high heat kills my march pump...ideas on a fix?

[Golddiggie]

Boiling temps shouldn't do anything to stainless steel even if the tolerances were extremely tight. Unless the chugger head is made for a lower grade alloy than the March pump heads are.

I'll give my stainless March pump head a try during this weekend's brew session and see how it works out. Although I might be able to test it here at home with a few gallons of boiling water (in my keggle, or maybe my Blichmann kettle on the stove).

 

[runningweird]

Yea, I don't think boiling water would warp ss. I am more inclined to believe the flash steaming idea or cavitation.

 

[day_trippr]

I hate to even mention this as there is no cure, but the magnets that couple the motor to the impeller are heat sensitive...

Cheers!

 

[chuggerpumps]

If your having a problem with a Chugger Feel free to call or email us. We don't monitor HBT.. MIKE 800-810-1053. email [email protected]

We cant help you if you don't reach out to us ?

MIKE

 

[runningweird]

I did email you through your website - I am not entirely sure it is the stainless chugger head I have but thought it would be worth contacting you.

 

[chuggerpumps]

call me I will hep you out

 

[runningweird]

calling now

 

[runningweird]

okay so after an infromative conversation with Mike at chugger and the exchange of some impeller photos he is sending me a new impeller to see if that solves my problem - for free!

Mind you, I only have a chugger head( which I bought second hand) attached to a march 809 HS pump. Pretty impressive customer service.

I had already ordered an 815 impeller from ebay and I will let you guys know if that fixes the problem, but I should have Mike's impeller in a day or two and will try that as well.
He said to let him know if the 815 impeller works and solves the problem, but apparently the new chugger impellers have a stronger magnet than the stock march impellers.


we did go over some more things that might help others diagnose this problem:

All my fittings are 1/2" threaded camlocks(no barbs)- all my tubing is 1/2" ID silicone
I run an electric setup with the a 3/4" pickup tube running at a 90 degree bend just under the electric element(which sits at around the 3 gallon mark in my boil keggle)
My tubing is between 3 and 4 feet long - which Mike said shouldn't be causing cavitation issues.

I will update once I get the new impellers - Man I hope this works. It would suck not to be able to boil sanitize my plate chiller.

 

[runningweird]

so, like magic, I had a new impeller on my front porch this afternoon from chugger - overnight shipping is amazing. I can tell from playing with the pump and the impeller that the magnet is stronger than my old one.

so i popped it in my pump and it worked for longer than the original impeller - about 5 minutes longer. Then it crapped out again. So I emailed Mike at Chugger, as per his request, to update him on my problem and I got a message back. He is sending me a new pump head back plate with a different setup involving the thrust washer(again for free) so I will keep the post updated.

I will be getting the march 815 impeller I ordered from ebay on friday or thursday along with a new pump head o ring. I will try all the combinations to see if I can get it working...

 

[killian]

I have been having the same issue with my new march pump (not stainless). I finally got all of my fittings put everything together and started a double brewday (I recirculated some cleaner and rinse water through it the day before) and the pump squeals, quits pumping and keeps doing that all.......day.......long. All of my plumbing is 1/2" ID. It seemed to help if I throttled the out but what a pain.

 

[CidahMastah]

Wanted to post about my experience as well. I contacted Mike at chugger and he asked me to send the pump back to him and they would repair/replace based one my comments. Very fast response, just as he was quick to get in touch with me and answer questions when I bought the pump the first time around. I send it earlier this week and will post back when I hear back or receive the repaired/replaced pump from chugger.

Thanks for the help Mike.

 

[runningweird]

ok so, post update.

I got the 815 impeller, new oring and a new thrust washer in the post today.
You can see the smaller impeller on the right, which Mike was kind enough to send me from Chugger Pumps, and the larger 815 impeller on the left. The thrust washer that was on the pump was kind of loose - but the new one is snug and fits nicely. I should note that the new pump impeller pushes a lot more water than the smaller impeller - a lot more. I think I will have to dial back on the valves so that I don't get channeling in my grain bed when I do my next mash
anyway- some pictures

here is the assembled pump head

So I boiled water( take that home ec teacher) and started recirculating. same old story. A loud squawk soon after re-circulation starts.


I have kept Mike updated - He said he sent me out a new pump back today - I guess we will see if that fixes the issue

 

[runningweird]

I got the pump back plate in the mail today - no dice. The boiling water killed the thing in the same short time period. So, Mike said ship the thing back to us and will fix it or replace it.

Gotta say I am liking chugger pumps company more and more.

 

[scubakevdm]

There's some deformation on the case sealing surface at the four o'clock position. Did the neighbor dog bite the pump too?

I'm guessing you've checked for especially shiny patches or other indications of uneven wear?

 

[runningweird]

There's some deformation on the case sealing surface at the four o'clock position. Did the neighbor dog bite the pump too?

