Help! Poison Chemical taste wtf?

[brewdownunder]

Hi, ive recently started doing full boil extract recipes with steeping grains and the taste is absolutly disgusting, its a bitter chemical poison like taste, not infected but just really chemical! I use starsan and sanitise correctly. I have no idea what ive done wrong. I would really appreciate some help...

Heres the recipe: 6gallon start volume in a s/steel pot.

250g Carahell steeped 30min @ 65.5 celcius (150f) (in 2 litres of water)
1 kg DME added at the start of boil
50g Tettnanger @ start of boil
28g Hallatau @ 30 min
15g Tettnanger @ 5 min
15g Hallatau @ 5 min
1 x whirlfloc tablet @ 15 min
1/2 tsp yeast nutrient @ 10 min
1.7kg Briess Dried pilsen malt extract added late about 5 min before flameout
I used a copper immersion chiller, siphoned into fermenter and pitched wyeast czech pilsner liquid yeast activator ( starter)
SG 1048 FG 1014
Pretty much all the cold break went into the fermenter as it never really formed in the pot.
Brewed in a temp controlled fridge at 7-8 celcius for 3 1/2 weeks, performed d rest @ 15 celcius for 48hrs then crash cooled and racked to keg.
Innitial taste is just wrong.
Its an identical taste that the first full boil recipe i did had which used 2.7 kg Briess pilsen malt extract with different hops and different steeped grains, also tasted horrid and had to be dumped.
I cant understand what the problem is, one thing is my boil was not vigourous and merely just at boiling point. and i didnt let it settle in the pot to form cold break before transfering to fermenter so there ended up being quite a bit of break material at the bottom. Cheers in advance . Ken.

 

[tgmartin000]

What kind of water do you use? Could be chlorine or chloramines.

Does your recipie contain poison chemicals?

 

[jbaysurfer]

What kind of water do you use? Could be chlorine or chloramines.

Does your recipie contain poison chemicals?

^LOL!

I'd lean toward water too. Nothing else stood out to me except the boil. Try making that recipe with filtered/bottled water and boiling it vigorously. Boils drive out all kinds of SMM (that later become DMS) and other chemicals that cause off flavors.

Lastly, are you using bleach to clean? Clorophenols have been called "band-aid taste" before. I don't use bleach. I use only PBW (Oxy Clean is said to work just as well) and Sanitize with Star-San. I guess I'd be curious to hear more about your cleaning routine/chemicals?

BTW, don't worry about the cold/hot break issue. It's not your problem, and really only affects clarity IMO. However, boiling vigorously will indeed help with this issue.

 

[helibrewer]

Are you picking this taste up at all early in the process? i.e. during gravity readings? Is the copper chiller new? I would brew with store bought water next time to eliminate that variable.

If it only happens to batches where you use a chiller (full boil) there might be a coating on that copper that needs to be scrubbed off.

 

[brewdownunder]

Thanks for the quick replies, ok so i have a .5 micron carbon filter for my town water so chlorine is not the issue, for cleaning ive been using morgans low suds brewing detergent and then sanitising with starsan, there is no mould or indication of an infection.
The copper wort chiller is a home made job using refrigeration grade copper tube yet it is brazed together for strength using 15%brown tip silver solder....hmmmm ? Ive only ever used it on these two batches and they both have that bizzare undrinkable taste. The taste on this last batch was picked up on a gravity reading but the previous taste was after fermenting for 3 weeks, conditioning for 2, filtering between kegs and force carbonating, same taste. Thinking its the solder/brazing ? Beer was crystal clear and no issues with haze etc.

 

[likwidbliss]

Water and possibly the silver braizing. Silver is fairly reactive. I have a homemade copper chiller and it is a 50 foot long coil with hose clamps that do not touch the wort. Good luck on future batches.

 

[tgmartin000]

Hmmmm....solder sounds pretty poison chemical. Excessive alkalinity in your brewing liquor could also contribute. I'd still try a batch with bottled water.

 

[iambeer]

My money is on the yeast starter. Unhealthy yeast? Underpitched? etc. If the taste is that strong, it's gotta be something big. The two biggest contributors are grains and yeast, and he used extract.

