High Gravity All-Grain?

[Jordan71017]

Is it possible/practical to make a high gravity wort (i.e. 1.090+) using purely only grain, or must sugar and/or malt extracts be used to achieve higher gravity worts? If possible, are there any tricks in doing so? If not possible/practical, why not? Thanks in advance for any answers and/or explanations.

 

[broadbill]

Certainly possible, if it is practical depends on your setup. One thing you need to account for is lower efficiency with high gravity brews. Because you use so much grain, you use alot of water to mash with. Because your ending volume doesn't change any, this decreases the amount of sparge water you have to work with. Having a big enough vessel to mash/sparge in is also necessary.

I did a RIS that clocked in at 1.1xx with 24 lbs of grain...it pretty much filled up my 48qt igloo MLT.

 

[edmanster]

Yes... And then make a parti-gyle batch with sum third runnings!!

 

[QuaffableQuips]

What broadbill said. You can increase your efficiency a bit by sparging to a larger pre-boil volume than usual and then boiling for longer, but only if you are willing to spend the time to do it that way. I'd only do this if the style can support some kettle caramelization, though.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

Yes... And then make a parti-gyle batch with sum third runnings!!

Hell yes, don't leave all those good sugars hanging!

 

[Jordan71017]

So far I've only brewed single and double IPAs. What styles would NOT support some kettle caramelization?

 

[BrewMU]

I have to say, Jordan, that is some tag-line. Fight the power!

 

[broadbill]

So far I've only brewed single and double IPAs. What styles would NOT support some kettle caramelization?

IPA and dIPAs for starters

 

[ReDim]

Boiling down would create caramelization but I am thinking that even there it is possible to get around it. The 2 things that pop into my mind would be natural (cold) evaporation and controlling temperature while increasing the sacrifice area....

If I take a simple room "dehydrator" or humidifier (what ever it's called) and set my wort next to it for a few hours... I think I have seen one that can do like a gallon in a few hours... Then I can thing of a salt bath (lock the wart in a closet and pour lot's of salt around it, salt will observe the moisture from air and thus more will evaporate, so as soon as the salt get's to damp replace it with new...

Another idea is to do some research on temperature affect on caramelization, so putting the wort in multiple container and keeping it heated at a lower temperatures. Natural yeasts will start working on sweet unpasteurized wort kept heated to lower temperatures. I am just throwing some ideas out there for further research and discussion...

But if I am using one 10 gallon pot to bring the wort to a boil @ 2 degrees a minute I would have less evaporation as opposed to me using 4 smaller pots with the same open area as a 10g pot....

For my purposes it seems cheaper or easier (less time consuming) to hit a gravity reading buy simpling adding some extract to get to the desired gravity. If i double my grain bill I would pay much more then all extract and if try evaporating via avoiding caramelezation I would much more time even if I do manage to get it there correctly.

 

[lumpher]

i'm doing an all-grain barleywine ~1.093 this weekend, planning on about 65% efficiency ( i usually get about 80 on lighter beers ). i'll follow it up with second runnings to make a special bitter. the trick is to use more grain due to lower efficiency, then make a second beer from the same grain ( look up partigyle )

 

[brewtus_]

Also, if your mash tun is too small to support your recipe's grain bill, you can scale the recipe down to a smaller total volume. I did this last fall with a Russian Imperial stout that came in at 1.105. Had to make only 3 gallons instead of 5 to get the grain to fit into my mash tun. Good luck!

 

[broadbill]

Boiling down would create caramelization but I am thinking that even there it is possible to get around it. The 2 things that pop into my mind would be natural (cold) evaporation and controlling temperature while increasing the sacrifice area....

If I take a simple room "dehydrator" or humidifier (what ever it's called) and set my wort next to it for a few hours... I think I have seen one that can do like a gallon in a few hours... Then I can thing of a salt bath (lock the wart in a closet and pour lot's of salt around it, salt will observe the moisture from air and thus more will evaporate, so as soon as the salt get's to damp replace it with new...

Another idea is to do some research on temperature affect on caramelization, so putting the wort in multiple container and keeping it heated at a lower temperatures. Natural yeasts will start working on sweet unpasteurized wort kept heated to lower temperatures. I am just throwing some ideas out there for further research and discussion...

But if I am using one 10 gallon pot to bring the wort to a boil @ 2 degrees a minute I would have less evaporation as opposed to me using 4 smaller pots with the same open area as a 10g pot....

For my purposes it seems cheaper or easier (less time consuming) to hit a gravity reading buy simpling adding some extract to get to the desired gravity. If i double my grain bill I would pay much more then all extract and if try evaporating via avoiding caramelezation I would much more time even if I do manage to get it there correctly.

ya lost me here....pretty much no clue actually.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

I think double IPAs could support some degree of caramelization, but you'd have to experiment to figure out how much, and you'd want to reduce or modify the crystal malt component of the grist to compensate.

Were I in your position, I would simply assume some efficiency and then top up with whatever DME is needed to achieve the desired pre-boil gravity. I normally get 70 to 75% efficiency on my system, so for a high gravity grist, I might ratchet that down to 65 or even 60. Then after the sparge (and a good, thorough-yet-quiet stir), measure the gravity and see if you need to add any DME.

 

[Jordan71017]

@ BrewMU

TY!

 

[Jordan71017]

At what point is "kettle caramelization" taking place? 2 hours into the boil? 3 hours?

 

[Jordan71017]

@ ReDim

That sounds like WAY too much work.......I'll just add some DME and avoid all the salts and dehumidafiers. TY!

 

[Jordan71017]

For those of you who have done a parti-gyle batch before, do you store your 2nd/3rd runnings or boil them the same night you collect them? If anybody has stored them before, how do you store them? Freeze or refrigerate? Store at room temperature? In an airtight container or a not so airtight container? Any explanation would be greatly appreciated.

 

[edmanster]

For those of you who have done a parti-gyle batch before, do you store your 2nd/3rd runnings or boil them the same night you collect them? If anybody has stored them before, how do you store them? Freeze or refrigerate? Store at room temperature? In an airtight container or a not so airtight container? Any explanation would be greatly appreciated.

I've brewed all batches in a day and I've also stored it in my crashing fridge.. I have a couple old fermentation buckets I store them in.. You want to cool it down fast and in the fridge... If you let it sit out and sour, you just might like that too

 

[edmanster]

Thought you might like this!
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator
Run the simulator and it's pretty accurate.. You can also throw more grains in for another sacc rest to make a different style and increase gravity