Hello and some questions

[Joe61]

Greetings. Finally decided to make the jump into homebrewing. Picked up some equipment at my local shop along with a "Brewers Best" extract kit (dunkel). Everything's in the fermenter now and I am learning the patience game.

Been reading the great info in this forum, which has already answered many of my questions and concerns.

Some questions I still have...

Hydrometer.
I understand how it works (or at least how to use it). Temperature has an effect as it is calibrated to a certain temp. Question is... What temp to you adjust the reading for? Ambient room temp or temp of the liquid? I understand that the wort gets cooled down before taking the OG reading, but there can still be a difference of several degrees between the two.

I realize the potential adjustment would be minor. Just curious as to which is technically correct.

Time in fermenter.
I tried to follow my recipe to the letter. Then I started reading the info here where the consensus seems to be that most commercial recipe instructions are wrong. Mine states to wait 48 hours after bubbles in the airlock stop and then rack/bottle. That should take 5-7 days and it looks like I am on target for that (although my bubbles stopped earlier than expected, I now know that the airlock is not a measurement device. I will verify things with the hydrometer prior to racking).

Just about all the advice in the stickies here indicate that a total of 5-7 days is to short. Seems 2-3 weeks is the recommended time in the primary fermenter. Thoughts? I obviously want to drink this brew sooner rather than later, but am willing to wait if it means better results. Just concerned about deviating from the instructions.

Yeast
Seems most advise to re-hydrate yeast. My instructions specificall stated NOT to rehydrate. Too late for this batch, but what is the consensus on this? Ignore the directions and rehydrate? Or is it not that important?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[unionrdr]

The paper inside the hydrometer will state at what temp the reading is to be taken. Here's a correction program that's handy; http://www.brewheads.com/gravcorrect.php
When the beer starts all the rapid bubbling, it's in initial fermentation. When the rapid bubbling slows or stops, only this initial fermentation is done. It'll then slowly, uneventfully creep down to a stable FG, or Final Gravity. I then give it 3-7 days to clean up any by-products of fermentation & settle out clear or slightly misty. Then rack to bottling bucket, bulk prime, & bottle.
You don't have to rehydrate the yeast, but it can save more cells to get initial fermentation going faster & healthier.

 

[Joe61]

The paper inside the hydrometer will state at what temp the reading is to be taken. Here's a correction program that's handy; http://www.brewheads.com/gravcorrect.php

Perhaps I misstated the question. I know how to read the hydrometer (mine is calibrated at 60F). I had also found the online calculator.

My question is what temp do I use for the conversion. Say I cool the wort to, for example, 75F, but the room temp is 67F (or vis a versa). Is the correction to the reading based on ambient/room temp or wort temp?

That temp difference may not make a big difference, but I haven't seen anything to indicate which temp to base the correction on.

 

[LBF]

The temp you use for the conversion for the hydrometer is the temperature of the liquid. The room temperature has no bearing on hydrometer reading. You'll also at some point probably want to verify that your hydrometer is indeed correctly calibrated. You have to do that using distilled water (which isn't a problem for me since I always have some on hand to fill my humidification devices in my humidors).

I too followed the directions at first. Then I read a lot and worked out my own course of action for brewing. Now I typically primary for 1-2 weeks and secondary for 2-4 weeks. I'll usually take a hydrometer reading at the end, but it's probably long done by the time I get around to bottling it since I almost never bottle before it's been in the fermenters at least 4 weeks. You'll also hear a lot of people say that a secondary is not needed. They are correct in most situations, however I've experimented with it both ways and I prefer to rack to a secondary because I feel it gives me a clearer beer. Plus it gets the beer off the yeast cake in a couple weeks to make room to pitch the next beer directly on the yeast cake, saving me a few bucks on yeast.

