the work following HFS on Twitter and Facebook, taking off work, leaving work early and fighting crowds just to get 2 growlers makes HFS beer special to us. even if you're only 5 miles away, going to HFS is a solid afternoon of work each time. No one is doubting the beer is amazing but they're certainly not trading it anymore. It's too hard to get regardless of how far you journey. I still see locals in line on a Wednesday with their one growler and lamenting to me, "I just wanted some beer with my dinner. i live down the road. is it really a 2 hour wait?"

I'm not a fanboi. it's just that for me, Hill Farmstead and Alchemist are the closest breweries to me making good beer. I have Harpoon, Seven Barrel Brewery and Flying Goose OR I can drive an extra 25 minutes and get HIll Farmstead Growlers. Which would you do?

I may regret posting in this thread but I am happy to finally share some opinions and I'm really sorry but I am long-winded.

 

[Don2]

This "what's on the shelf" thread switched gears pretty fast.

I have been reading BA for a while, but didn't join so I saw all of the HFS threads pop up time to time. For the record to those of you that went to the release, I was the line counter in the crooked stave shirt. I got some anonymous **** via BA from people saying I couldn't count or I was misleading people when really, people holding places, skipping places or cutting in line messed the count up.

but I digress on that one....at least no one came in to make fun of my dog being sick on that thread..in fact, I don't think anyone but Fuj and Dino recognized me.

I was there today, bought some Flora Satsuma Since I didn't get any bottles on release day as a volunteer, it was really nice to be able to buy that satsuma since I missed out on it. I'm also a local to the brewery so there were some other patrons that were stoked to see something on the shelf that they opted out of getting due to the long lines tons of locals came up while I was parking cars, saw the line and said "I just came to get some growlers I'll come back tomorrow"

As someone who directly benefits from shelf-releases, my opinion is insanely skewed but there are people within 30 minutes of the brewery (I'm 1 hour away) that go once a week for growlers and like trying the special stuff. They get shut out of festivals, bottle releases and special tap takeovers. Like most Vermonters, they don't have angst against the out of town beer geeks It's tourists that keep Vermont profitable and beautiful. We love the tourists and Shaun does a great job accommodating locals like selling some festival tickets on-site and putting bottles on the shelf early before a release. None of it is expected by us but, when I go into get a 2 Litre of Edward, it's always cool to see something I missed out on there on the shelf.

So, as a local, it's awesome.

The 2-3 comments about "onsite versus offsite" are valid. There is not easy way to get bottles onsite and, with a full-time staff of 4 people (maybe 5 now), there are rarely free hands to go and get another 10 cases of beer from a remote storage area many miles away. This may be resolved with the current expansion but whatever, the quoted bottle counts via Shaun were 300 of Flora and Damon being set aside for the release and many assumed 300 each of DB Damon and Flora Satsuma. While the later 2 bottle counts were highly debated, the key thing is, if you were 301st in line, you missed out.

I can assure you that no one expected this turn out. You can hypothesize all you want but the 3 of us that actually took the day off work to volunteer were told to arrive at 8:30. I pull up to a 2 mile long streak of cars and quickly started helping Shaun's dad park cars and then once that settled around 10AM, I began counting the line and helping Phil and Kerrie with retail stuff like moving boxes around and organizing kegs. It was a madhouse until about 3PM when I left.

So I guess I'm just posting here to say off-site is a valid reason why more beers weren't brought out for additional people and that release format is certainly going to be changing but I wouldn't hedge your bets on any single solution...I think HFS is still experimenting with various ideas and implementations and there is no conspiracy to sell out and for shaun to raise trade value of these beers In fact, every time trade value is brought up on any of these threads, it's funny because that's what this comes down to. People that didn't get bottles are mad and people that did get bottles are only looking to maximize their trades. The reason a lot of the ISOs aren't getting done isn't locals holding out for whalez, it's that most of us (myself included) aren't sending HFS beers anymore. The bottle limits are only going down, the work following HFS on Twitter and Facebook, taking off work, leaving work early and fighting crowds just to get 2 growlers makes HFS beer special to us. even if you're only 5 miles away, going to HFS is a solid afternoon of work each time. No one is doubting the beer is amazing but they're certainly not trading it anymore. It's too hard to get regardless of how far you journey

I'm not a fanboi. it's just that for me, Hill Farmstead and Alchemist are the closest breweries to me making good beer. I have Harpoon, Seven Barrel Brewery and Flying Goose OR I can drive an extra 25 minutes and get HIll Farmstead Growlers. Which would you do?

I may regret posting in this thread but I am happy to finally share some opinions and I'm really sorry but I am long-winded.

Adam, I recognized you! And yeah there was a lot of Adam Jackson can't ******* count going on after that.
As far as your post goes, I have never used this before but holy crap tl;dr

And clearly, you should go to seven barrel brewery. Place is on point. If that point is having the worst beer I've ever tasted.

