Higher efficiency

[homebrewnewbie]

So, I'm on my 4th all grain batch, and it's going pretty well. I've started step mashing on my 3rd batch, and I had a lighter body. My earlier brews were very heavy.

I want to use this clone:
Yazoo Pale Ale - 5 gallon - all grain
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.27 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 87.58 %
0.66 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 6.26 %
0.44 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.11 %
0.22 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.06 %
0.63 oz Amarillo Gold [8.20 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 19.6 IBU
0.91 oz Pearle [5.40 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 18.6 IBU
0.28 oz Cascade [5.30 %] (30 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
3.51 oz Cascade [5.30 %] (5 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
English Ale Yeast

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.51 %
Bitterness: 55.0 IBU
Est Color: 6.0 SRM

I scaled it up to 6 gallons, but the efficiency has to be 78% to get close to the ABV. And Yazoo uses Plato scale.

My question is: If I skip mashing-out, will that increase the efficiency?

 

[twistr25]

You could always bump up the grain bill a bit to increase the sugars you extract even if you have lower efficiency.

 

[sptaylor70]

If you skip the mash-out step, it should lower your efficiency. The purpose of the mash-out is to dissolve the residual sugars in the grain so that you can recover them.

twistr25 is correct - Increase the amount of grain if you don't think that you can hit the required efficiency mark.

 

[brewkinger]

If you skip the mash-out step, it should lower your efficiency.

This is slightly inaccurate.
Firstly, a mash out is not absolutely necessary anymore with the highly modified malt grains available nowadays.
Secondly, a mash out does not rinse the sugars out. The purpose of a mash out is to bring the grains up to around 170 degree mark to halt conversion and essentially lock the flavor profile in for the beer.

The sparge to follow a non essential mash out would rinse the residual sugars from the grains.

Skipping the mash out step would therefore not hurt your efficiency as much as other factors.
Grain crush and temperature are 2 important factors in eff boost.
Like the others said, up your grain bill to make sure that you get enough sugars.
Or good crush, proper mash temps and great sparge will help

 

[homebrewnewbie]

Ok, I guess I don't totally understand the "mash-out" concept. If the purpose of mashing is to get as many fermentable sugars as possible, it seems like the mash out can be skipped in general, and sparging at 168 to 170 F will fulfill that role anyway. The more fermentables, the more efficiency. Right?

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Thats basically what i do, i batch sparge with ~185ish degree water to get my grain to stop conversion.

 

[LovesIPA]

I fly sparge with 170 water, but not to mash out. The hotter water makes the grain bed less viscous, and therefore easier to rinse the sugars out. I don't really care if conversion is still happening during fly sparging, or even in the kettle.

BTW you don't need fancy equipment to fly sparge. I use a spaghetti colander. I got 87.4% efficiency on my last batch and it's typically in the mid 80's.

 

[triskelion]

I managed to get 88% on my second all grain batch. I did BIAB, with an acid rest, protein rest, β saccharification rest, α saccharification rest and a mashout. total mash time was about 2.5 hours, It was suppose to be less than 2 hours but something unexpected happened along the way. Also I did 3 dunk sparges and squeezed the bejeezis out of the bag. I only had 34% base malt so I think I can get 90% with a different recipe. Its still fermenting, hopefully I won't have tannins from squeezing the bag.

 

[twistr25]

I managed to get 88% on my second all grain batch. I did BIAB, with an acid rest, protein rest, β saccharification rest, α saccharification rest and a mashout. total mash time was about 2.5 hours, It was suppose to be less than 2 hours but something unexpected happened along the way. Also I did 3 dunk sparges and squeezed the bejeezis out of the bag. I only had 34% base malt so I think I can get 90% with a different recipe. Its still fermenting, hopefully I won't have tannins from squeezing the bag.

Another myth that has been disproved recently. You are more likely to get tannins from high steeping temperatures. You should be fine

 

[homebrewnewbie]

Thanks for all of the posts. An 80% efficiency would put me above the target. Gonna try the protein rest, beta and alpha rests (30 min each) and skip the mash out.

 

[LovesIPA]

Thanks for all of the posts. An 80% efficiency would put me above the target. Gonna try the protein rest, beta and alpha rests (30 min each) and skip the mash out.

Not necessary IMO. You should easily be able to hit 80% with a single temperature infusion.

 

[triskelion]

Not necessary IMO. You should easily be able to hit 80% with a single temperature infusion.

Is there an optimum temperature for highest efficiency with single infusion?

 

[LovesIPA]

Is there an optimum temperature for highest efficiency with single infusion?

Not really, as long as you're in the 148 - 158 range. You will of course get more unfermentable sugars toward the high end of that range, but your hydrometer doesn't know the difference between fermentable and unfermentable sugars.

At least, that's my understanding of how it works.