I'm guessing you've checked for especially shiny patches or other indications of uneven wear?

I noticed the scratches there as well - I assumed the last owner dropped it.

but no, the only dog in my garage has been another neighbors geriatric beagle.

 

[scubakevdm]

Got any plastiguage?

Sure seems like a heat expansion thing to me, maybe combined with an alignment issue. What's the torque like on the backplate bolts? Is there a gasket? I sure would like to plop a blob of plastiguage on the end of that shaft and get an idea of what the Gap is cold. I'm not familiar with the units.

 

[runningweird]

nope what is it? how might that help?

 

[scubakevdm]

http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html

Kind of an atypical application due to the small size of the shaft, but it would give you an idea of what your shaft end is doing.

Now that I look at the pump again, I see that the shaft seems to be stationary. If the tolerance between the magnet part of the impeller and the I.D. of the bowl part of the backplate are tight, and that shaft was out a hair then the metal expanded, I wonder if they would rub.

 

[scubakevdm]

That kinda begs the question, "Do the marks on the sealing surface that led you to believe the previous owner dropped it seem to be in places where they could only be if the backplate was removed when the unit was dropped?"
If so the shaft could be slightly misaligned and the misalignment aggravated by the expansion could be enough to stop the impeller.

 

[CidahMastah]

Got my new pump in the mail on Friday - sick customer service for sure. Will post back when i get a chance to try it out!

 

[Irrenarzt]

I think most all 809/815 pumps will suffer when boiling temperatures are used. The magnets cannot handle boiling temperatures and lose coupling, therefore you lose pumping capability.

Every one of them I've seen suffers from magnetic decoupling when boiling temperature liquids are pumped.

 

[scubakevdm]

Wow! That sucks. I did not know that. I was on the verge of getting one too. Maybe I'll try a peristalic pump.

 

[RoadKing]

I run my 809 during boil without any problems.

 

[runningweird]

I run my 809 during boil without any problems.

I think lots of people have pumps that work well for them - something about this one - a march body and a chugger head just doesn't mesh apparently.

Hopefully Mike at Chugger will be able to sort it out - I need to brew more beer.

 

[CidahMastah]

I think there are a lot fo variables too. Pick up tube location, electric heat vs propane, obviously the restriction in your feed line to the pump etc. I can run my march during full boil no sweat on my rig.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I think most all 809/815 pumps will suffer when boiling temperatures are used. The magnets cannot handle boiling temperatures and lose coupling, therefore you lose pumping capability.

Every one of them I've seen suffers from magnetic decoupling when boiling temperature liquids are pumped.

The magnets actually can handle temps up to 250*F before loosing magnetism when turning at these higher speeds. The issues for most at boiling temps is that you are sucking the bubbles that are being made right off the bottom of the pot and in to the pump and causing it to cavitate. If you take a pot of water and boil it, you will see bubbles forming on the bottom way before they reach the top.
We actually have a customer that uses these very same pumps but with a special motor that turns at 1000rpm and they transfer hot oil at 303*F without issue.

 

[MalFet]

The magnets actually can handle temps up to 250*F before loosing magnetism when turning at these higher speeds. The issues for most at boiling temps is that you are sucking the bubbles that are being made right off the bottom of the pot and in to the pump and causing it to cavitate. If you take a pot of water and boil it, you will see bubbles forming on the bottom way before they reach the top.
We actually have a customer that uses these very same pumps but with a special motor that turns at 1000rpm and they transfer hot oil at 303*F without issue.

That was my hunch about what is going on. Any tips on a solution?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

only thing you can realy do is cut the heat when you reach full boil and turn the pump on as soon as the bubbles stop. Other then that i'd say for those that dont have any problems to post up a pic of the inside configuration of the pot you are boiling in ans see if theres anything common between them that you can incorporate into yours.
It may be as easy as shifting the pot on the burner so the pickup is as far away from the heat source as possible so you are not pulling the bubbles into the pumps...

 

[Irrenarzt]

Do you have a curve showing magnetic loss vs temp for your magnets? I bet cavitation is part of the problem but it also seems like the magnets are going somewhat slack as you can hear a tone deviation that sounds to me like decoupling at higher temperatures. Either way, it's a phenomenon I don't like. Luckily it's not a huge problem for me as I only recirc boil for 15 minutes to sanitize my plate chiller. Once I'm in whirlpool, the heat is off and it's not a problem.

 

[CidahMastah]

That was my hunch about what is going on. Any tips on a solution?

In my experience I did much better with the pump when I:
1. put my dip tube on a 90 and right up against the kettle side wall.

I have an electric kettle, so the majority of bubbles from the boil get generated at the element location (which is why I moved my dip tube to the sidewall location to begin with).

I too only recirc. during the boil for 10 minutes to sanitize the pump, etc.