 

[brewdownunder]

Thanks again for the replies, yeast starter is possibly a cause, yet the yeast starter i made and pitched into a fresh wort kit produced a brew that was amazing and i washed that yeast and pitched it into my own brew and that bizzare taste is definatly still there so its a mystery, all the can extract k and k brews i did using the same filtered water never had that bitey chemical taste. Can stainless steel leach flavour? it was a cheapish ($110) pot from ebay. Can steeping a mere 250g of grains in only a couple liters of high ph water cause the entire batch to develop strong flavours? I did a batch yesterday using a proper burner and omitted the steeped grains and simply pitched a rehydrated s 23 dry yeast, and soaked my copper immersion chiller in vinegar solution which stripped it bright and shiny so ill post back if the taste dissapears, process of elimination hey. meantime ill see about the water ph but any more ideas are more than welcome. ps sorry for the metric values celcius etc, im in Australia but this has to be the best HB forum out there, cheers.

 

[Smokeater233]

I second the earlier question on tasting earlier in the cycle. Have you tasted any of the wort before pitching the yeast? Have you tasted during the gravity readings? Before bottling? It'd be an interesting study to begin to identify exactly when that taste is present and it will dramatically help to narrow down where the problem begins. You might take a little sample out before chilling so that we can rule out whether your immersion chiller is at the heart of this problem.

 

[Smokeater233]

And no - it's not the steel pot...

 

[brewdownunder]

well i did a few taste tests on my last batch which was just a basic full boil using 1 kg dme, various hop additions and a can of muntons lager late addition, before i chilled and after i chilled with the copper chiller and the taste was not present. So its either my copper chiller ( before its acid clean), the steeped grains or yeast starter? One thing i didnt mention was that before i bought the burner i was using the bbq and assisting getting it up to the boil with my oxy,acetylene torch, heating the outside of the pot. Could the excessive heat on the side of the pot caused any wierd metal reaction? Might do a mock up steeped grain/strain and boil the liquid and taste it see if the flavour is present. Cheers

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

You never said what yeast you used bit judging from the fermentation temps... Was those a lager?

I once made a Maibock that tasted like royal ass. It was awful! But after a diacetyl rest and a few months of lagering it was delicious. Lagering least throws all sorts of bad off flavors initially.

 

[Smokeater233]

It could well be the copper chiller. I'm doubting its your grains (unless you are storing them poorly), and while it might be the yeast, unless you are using the same kind of yeast batch after batch, that probably isn't the problem either. However, some yeast nutrients can cause a metallic flavor. Are you storing anything in metal cans (e.g. aluminum)? If you don't taste the off flavor right out of the pot, it's possible you've got some issues going on in your fermenter. What are you using as your fermentation vessel? How is it setup? How are you cleaning and sanitizing it? Are you 100% sure you are getting all residual Lo Suds out of your equipment? Are you using the correct water to Star San ratio? Have you ever had an infection in your beer? Are you finding this flavor if you bottle and keg or are you only kegging?

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Are you possibly steeping too hot and getting tannins? My buddy sparged a batch way too hot once and it caused similar off flavors.

 

[brewdownunder]

Hi, ok so i did i mock up 1.5 gallon brew, exact procedure with tasting along the way, grains ok, steeping ok boiling ok, i think ive figured it out with the help of a pro brewer who runs a craftbrewing shop, IBU's ! extreme bitterness! He calculated im up over 80 IBU's and for a lager he said i should be more around 25 ? so what im tasting is extreme bitterness, hmmm..... Im kegging and only started doing so since doing my own recipe full volume brews, im safe to assume my process and procedure are sound as the fresh wort kits i brewed, filtered and kegged with the same equipment all turned out award winning! I used bohemium pilsner wyeast and czech pilsner wyeast, plastic 30litre fermenters with o ring lids, and airlocks, positive my cleaning/san process is ok. So extreme bitterness yeah? Guy sugested i pop a high AA % hop pelet in my mouth and chew it for a while and sure enough that strong almost chemical taste was there, bleuggghhh ! try it if your game!

 

[brewdownunder]

When i said boiling taste test ok, i meant taste test after boiling my steeped grain juice and malt, the taste test after boiling with scaled hop additions before chilling with immersion chiller was bitter chemical and bad!, i taste tested again after chilling with the immersion chiller and there was no difference. I had no idea adding an extra ounce or so of bittering hops would kill a brew? question is now what to do with it, lager for a month or two and dry hop?

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I don't think that adding more hops is the answer. Let it age for 3 months or longer til the bitterness mellows a bit. 2 months should help a lot. 4 or 5 would probably be better.

If you have a relatively low OG, maybe do a quick DME addition to boost it to help balance the IBUs.