HERMS coil HEX in Boil Kettle

[bikesnbeers]

Hi all,

I'm looking for ideas on putting the HERMS coil in the BK semi-permanently.

The advantages:
-Coil could be used as a HERMS and immersion chiller.
-Only 1 heat source needed (under BK)
-Whirlpool would use the same fittings in the BK for HERMS temp stability and cooling

Disadvantages:
-Cleaning may be tough
-There is an extra step in the brew day to transfer from the BK to the HLT

Brew day process:
1) Heat and recirculate strike water through BK and MT
2) Mash in and HERMS through coil in BK
3) Near the end of mash, heat BK to mash out temp and transfer water to HLT (this is the extra step)
4) Sparge
5) Boil
6) Cool with immersion/HEX using garden hose

The hardware (from inside BK to outside BK):
http://www.brewhardware.com/images/products/tnmaletube.png
http://www.brewhardware.com/images/products/tn12coup.png
http://www.fluidpower.com.tw/hc/camlock/ctypef.jpg

I'm wondering if this could be done with tri clamp fittings inside the BK to make it easier to remove the coil. Sounds expensive to me.

I guess the hardware would be the same whether it was in the BK or the HLT. I don't see the disadvantages as being deal killers, because the coil could be removed if it got nasty. I dont think it would need to be removed every brew day. The extra step could be done in probably 5 minutes.

Thanks!

 

[aludwig]

I was planning on doing the same thing for my kettle that kal did for his HLT at theelectricbrewery. It is basically the same thing you are talking about. I think cleanup would consist of a soak in PBW. You could make it easier to remove by replacing the metal ferrule with silicone o-rings. In the end I decided to use a removable immersion chiller - was just easier and cheaper. Have to hook it to the top so it doesn't rest on the heating element.

 

[bikesnbeers]

Thanks aludwig. If I understand what you are saying, the difference between what I am going for and what theelectricbrewery (and most HERMS systems) is mine would not have a coil in the HLT. The HLT would only be used for about 15 minutes in the brew day to temporarily hold sparge water. The way most HERMS are set up (that I have seen) have a coil in the HLT and a chiller of some kind in/after the BK. As far as price goes, with "my" system you wouldnt need a heat source or coil in the HLT. That cost difference right there could justify a stainless coil and some tri clamp fittings in the BK.

I'm not sure what you mean by the ferrule vs. o-rings.

 

[aludwig]

Right. I use a rubbermaid cooler for HLT since you don't need active heating and it is only used just prior to sparge. It was much cheaper to do it this way and that's exactly why I chose this path.

If you use a standard stainless compression fitting (like swagelok), there is a metal ferrule that grabs the pipe as you tighten. If you remove that ferrule and replace it with a couple o-rings, it still seals, but you can easily remove it. I just recently saw a picture of that on one of the vendor's sites. Let me see if I can find that link.

 

[bikesnbeers]

Oooh. That's perfect! Thanks for the tip on the o-ring.

It sounds like you are doing exactly what I am suggesting. So you use an immersion chiller for your HERMS and your chilling in your BK? I thought I might be missing something with this process, but you are giving me hope!

I have 2 bottom draining converted kegs that I plan on using as my HLT and MT. I'd probably put the HLT on the 2nd tier.

 

[aludwig]

What you listed above for the process steps is exactly what I do (except step 1, not sure what you mean by recircing strike water through the MT).
Here are my steps:
1. Heat the strike water in the Bk then pump to the MT while mixing in the grains.
2. Refill the kettle with the sparge water and heat to the mash temp.
3. Once that is up to temp I start HERMS recirculation through the immersion chiller in the BK.
4. Bring the sparge water up to mashout temp while still recirculating
5. Stop recirc and pump the sparge water up to the HLT
6. Pump from HLT to MT for sparge while gravity draining to the kettle (2-tier system)

I pump through the same chiller in an icewater bucket to chill the wort after boil.

I found a link to the fitting picture. I think several of the vendors ship dip tubes this way. The same setup should work for the herms coil:
http://www.bargainfittings.com/download/diptube.pdf

 

[bikesnbeers]

The reason for my step 1 is to combine your steps 1 and 2 into 1 step. I wouldn't be refilling the kettle with cold water and waiting to heat to mash temps. I could start HERMS immediately after mashing in. What do you think?

 

[aludwig]

I guess you could do that with the BK and HLT. That would make sense. The MT will need to be empty to receive the grain and water, wouldn't it? Unless you just add the grain to your full volume of strike water. I usually mix it in as I fill the MT. Not sure my way is any better than any other way, that's just how I do it.

In any case, you have a point, it would be nice to get the recirc going faster. I think I will do that next time with the HLT and BK.

 

[aludwig]

I am trying this out today. Seems to be working fine, just taking longer than I'm used to due to the added volume. Also it took me a while to balance the valves to keep the levels constant. Would be nice to have one of those blickmann float valves right now.

 

[bikesnbeers]

Cool. Glad you got to test it out. Would you do this process again?

 

[aludwig]

Yep. Going to brew a german pils tomorrow and I plan on using this method.

 

[bikesnbeers]

That's great aludwig. Brew on!

I'm pulling the trigger on fittings for this system. I've got about half of them on order.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone with a permanent HERMS in their HLT. If you do have a HERMS in your HLT, would you consider moving it to your BK and getting rid of your immersion/plate/counter flow chiller? Do you think it would simplify your system?

Thanks all!

 

[milldoggy]

There is a member on here who did a designed he called Ditches. He had a copper coil in both the hlt and bk. It allowed for double duty coiling. I thought about putting a coil in my bk, but with keggles, you lose volume, it will get uber messy to clean and just another pain to deal with. if you want a double duty coil, using a chillzilla as a a herm coil and chiller sounds more attractive to me.

 

[bikesnbeers]

Cleaning is the part I'm worried about most. The reason that I want a permanent solution is because I'd like to drain the water out of it as much as possible at the end of the brew day. I know the copper immersion chiller that I have always has some left over water in it, which is fine because I'm only running hose water through it. Plus I think it would be a little easier to move around. I don't have a permanent place to store the system like a garage. Maybe I'm over thinking this. I have a tendancy to do that It looks like 50ft half inch tubing would take up 1/2 gallon. I hadn't considered that.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I have used three different hard mounted coils on various systems I have built. They work great and cleaning is indeed easy. After boiling and cooling, everything is obviously still wet, so a blast down from the hose gets almost everything off the coil. I have always filled the system with HOT water and a couple scoops of PBW and circulated that around for a while to get everything good and clean, but honestly that isn't even necessary. You would be fine with just hot water (I might know that because I have skimped on the PBW a few times).

I came up with the hard mounted idea because it avoids the hassle of moving the coil around. I love the hard mounted coil system, I find it much easier to use if you can swing the added cost.

With a hard mounted coil, they empty completely because there is no up leg (if that makes sense). It is a single coil from top to bottom, so gravity empties it out fully. I just stored with both top and bottom valves open.