Help on a grain bill for an English Mild

[TurnipGreen]

i’d like to brew an English mild. I’m shooting for something a little darker than the style guide and I definitely want a fuller mouthfeel. And a smooth chocolate roastyness, but not dominating the beer.

I’m thinking something that’s about:
80% Maris otter
10% midnight wheat
6% oats
3% carafa III

I’ve only ever used midnight wheat once in a chocolate stout where I was shooting for a lot of chocolate flavor. So, 10% seems like a lot but it gets me closer to the color I want. Likewise, the carafa is just there for color.

If there’s an existing recipe that fits this bill and you’d recommend i’d love to see that too. I didn’t see a lot of tasting notes on the mild recipes I have been searching.

Thanks for your help!

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I would recommend some caramel malt in the grain bill. Your recipe as is almost a light Irish stout without any crystal. I like using a mix of English 60 and 80. Also my buddy used some brown malt about 12oz in his last batch which gold medaled a large competition

 

[Sammy86]

I would recommend some caramel malt in the grain bill. Your recipe as is almost a light Irish stout without any crystal. I like using a mix of English 60 and 80. Also my buddy used some brown malt about 12oz in his last batch which gold medaled a large competition

I agree gotta add some crystal...Simpson’s has a 50-60L that I use in my ESB...gives a nice toffee/raisin flavor or like suggested above a mix of crystal malts like 40 and 120

 

[TurnipGreen]

Thanks. maris otter will give a nice toffee too so that'll be good together and help with build body to a small grain bill.

I've never used brown malt. The discription says it give a nice roast and bitterness. I'm trying to avoid the dark roast/bitterness of patent. Did you pick up any of that in your buddies beer with then brown malt?

 

[STMF]

I would reccomend some crystal malt aswell, even as high as 100-110 Lovibond.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Thanks. maris otter will give a nice toffee too so that'll be good together and help with build body to a small grain bill.

I've never used brown malt. The discription says it give a nice roast and bitterness. I'm trying to avoid the dark roast/bitterness of patent. Did you pick up any of that in your buddies beer with then brown malt?

The brown malt adds to me a more strong nutty flavor than roast. He only used like 4 ounces. Just adds a nice depth, but it's not necessary if you're hesitant.

Definitely layer in some crystal malts though, that's a must.

 

[bierhaus15]

For true, low-strength milds, you can easily use up to 15% crystal malt to both add flavor and help with mouthfeel and body. In any other style it would be too much, but for <1.040 milds it really helps and is quite common in UK versions.

 

[MSK_Chess]

British mild recipes are pretty straightforward, Pale Malt, crystal malt, patent/chocolate malt and flaked/toriffied wheat. I have never seen oats in a mild recipe, but that is not to say it will not work. They also use invert sugar quite a bit which you might want to avoid if you want a full bodied beverage. Here is a typical one, Gales festival Mild, now brewed by Fullers.

Pale Malt 85%
Black patent Malt 5%
Crystal Malt 3%
Invert sugar 5%
Torrified wheat 1%

If you want a full body simply leave out the invert and bump up the pale malt

http://www.bruguru.com/gales_festival_mild

 

[MSK_Chess]

I have never seen 15% crystal in any recipe below 1040, infact the only recipe that I have ever seen that uses 15% crystal is a Dark Ruby Mild @5.7ABV with an OG of 1058.

 

[bierhaus15]

I have never seen 15% crystal in any recipe below 1040, infact the only recipe that I have ever seen that uses 15% crystal is a Dark Ruby Mild @5.7ABV with an OG of 1058.

Have you looked through the old Protz/Wheeler recipe books? Many recipes contain 15% or more crystal malts. Granted, far more have similar or greater amounts of invert, although much of that usage is no 2 and 3 invert and those often contain ~16% unfermentables if you believe Ragus.

Even Caledonia uses 10-15% crystal malts for much of their range.

 

[MSK_Chess]

yes infact I have the Wheeler book and as ar as I can tell only two recipes have anything approaching a 15% crystal ratio, Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby page 118 and Arkells Mash-tun Mild,page 104. Some like Jennings Dark mild p.116 have no crystal at all. Maybe Thwaites Nutty black has something approaching a 15% crystal ratio, but others like Belhavahen 60/ page 108 has only 60g's.

As far as far as I can tell when he was researching his book had no choice but to assume invert as the recipes he was given came nowhere near the strength of the beverage on its own. Its a great pity what has happened to British ales, they used to be awesome. I remember Boddingtons from the 1980's, it was delicious and creamy. I bought a case the other day and literally poured it away, it was watery, flavourless, insipid and an insult to our craft.

 

[kh54s10]

I don't have midnight wheat in my database, But do you really think it is going to be anywhere near light with 10% midnight wheat (550L) and another 3% Carafa III (490-560L)? It appears to me, without putting the recipe in Beersmith that this one would be very dark if not BLACK!

Sorry, don't have a suggestion on a recipe as I have only brewed one English Mild.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Yeah, I’m wanting something darker that the style guide. I want low gravity, full mouthfeel and I want it to look like a dark, thick, meal-in-a-glass.