There is a lot of argument over re-hydrating dry yeast. I never did and never had an issue. Of course, I also switched to liquid yeast fairly early on. The one thing with dry yeast is that it's wrapped in a sort of nutrient layer. Re-hydrating and not pitching right away means it can eat through that layer and be sort of starving for more. If I use dry yeast again, I'll just dump it in the fermenter and go. A dry yeast packet has far more viable cells in it than you need for a 5-gallon batch unless it's horribly expired.

I understand waiting can be hard. I fought with it for a long time. This is my third year brewing and it's the first year that I'm actually managing to get ahead with my brewing, but that's partly because I'm now able to brew double batches (in my case 11 gallons at a time) so it's easier to stockpile. The one smart thing I did from the very start was to set aside a 6-pack of each batch for aging. The idea was that at 6 months, 1 year and 1.5 years from the date it was bottled, there would be one beer for me and one for my brother to sample and see how aging affected things. Was a very good idea too, because the second beer I brewed was a modified Dry Irish Stout kit. It was ok at first, really kind of blah at 6 months, but at one year.... freaking wow! It was good enough that I sorely regretted downing the rest of the two cases long before they were really good. I never would have known without aging some though.

 

[unionrdr]

Dry yeast comes with more cells because most pitch it dry. Things can get through the cell walls that shouldn't in their dry, weakened state. Rehydrating in warm water of 90F or so gives them a chance to strengthen their cell walls & be healthier when you pitch them at within 10 degrees of wort temp. Pitching fry can loose up to 50% of the yeast cells. A batch under ideal conditions & of average gravity can be done in 10 days in my experiences. But 3 weeks is about average. I don't use a secondary unless oaking, adding fruit or something. And I get clear beer.

 

[Joe61]

Thanks to LBF and unionrdr for answering my questions.

I understand waiting can be hard. I fought with it for a long time. This is my third year brewing and it's the first year that I'm actually managing to get ahead with my brewing, but that's partly because I'm now able to brew double batches (in my case 11 gallons at a time) so it's easier to stockpile. The one smart thing I did from the very start was to set aside a 6-pack of each batch for aging. The idea was that at 6 months, 1 year and 1.5 years from the date it was bottled, there would be one beer for me and one for my brother to sample and see how aging affected things. Was a very good idea too, because the second beer I brewed was a modified Dry Irish Stout kit. It was ok at first, really kind of blah at 6 months, but at one year.... freaking wow! It was good enough that I sorely regretted downing the rest of the two cases long before they were really good. I never would have known without aging some though.

Thanks for reminding me of another issue I am having trouble wrapping my head around.

Whether right or wrong, I had always understood that it was bad to store *commercial* bottled beer for long periods of time. Especially at room temperature. Even worse if the bottle was chilled at one point and then was raised to a higher temperature.

Is there any truth to this? If so, does any of it apply to home brew beer? Is there a difference between bottling a home-brew and begging in regards to "aging" and shelf life? Sitting on a shelf at room temp for 1 year just seems counter-intuitive to me.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Some questions I still have...

Hydrometer.
What temp to you adjust the reading for? Ambient room temp or temp of the liquid?

Welcome to the obsession! Good questions and the answers above are very good. You are measuring the Specific Gravity of the wort or beer. Take a temperature reading at the same time you have the hydrometer floating in the sample jar. (Some hydrometers have a thermometer built in.) That is the temperature to consider. Use a correction table as recommended above to adjust the reading as needed.

Time in fermenter.
wait 48 hours after bubbles in the airlock stop and then rack/bottle. That should take 5-7 days and it looks like I am on target for that (although my bubbles stopped earlier than expected, I now know that the airlock is not a measurement device. I will verify things with the hydrometer prior to racking).

You are on the right track here. Remember this: Airlocks lie! Hydrometers don't. Most beers will finish initial fermentation in 5-10 days depending on original gravity, yeast strain and viable cells, and temperature. The only way to know for certain that fermentation is complete is by taking hydrometer readings. Three identical readings over three successive days is usually adequate. It doesn't hurt to leave the beer on the yeast for another week or so after FG is reached. There is some debate as to whether it does any good or not. That's something you can sort out for yourself as you brew more.

