HERMS mash?

[Arbe0]

Anyone see any problems with starting your mash with cooler water from the sink instead of bringing it up to temp before putting into the mash?.. last brew I started my HLT water but decided to just put it in the mash tun with the grains and heat both up to temp via the HERMS coil instead of heating up the HLT water to temp then putting it into the mash tun with grains. What do you think?

 

[Brumateur]

Anyone see any problems with starting your mash with cooler water from the sink instead of bringing it up to temp before putting into the mash?.. last brew I started my HLT water but decided to just put it in the mash tun with the grains and heat both up to temp via the HERMS coil instead of heating up the HLT water to temp then putting it into the mash tun with grains. What do you think?

Definitely it will work. However question is - how does it affect efficiency and taste?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Anyone see any problems with starting your mash with cooler water from the sink instead of bringing it up to temp before putting into the mash?.. last brew I started my HLT water but decided to just put it in the mash tun with the grains and heat both up to temp via the HERMS coil instead of heating up the HLT water to temp then putting it into the mash tun with grains. What do you think?

Can I ask why you chose to do it that way? Were you trying to accomplish something?

 

[Arbe0]

I tried it yesterday, the idea is to just make things simpler. My brew equipment is a HERMS with a 240 v 30 amp system. when I normally start I heat up water to infusion temperature in my HLT and put the water into the mesh tun. I figured just to simplify the process by adding water to the mesh tun with grains and heat both mash water ( in the mash tun) and sparge water (in the HLT) up at the same time using the HERMS coil to get to mash temperature. The thought was by using the PID starting at the lower temp and letting it go though several short temperature rests wouldn't hurt. This would just make everything one step and I can get my coffee and work on other things and not worry about the mash until it was finished. Mostly this would just be a way to simplify things.

 

[day_trippr]

I would think a long crawl up the temperature ladder to the target sacc rest is going to result in thinner beer than a recipe might calculate...

Cheers!

 

[sibelman]

I agree with Brunateur and day_trippr. Seems to me that this technique could work poorly when you're aiming for maltier beer (less fermentables) because of the amount of time the mash spends at lower temps. Probably would be fine otherwise.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I imagine bringing water from spigot temp to strike temp via herms is a slow process. For maximum ramp rate, use boiling water. Once you hit strike temp, you are going to want the water surrounding your herms somewhere near mash temp. So you dump some too hot water and replace with spigot water, then futz with it to get to mash temp.

To ramp up water temp, direct heat is your best choice.

 

[Arbe0]

I guess maybe the best way to do this is to have the strike water in the mash tun heated though the HERMS coil, the sparge water in the HLT and get those to strike temperature, then add the grins when the water reaches strike temperature. Probably the way everyone does it.

 

[day_trippr]

Not everyone.

I heat my strike volume in my BK then under-let the mash while the HLT is coming up to its target.
Not only takes advantage of two burners sharing the load, I don't have to wait for the HLT to cool back down from strike to recirculation temperature (which would be an obvious waste of energy as well)...

Cheers!

 

[RufusBrewer]

Can you use the HERMS vessle to heat your strike water. All need is a valve to get the strike water knto your MT.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Can you use the HERMS vessle to heat your strike water. All need is a valve to get the strike water knto your MT.

This is how I do it.

I heat the full batch volume of water (20 gal) in the HLT to about 175F.
Transfer my desired mash volume over to the MT and let it cool to strike temp.
I'll then add additional RO water to the HLT to cool it down to mash temp and add the needed water salts to the HLT (if I added 4 gallons of RO water to cool it off, I'll add 4 gallons worth of water additions as well, just to aid in maintaining water profile).
Once water in MT hits strike temp, dough in and we're off!

 

[Ihop2many]

I heat my strike volume in my BK, while the HLT is coming up to its target.

I use this same technique, works well for me!

 

[Arbe0]

I have an electric 240 v 30 amp HERMS system so I let the PID manage the temperature.

 

[gavinr]

Brulosophy did an experiment on this very thing, doughing in at room temp, and raising the temp. The results definitely tend to favor pre-heating the strike water:
http://brulosophy.com/2017/10/02/the-mash-single-infusion-vs-rising-temperature-exbeeriment-results/

 

[augiedoggy]

Anyone see any problems with starting your mash with cooler water from the sink instead of bringing it up to temp before putting into the mash?.. last brew I started my HLT water but decided to just put it in the mash tun with the grains and heat both up to temp via the HERMS coil instead of heating up the HLT water to temp then putting it into the mash tun with grains. What do you think?

Your more or less step mashing some start at around 125 degrees for a protien restr but there are others explained here How To Brew Your First Beer: Chapter 14 - How the Mash Makes Wort . Ive done this but not on purpose, when I was experimenting with underletting vs traditional mash in on my 3bbl system I incidentally found that the temp would drop dramatically from the larger amount of grain... ended up having to bring it back up with the rims.. Heres what I found,

The beer will be very thin and have a higher abv unless you manage to get it up to proper mash temp very quickly (a good portion of the mash is already converted by the 15 minute mark) also since your recirculating and depending on how low your starting temps are and the grains/adjuncts being used, you may reach temps where the mash gels up and the flow rate is hard to maintain. this is especially the case with adjuncts like rye which scorched the hell out of even my super ULWD rims elements which normally remain virtually clean during use due to being such low watt density. On a rims this wouldnt be and issue but you would get a slimy buildup inside the herms coil which might be tough to get clean.