Help with an English/West Coast IPA?

[Yooper]

Bob is really getting into earthy flavors, and hoppy beers. I still dislike fuggles (tastes like dirt to me!) but he said he really wants an English fuggles IPA.

BUT, then he said he thinks that it would be even better with some cascade hops.

I said, "Huh? You want an English IPA with the hops and grainbill of that style, but then some citrusy hops also?" (yes, I am a style Nazi). He responded with "YES! That's exactly what I want! Bready malt bill, with a very hoppy citrusy-fuggles flavor".

I'm going to need some help with this! I've never really liked fuggles, so I think I"m going to tend to cover them up here. What would be a good combo, so that he can have his English/West Coast IPA?

 

[Homercidal]

Why not just brew a beer for Bob? He deserves it!

You could try using some Willamette instead of Fuggles. I hear they cousins.

I got a beer just about ready for the keg that used some Willamette. I haven't tasted it yet, but it sounded good to me. It was an English Mild.

 

[14thstreet]

This recipe has some pedigree, just swap Fuggles for the EKG.

 

[Yooper]

Why not just brew a beer for Bob? He deserves it!

You could try using some Willamette instead of Fuggles. I hear they cousins.

I got a beer just about ready for the keg that used some Willamette. I haven't tasted it yet, but it sounded good to me. It was an English Mild.

I brew lots of beers just for Bob! I have done a cascade/willamette combo before that I did as a Bell's Amber clone, and it was really good. But he's talking earthy like Short's Pandemonium. Fuggles earthy, I think!

 

[Yooper]

This recipe has some pedigree, just swap Fuggles for the EKG.

I've done the all EKG English IPA, which I really liked. But I don't think chinnook for bittering and dryhopping will really give me enough citrusy flavor. I want it decidedly citrusy (cascade citrusy) but with a balance of earthiness also.

The grain bill I'm thinking of is actually nearly the same as that recipe. But I'm unsure of the hopping.

 

[Homercidal]

Good Lord, Yoop. If you can't figure it out, I doubt I'll be much help!

I know it doesn't take much Cascade to get the flavor to come across. I'm also very new to working with grains. Still learning what does what.

But maybe enough of the English grains and English yeast will provide enough character to offset the American hops. It's hard to think "American" and not think about a clean ferment and citrus hops though.

 

[Yooper]

Good Lord, Yoop. If you can't figure it out, I doubt I'll be much help!

I know it doesn't take much Cascade to get the flavor to come across. I'm also very new to working with grains. Still learning what does what.

But maybe enough of the English grains and English yeast will provide enough character to offset the American hops. It's hard to think "American" and not think about a clean ferment and citrus hops though.

I like the idea of the English IPA grainbill and English yeast. I think you've hit on my dilemma, though! How much cascade do you need to provide the counterbalance of citrus without muddying or covering up the earthy? What's a good balance? One ounce of cascade, late in the boil? How much fuggles?

I guess I"m thinking something like this:

cascade or chinook bittering 60 minutes (to 35 IBUs, say)

15 minutes fuggles (an ounce?)
15 minutes cascades (1/2 ounce?)

5 minutes fuggles (again, an ounce?)
5 minutes cascades (1/2 an ounce?)

Is that too much? Too little? How much of the fuggles do you use to get "earthy" that isn't overpowering? How about the cascades? I want to enhance the flavor, not muddy it up, and give the citrusy flavor Bob asked for.

 

[mb2696]

goose island ipa combines fuggle/styrian/centennial/cascade and it's pretty good

http://www.gooseisland.com/pages/india_pale_ale/18.php

 

[stubbornman]

I like to use a combination of Target, EKG, Northern Brewer, and Challenger in mine. I have had judges swear there were American hops used because it was so floral and hoppy.

 

[Homercidal]

I'd add the Cascade very late and try for that flavor/aroma focusing on the aroma.

Uh, so now I'm jonesing for an IPA.. Thanks.

Only a 1/2 hour before time to go home though. I should hit that Hopslam in the fridge. It's already too old.

 

[KraphtBier]

Northdown might be nice. I did a Northdown/Cascade IPA using S04 a few months back that came out really well.

 

[Yooper]

Northdown might be nice. I did a Northdown/Cascade IPA using S04 a few months back that came out really well.

You know, I've never even thought of any other hops and I've never tried Northdown. What do they bring?

 

[KraphtBier]

I only used them that one time. The bittering is similar to Northern Brewer, the flavor is earthy and spicy iirc. I think it would pair well with fuggles in a nice bready IPA. Toss in a little cascade for flavor and some aroma late in the boil and voila! Bob is a happy man. I will tell you that the Cascade in my beer really cut through, a little goes a long way in my experience.

 

[Beezer94]

Great Lakes Brewing Commodore Perry IPA uses Simcoe, Fuggle, & Cascade and is delicious.
They also have the Lake Erie Monster IIPA with just Simcoe & Fuggle and it is also very good.

http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/

If you go to a beer page and click the picture it shows the hops and grains for each beer.
Wish all breweries would show ingredients! (Even Sam Adams shows ingredients on their site)

http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/uploads/Beer/Profile Comm Perry.pdf
http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/uploads/Beer/Profile Lake Erie Monster.pdf
http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/uploads/Beer/Profile Edmund Fitzgerald.pdf

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

My inclination would be to think up 2 distinctly different shots at it and brew both of those up. Based on the results, you'd have a better idea of what direction to go next.

Maybe do one all Fuggles and dry hop heavily with Cascade and then vice versa. That likely won't produce a winner but it sounds fun to me.

 

[Yooper]

Hmmmm- all great pieces of advice. Thank you so much! Now I have lots more to think about. Maybe reduce the cascades so that the earthy fuggles still come through, and consider dryhopping with both if needed.

Here's what I'm thinking now:

9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 77.85 %
1 lbs Pale Malt (Golden Promise) (3.0 SRM) Grain 8.65 %
14.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7.57 %
6.0 oz Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 3.24 %
5.0 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 2.68 %
0.75 oz Chinook [11.50 %] (60 min) Hops 28.5 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (15 min) Hops 9.4 IBU
1.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 8.1 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
1 Pkgs Thames Valley Ale (Wyeast Labs #1275) Yeast-Ale

Dryhop if/what is needed after fermentation!


I have a pound or two of Golden Promise to use up. I have to get some more maris otter, and the yeast as well as the fuggles hops.

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

I'd say you're probably on the right track as far as going heavy Fuggles and very light with the big citrusy stuff. Worst case scenario is you have to brew another delicious batch of beer.