Bottling too early, before the beer has completed its fermentation, can lead to exploding bottles (bottle grenades). That can be dangerous so it is usually wise to err on the side of patience.

Just about all the advice in the stickies here indicate that a total of 5-7 days is to short. Seems 2-3 weeks is the recommended time in the primary fermenter. Thoughts? ... Just concerned about deviating from the instructions.

Don't worry about deviating from instructions. There is more than one way to get from here to there and the information others have posted in this thread is pretty solid. I, too, prefer to use a secondary vessel after FG is reached. The dominant thinking on this forum is to leave the beer in primary until time to package but there are a few of us who, for our own reasons, prefer the older method.

Yeast
Seems most advise to re-hydrate yeast. My instructions specificall stated NOT to rehydrate. Too late for this batch, but what is the consensus on this? Ignore the directions and rehydrate? Or is it not that important?

The dry yeast package instructions tell you to sprinkle the yeast dry and that works. However, if you visit the yeast manufacturer's websites they nearly all recommend rehydrating. Most give very specific instructions as to the best method. I take that as the difference between "what you can do" as opposed to "what is best practice". I use dry yeast a lot and I choose to rehydrate every time I use it. I believe it is "best practice". Does it really matter in the end? Who knows? Again, spend some time brewing and reading and decide for yourself. In any case you'll most likely make some very good beer.

Good luck to you and cheers!

 

[LBF]

Thanks to LBF and unionrdr for answering my questions.




Thanks for reminding me of another issue I am having trouble wrapping my head around.

Whether right or wrong, I had always understood that it was bad to store *commercial* bottled beer for long periods of time. Especially at room temperature. Even worse if the bottle was chilled at one point and then was raised to a higher temperature.

Is there any truth to this? If so, does any of it apply to home brew beer? Is there a difference between bottling a home-brew and begging in regards to "aging" and shelf life? Sitting on a shelf at room temp for 1 year just seems counter-intuitive to me.

You're welcome!

Not all beer ages well, and most "commercial" bottled beer does not age well. Typically stouts, porters, imperial ales, barleywine, sours, and Belgians age well, but I figure it doesn't hurt to try with other beer. The worst case is I have to dump a couple bottles. So far, that hasn't happened, but I have had some that at 1 year in the bottle were no better than they were when they were ready to be consumed after bottle conditioning. Some have improved though and that alone is worth the effort. I've been considering brewing a Kolsch, but knowing that it's a beer best consumed early because of it's delicate nature, I probably will not save anything to be aged.

The biggest killers to beer when you're aging is constant temperature swings and light. Light destroys the preservative power of the hops and gives it that "skunky" flavor. Which is why homebrewers are told to bottle in brown bottles, to help cut down on light transmission. I store all of my bottled beer in a corner of the basement. The temperature there stays fairly consistent in the mid 60's and I store the beer in cases. Soon I'll replace all the cardboard with wood boxes I've built, but that's another matter.

I have a family friend who swills a lot of the BMC stuff, but he did explain to me that he's found you can chill a beer and warm it to room temperature three times before it seems to taste "off." Through my own experiences, I tend to agree, so I try not to chill a beer more than twice before consuming it. Not sure if it applies to all beer or the exact science behind it, but I'd rather error on caution.

Now, one other thing I noticed... I bought a couple bottles of Rochefort Trappist 10 because it was recommended to me by a good friend. When I was looking over the bottles, I was surprised to see that there was an expiration date on the bottle.... which when I purchased them two years ago I believe said something like Nov. 2018. I don't expect to be able to make my homebrew last that long, but it was a bit of a surprise to see on a sort of commercially produced beer.

 

[Joe61]

Thanks again for the information.

While I am waiting on this batch to finish in the fermenter, I am already thinking ahead to my next batch.

This first one will be bottled. Moving forward I am very much considering kegging. I already have a kegerator, which has been used for commercial kegs.