 

[Adam Jackson]

Thanks man. Well, as pretty much a shut-in anti-social person who has very low self esteem, I'd rather not know people talk **** about me. I've tried to have an open door policy with people crashing at my house, big bottle shares, etc but people still hate me so **** it.

I counted as best I could and told everyone that a +/- 10 margin of error in the count was there due to people going to the bathroom and getting out of line to go to their cars. But it's true the line count grew by 10 each time I counted so people 250th in place were 260 and then 270 by the time the final count was made. Line holders and skippers caused that. I'm not security, just a fat ass that shaun told to count the line. not my fault.


Edit: regarding the long post, after reading over 1,000 posts made about HIll Farmstead on BA in 2013, I had a lot of pent up frustration.

 

[Don2]

Thanks man. Well, as pretty much a shut-in anti-social person who has very low self esteem, I'd rather not know people talk **** about me. I've tried to have an open door policy with people crashing at my house, big bottle shares, etc but people still hate me so **** it.

I counted as best I could and told everyone that a +/- 10 margin of error in the count was there due to people going to the bathroom and getting out of line to go to their cars. But it's true the line count grew by 10 each time I counted so people 250th in place were 260 and then 270 by the time the final count was made. Line holders and skippers caused that. I'm not security, just a fat ass that shaun told to count the line. not my fault.


Edit: regarding the long post, after reading over 1,000 posts made about HIll Farmstead on BA in 2013, I had a lot of pent up frustration.

You do have a bad rep (which you seem aware of), not sure how much is deserved (don't care) I hate any and all drama that surrounds beer. ******* drink and have a good time.
You did steal the HF mayorship on 4square from me though, so I do have a little hatred there.

 

[Adam Jackson]

You gotta get up there once a week if you want it back. For the longest time, it was a guy in Chicago that was mayor. I have no idea how to explain that one and he kept stealing it back from me. FourSquare hackerz.

As I see it, there's a core issue with my personality online. Beer geeks I meet in person say the online persona doesn't match the in person one...I come off entitled, know it all and I entered beer in January 2012 and reviewed 1,000 beers in a year, racked up 100 trades, bought thousands of dollars in beer and with my blog "showed it off" in order to gain acceptance and then complained that selling beer on eBay was necessary since I spent too much on the hobby too soon and had personal **** that came up. I'd say these were valid. i got in too deep too soon and there are people that haven't met me that continue to believe I'm a *********. I come off as one and I recognize it.

It's just the disparity in opinions of me are wildly different between people who stay at my house, drink my beer, eat my food and trade with me versus the people who just read my blog and hate me.

there was a thread on BA last week a guy sleeping in his car with his GF going to the damon release. I messaged him and he slept on my floor on an air mattress instead. We had BA speedway, SiTR Kumquat, home-brew and Melange 8 and an awesome cheese plate. he'd probably say "adam is ******* awesome" but opinions vary.

I just have too thin of skin and too low self esteem to deal with this **** sometimes. that's my fault. anyway, thanks for the nice words. You have a great point.

Edit: lurking on BT since April almost every day I have to add that you all are the best of beer. everyone I wanted to reply to and 'like' on BA is here and although I'm not really welcome in yoru community by most of you, you are best of breed and I've enjoyed reading all of your opinions and laughing at your memes. You're good people and I'm glad you all have a place to express yourselves. Rock on.

 

[Osyrus]

So many WTF comments about counts (toward the low 200s here) constantly increasing, but none were directed at you where we were. Everyone watched what a shitshow that was, people cutting, general shadiness... not your fault at all. Thought you handled the incessant "OMG WHAT NUMBER AM I DO I GET ANY DBD WHY WONT YOU TELL ME HOW MANY BOTTLES THERE ARE I HATE YOU YOURE AN ASS BECAUSE ALL THE BOTTLES ARE BELONG TO ME" comments well.

 

[AutumnBeerLove]

Apparently it's a permanent new policy due to the disgusting behavior of people at this past release.

It was in talks well before the last release. I'm sure the last release made the decision much easier though.

 

[Envelopes]

What the **** is a foursquare mayor?

 

[Don2]

What the **** is a foursquare mayor?

 

[user 305778]

I hate foursquare. So much.

I read all those posts and I didn't see anyone call out your name Adam. Sounds like 2012 was an interesting year for you and, yeah, if you defended selling beer I can see people getting their "jimmies rustled" over that. Dunno. Seems like you understand that so whatever. There were a bunch of people complaining about the counting, but there seemed to be an equal number that explained why. I wouldn't worry about it.

Sort of surprised that an "unexpected" number of people showed up though. If Sean hadn't said 8:30am, people would have been lining up at midnight for that release.

Also, about trading HF, when there are 1 bottle limits it makes it much, much harder to trade without a bunch of mules. If I'm at a release, I'm pretty happy with that since I'm fine with 1, but happy with 2. Either way, low bottle limits of a popular beer can lead to that.

Regardless, I have no cat in this game, just like reading about this kind of stuff since it's interesting how different it is all over the countries and how release interest grows. Not looking forward to the 1am lines at Tired Hands.