I haven’t tried a ton of milds, but the ones I’ve really liked were pretty close to black.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

For true, low-strength milds, you can easily use up to 15% crystal malt to both add flavor and help with mouthfeel and body. In any other style it would be too much, but for <1.040 milds it really helps and is quite common in UK versions.

No. As a general rule, US brewers use far too much crystal - it's a rare British beer that goes much above 8% crystal. OTOH US brewers tend to over-attenuate their beers and ignore the role that yeast can play in contributing mouthfeel.

In the case of mild, the 20th-century norm looks something like 6% crystal and 10% invert #3, with a reasonably high FG. There are a few examples of more but they are exceptions - for instance Whitbread used 15% "French crystal" in their milds in the 1930s, but that may have been tied up with them struggling to feed the demand for sweet stout. It dropped again during the war. But there are more examples of brewers going lower - Lees used about 3% crystal for instance.

The colour comes from the use of dark sugars and caramel, not malt. Crystal was often the darkest malt in mild grists, if you're using dark malts, certainly >5%, then you're getting more into the stout family.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the old Wheeler books - his recipes have evolved considerably through time reflecting his greater knowledge of what actually happens inside breweries, and the greater availability of specialist ingredients.

 

[Hanglow]

This is quite a good list of grists for dark milds, as the OP states in it they are from a variety of sources so might be from the likes of Graham wheeler's recipes too.
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56335&hilit=mild

 

[BeardedBrews]

I would suggest the inclusion of UK Pale Chocolate (200L). Nice and mellow.

My last mild was:
1.038 og 20srm ish
84 MO
4 c60
4 c120
4 pale chocolate
4 black prinz

A bit on the dark side of style but quite drinkable. I think you could sub some or all of the black with pale chocolate too modify color and flavor, the chocolate was there but not strong.

I enjoy the flavors that a bit of dark crystal adds, compliments the yeast.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I finally got around to brewing this. The wort tasted great. Definitely not a stout, but still pretty close to black. That’s pretty much what I was shooting for.

I did end up using some brown malt and a bit of crystal. I can’t get pale chocolate malt at my LHBS so I stuck with midnight wheat and I think I needed that to keep it so dark too.

10 gallon happily chugging along in the basement.

I’m really looking forward to this beer for a crisp fall afternoon.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I finally got around to brewing this. The wort tasted great. Definitely not a stout, but still pretty close to black. That’s pretty much what I was shooting for.

I did end up using some brown malt and a bit of crystal. I can’t get pale chocolate malt at my LHBS so I stuck with midnight wheat and I think I needed that to keep it so dark too.

10 gallon happily chugging along in the basement.

I’m really looking forward to this beer for a crisp fall afternoon.

That sounds awesome. I REALLY want to brew a mild for my own consumption as well here soon. They're truly just the perfect fall chugger. In fact, I'm definitely going to brew one now! haha

 

[James86]

No. As a general rule, US brewers use far too much crystal - it's a rare British beer that goes much above 8% crystal. OTOH US brewers tend to over-attenuate their beers and ignore the role that yeast can play in contributing mouthfeel.

In the case of mild, the 20th-century norm looks something like 6% crystal and 10% invert #3, with a reasonably high FG. There are a few examples of more but they are exceptions - for instance Whitbread used 15% "French crystal" in their milds in the 1930s, but that may have been tied up with them struggling to feed the demand for sweet stout. It dropped again during the war. But there are more examples of brewers going lower - Lees used about 3% crystal for instance.

The colour comes from the use of dark sugars and caramel, not malt. Crystal was often the darkest malt in mild grists, if you're using dark malts, certainly >5%, then you're getting more into the stout family.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the old Wheeler books - his recipes have evolved considerably through time reflecting his greater knowledge of what actually happens inside breweries, and the greater availability of specialist ingredients.

What this man says. I'm from Birmingham and I grew up drinking mild. One of my faves was banks mild which is basically their brew XI recipe with more invert sugar added for colour.

If you haven't already tried it whack up a batch of orfys mild. It's a great brew.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I bottled this up this weekend and it thasted pretty darn good. The folks that know an authentic mild might be offended, but it’s what I was shooting for.

The grain bill for 11 gallons looked like this:
12# maris otter
1.5# midnight wheat
0.5# 80L crystal
0.5# brown malt
0.5# toasted oats

Thanks for the brown malt suggestion. I think that paired really well to give a nice chocolate/toffee. I’m gonna play more with brown malt, maybe in a porter.

I’ll try to get a picture and some notes once it’s all carbed up.

 

[BeardedBrews]

1.5# midnight wheat

I’ll try to get a picture and some notes once it’s all carbed up.

In a competition you might get comments about color vs style if you declared it as a Mild, I'd imagine it will finish out looking like the light end of the porter spectrum.

That said, I bet it tastes great.

 

[TurnipGreen]

So, I couldn’t wait. I usually can’t. It not fully carbed yet but it’s only been a week in the bottle. It turned out exactly what I was hoping for really dark, nice hint of chocolate, very drinkable. It came in at 3.4% so I can come home from work and have one before dinner, maybe two, and still feel my face by the end of the night.

Hopefully it gets a pretty head when it’s full carbed. It ought to.

Thanks again, maple grove. That brown malt is definitely what ties it all together.