I understand the difference in keg types and that I will need additional equipment to convert for a home-brew keg. I also understand the process may a bit more complicated as carbonation is handled differently. I will do some more research and talk to my local supply shop about those details.

My question relates back to timing and shelf-life. As explains above, homebrew will keep well in bottles for quite some time. Does that change when not bottling and storing in kegs? For example, brew some beer for fall/winter and let it stay in the keg for several months.If I did that I am guessing that I would carbonate as normal and just store the keg in my basement (constant temp in the low 60s)? Am I thinking along the right lines?

Is "shelf-life" of my beer reduced by kegging? Does that change if I tap the keg?

 

[Calder]

Now, one other thing I noticed... I bought a couple bottles of Rochefort Trappist 10 because it was recommended to me by a good friend. When I was looking over the bottles, I was surprised to see that there was an expiration date on the bottle.... which when I purchased them two years ago I believe said something like Nov. 2018. I don't expect to be able to make my homebrew last that long, but it was a bit of a surprise to see on a sort of commercially produced beer.

All consumable European products have to have an expiration date. Not sure which brewery it is, but one of the Belgian brewers date stamp their bottles 20 years after the bottling date.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I understand the difference in keg types and that I will need additional equipment to convert for a home-brew keg. I also understand the process may a bit more complicated as carbonation is handled differently. I will do some more research and talk to my local supply shop about those details.

My question relates back to timing and shelf-life. As explains above, homebrew will keep well in bottles for quite some time. Does that change when not bottling and storing in kegs? For example, brew some beer for fall/winter and let it stay in the keg for several months.If I did that I am guessing that I would carbonate as normal and just store the keg in my basement (constant temp in the low 60s)? Am I thinking along the right lines?

Is "shelf-life" of my beer reduced by kegging? Does that change if I tap the keg?

Like most of us here I bottled for quite a while before taking the plunge into kegging. I have never looked back.

Kegging is far simpler and less prone to screw-ups than bottling.

First: It takes about a half hour to transfer beer from a fermenter to a keg, purge the headspace in the keg and clean the fermenter. Then you are done!

Second: You don't need to be absolutely certain the beer has reached FG before packaging. There is no fear of "bottle grenades" if you should package at 1.014 and the beer actually finishes at 1.010. While certainly not the ideal approach it is nice to know that the extra pressure can be handled by the keg.

Third: There is no need to add priming sugar and hope you got it right. Set the CO2 pressure to serving pressure (+/- 12 psi for my system), wait a week and the beer is ready to serve. (You can speed the process along by force-carbonating which is a good subject for another thread).

Regarding shelf life, if kept chilled to serving temperatures of 38-42F I have been given to believe the beer will keep at least a year. Although YMMV and there may be others on the thread who can give more difinitive information on this, I have never had a beer go bad while awaiting consumption from a keg.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks again for the information.

While I am waiting on this batch to finish in the fermenter, I am already thinking ahead to my next batch.

This first one will be bottled. Moving forward I am very much considering kegging. I already have a kegerator, which has been used for commercial kegs.

I understand the difference in keg types and that I will need additional equipment to convert for a home-brew keg. I also understand the process may a bit more complicated as carbonation is handled differently. I will do some more research and talk to my local supply shop about those details.

My question relates back to timing and shelf-life. As explains above, homebrew will keep well in bottles for quite some time. Does that change when not bottling and storing in kegs? For example, brew some beer for fall/winter and let it stay in the keg for several months.If I did that I am guessing that I would carbonate as normal and just store the keg in my basement (constant temp in the low 60s)? Am I thinking along the right lines?

Is "shelf-life" of my beer reduced by kegging? Does that change if I tap the keg?

A keg is just a big bottle that also happens to be light-proof. You should have no problems storing your beer in one for quite a while. Yes it changes if you tap it. You won't be able to store it for long then.....because you will want to drink all of it. I don't think the shelf life will be the problem.