High sweetness with lots of carb?

[2centprofit]

As the title says, I'm interested in making a cider with high end-sweetness and high carbonation. Optimally I'd like the sugary-syrup taste/feel of sucrose and I've found sucralose - at any amount - doesn't give that nice syrupy in your face sweetness that sucrose does.

So, with that said has anyone had luck with artificial sweeteners to back sweeten that don't impart an off taste and have that syrupy goodness I'm after? Perhaps a combination of several of them? Or maybe I can pasteurize after its all fully primed in the bottles and then back sweeten with sugar?

Last year I just ended up after sweetening each glass with a table spoon of brown sugar as I drank it...(Yeah, I like it SWEET)

I'd like to have a pop-and-drink end product which is sweet enough as is with plenty of carbonation and not have to deal with the sweeten as I drink hassle.

(Currently have a 5 gallon batch fermenting, and I have corn sugar for priming)

 

[Jessiegaddy]

That is a tough one. You can't pasteurize a high level of carbonation and be safe about it. The level of sweetness you are looking for and the specific taste profile will be hard to accomplish without kegging. With a high level of carbonation bottle bombs is an almost certainty if you try to pasteurize the cider. Most artificial sweeteners will not give you the taste you are looking for and nonfermentables like maltodextrin or lactose will have to be used in such a large amount that the cider will be undrinkable. Maybe someone else has some ideas but for what you want kegging is the way to go. Then you can bottle from the keg and have what you're looking for.

 

[2centprofit]

When it comes to kegging equipment how much do you think it'll cost to get started with that?

 

[Jessiegaddy]

That depends on how you you purchase the equipment. Buying the bundled packages will give you everything at once but is on the costly end. Purchasing pieces separately can save you a lot of money. Look for sales on pieces on the internet and buy as you find a good deal. With the holidays coming up you can find some great prices. Look at the kegging and bottling forum to get some ideas. But as for a start up price look to spend a couple hundred dollars. It will be well worth the investment, it was the best thing I ever did for my brewing. I keg beer, cider, mead and soda using the same equipment.

 

[MindenMan]

I don't know how many volumes of carbonation you are seeking, but from the sound of it you should acquire champagne bottles so they will not explode when you bottle pasteurize to save the level of sweetness you desire. Bottle pasteurizing is not difficult, and using champagne bottles will definitely add a layer of safety when pasteurizing.

 

[dmtaylor]

One word. Xylitol. Look it up. It tastes EXACTLY like real sugar but will not ferment.

 

[Jessiegaddy]

Only cane sugar tastes like cane sugar. Just because you like the taste does not mean everyone will. I personally don't like xylitol because of the way it is processed. That's the thing with artificial sweeteners they tend to taste differently to different people. Small batch testing by the glass with different sweeteners will give you a sense of what you are after. Most if not all artificial sweeteners will not give the syrupy taste and mouthfeel the poster is seeking. As a chef of 20+ years I have worked with a lot of the sweeteners on the global market and as I said only cane sugar tastes like cane sugar. Which is not to say the poster will not like xylitol but it doesn't taste exactly like sugar.

 

[dmtaylor]

Maybe true, however it is closer to the real taste than any other artificial sweetener that's ever existed.

 

[2centprofit]

Thanks for the tip dmtaylor. (Side note - does the dm in your name stand for dimethyl? )

I sort of figured that was the case Jessie. I guess I can give xylitol a shot and see what I think. A while ago I had to substitute splenda for sugar in my coffee because I had ran out...Even at high amounts it didn't give enough 'sweet' for my liking and didn't have the mouth feel. *shrugs*

Hey so check this out-

........Freezing live or reconstituted yeast cells causes the cell wall to burst, killing the yeast.

So, could I hypothetically charge(I forget the term?) with corn sugar for carbonation, then after it's gotten it's fizz going, freeze to kill the yeast(freeze pasteurization???), then thaw, then back sweeten with sugar?

Thanks to all who commented. Your input is much appreciated.

 

[JimRausch]

Thanks for the tip dmtaylor. (Side note - does the dm in your name stand for dimethyl? )

I sort of figured that was the case Jessie. I guess I can give xylitol a shot and see what I think. A while ago I had to substitute splenda for sugar in my coffee because I had ran out...Even at high amounts it didn't give enough 'sweet' for my liking and didn't have the mouth feel. *shrugs*

Hey so check this out-



So, could I hypothetically charge(I forget the term?) with corn sugar for carbonation, then after it's gotten it's fizz going, freeze to kill the yeast(freeze pasteurization???), then thaw, then back sweeten with sugar?

Thanks to all who commented. Your input is much appreciated.

Are you thinking about freezing the bottles after carbonation? BOOOM

 

[JimRausch]

I do a graf each fall in order to retain some sweetness, but not near the amount of sweet you're talking about. I bottle a 5G batch with 1 can of FAJC and let sit until they are carbonated (again it doesn't seem to be at the level you are looking for). Check the carbonation level by bottling one in a soda bottle. This happens usually in 4-7 days, at which point I use the 'Cooler pasteurization' method to stop fermentation. Result- slightly sweet, moderately carbonated. No bottle bombs.
To kick it up, you could add 2 or 3 cans of FAJC, and pasteurize. But---- I'm not responsible if they explode on you. Good Luck.

 

[JimRausch]

Another thought- I used Xylitol in my Ginger beer, the Clarence Stout, and the Grapefruit Moon. 1 cup at bottling time. Still I don't think it's the level of sweetness you're looking for, but go ahead and experiment.