Have I been batch sparging wrong?

[storytyme]

Since an increase in mash efficiency, with all other variables unchanged, will equal an increase in brewhouse efficiency, I think the distinction isn't all that critically important.

That said, I believe most folks here are talking about mash efficiency.

Great. Thanks.

 

[DisraeliEers]

It's my belief that the key to good efficiency in batch sparging lies in two things: having a fine enough crush, and stirring very vigorously before each drain. The latter is where I think many people could see massive improvement and perhaps don't realize how important it is, or what I mean by vigorously. Stir it like it just kicked your puppy. Then stir it harder. Do it for at least 5 of the 10 mins you might have used letting it settle before draining.

Doing this lets me get very good and repeatable efficiency without tricks like slow drains, mashouts, decoction, step mashes, multiple sparge additions, extra grain, etc. It lets me do my 20 min single infusion, single cold water sparge addition with a fully wide open drain without letting it rest before draining.

I realize I can be fairly vocal about this stuff sometimes, I'm actually super low key in real life. I also know there's a million ways to do things, and that's fine by me. I just want people to see that there may be a different approach that could get them to where they want that they might also consider easier. I am thrilled with both the simplicity of my brewdays and the quality of the rewards. I'll pipe down now.

This is extremely interesting. I might have to try this. Unfortunately I won't be able to gain much info since I just bought a mill for myself so my next brew will have multiple new variables anyway.

So do you use different mash water ratio or do you usually stick to one (like 1.25 qt/lb or something). I usually use 1.50 qt/lb because for me (with my 0.15 gal/lb absorption) that gives me about the same amount of mash water and sparge water, but with a 20 minute mash this number might be more important.

This has been an awesome thread to read through.

 

[masonsjax]

I shoot for 1.5 qts/lb or higher. I have noticed lower efficiency when it's much dryer than that.

 

[MeanDeuce]

piggybacking off the OP's question. When I select a single infusion, full body, batch sparge profile in Beersmith it has me batch sparge in two steps. So....

1) initial mash in at 168*, hold temp at 156* for an hour
2) Drain wort
3) Batch sparge in two steps, add 1.5gal and 3gal at 168*

My question is in relation to #3, do I:

A) add the 1.5 gal sparge water, stir and drain, then add the 3 gal, stir, drain and begin boil
B) add the 1.5 gal sparge water, stir and then add remaining 3 gal(4.5 total gal in the mash tun), stir, before draining entire mash tun

I've been doing process A for my past couple of brews, however that 1.5 gal number seems awfully low when rinsing 7lbs of grain. Is process B going to have too high of a water/grain ratio and extract tannins?

Trying to improve my process while raising my efficiency in the meantime.

 

[doug293cz]

piggybacking off the OP's question. When I select a single infusion, full body, batch sparge profile in Beersmith it has me batch sparge in two steps. So....

1) initial mash in at 168*, hold temp at 156* for an hour
2) Drain wort
3) Batch sparge in two steps, add 1.5gal and 3gal at 168*

My question is in relation to #3, do I:

A) add the 1.5 gal sparge water, stir and drain, then add the 3 gal, stir, drain and begin boil
B) add the 1.5 gal sparge water, stir and then add remaining 3 gal(4.5 total gal in the mash tun), stir, before draining entire mash tun

I've been doing process A for my past couple of brews, however that 1.5 gal number seems awfully low when rinsing 7lbs of grain. Is process B going to have too high of a water/grain ratio and extract tannins?

Trying to improve my process while raising my efficiency in the meantime.

Not sure why BeerSmith would recommend different sparge water amounts for each step. Kai (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparging_Analysis has shown that equal size sparge water additions lead to the highest efficiency. I would recommend 2.25 gal for each sparge step.

You want option A. Be sure to drain as much wort at each step (including initial run-off) as you can in order to maximize efficiency.

Water to grain ratio is not what causes tannin extraction. Tannins are extracted when you have high mash temps (over 170°F) and high mash pH (over 6, IIRC.)

Brew on

 

[jbaysurfer]

Not sure why BeerSmith would recommend different sparge water amounts for each step. Kai (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparging_Analysis has shown that equal size sparge water additions lead to the highest efficiency. I would recommend 2.25 gal for each sparge step.

You want option A. Be sure to drain as much wort at each step (including initial run-off) as you can in order to maximize efficiency.

Water to grain ratio is not what causes tannin extraction. Tannins are extracted when you have high mash temps (over 170°F) and high mash pH (over 6, IIRC.)

Brew on

BS has a little box to can check to sparge with equal amounts. It's on the mash profile page for whichever batch sparge profile you choose.

Edit: in practice, these amounts are only estimates. Drain your mash tun then measure your volume. Subtract that from your boil size to figure out how much sparge water you need, divide that by the number of batches you intend to do.

IE, my typical 5G batch has 7.5G boil size and I get 2.5G of first runnings. I sparge with 2 batches, 5G/2=2.5G of sparge water per batch.

Like my 3rd edit LOL!: For deuces question, I'd just sparge with 2.25G per batch...so long as it was enough water to cover the grainbed. If it's not, I'd sparge with the entire 4.5G although from experience with 5G batches and a 10G mash tun, that's going to be a very full mash tun if you do it in a single sparge. 2.25 is usually enough water to fully immerse my grainbed...depending on the size of the grainbill obviously.

 

[MeanDeuce]

I wonder if Beersmith did that to take into account the 10 gal mash tun.

Regardless, thanks guys, just needed the sanity check.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I wonder if Beersmith did that to take into account the 10 gal mash tun.

Regardless, thanks guys, just needed the sanity check.

No, like I said. Go to the mash page, click on the little profile icon next to the mash profile title, and click the box that says: Use equal Batch Sizes. And it'll do it for you. If you have "batch sparge using batches that fill (this is a fill in field, I think it defaults to 90%) of mash tun. You'll sometimes get an odd batch size as a 3rd step. I just divide it by two and increase the first two steps by that amount. It's hard to describe with text. If I could show ya I would. LOL..

 

[MeanDeuce]

All those were checked.

I fixed it but the recipe steps didn't update. It's ok. I got what I need to do for the brew. Thanks again

 

[jbaysurfer]

All those were checked.

I fixed it but the recipe steps didn't update. It's ok. I got what I need to do for the brew. Thanks again

No worries. Sometimes when that happens I leave the page and come back again and it updates. Should work. Good luck to ya. Like I said, those are just suggestions anyway, all you need to know is how much mash water to use, and your boil size and after draining your mashtun you can figure the rest on the fly.

 

[pablosbrewing]

All those were checked.

I fixed it but the recipe steps didn't update. It's ok. I got what I need to do for the brew. Thanks again

Re-selecting the equipment profile from within the recipe might fix it - I found I had to do this this when dialing in my brew kettle boil off rate.

 

[elerten]

You need less grain to make the same beer if you run it through twice do to the increase in extraction efficiency. You probably reduce your grain bill and cost by 10%-15%.

I'm really lucky I guess. Bell's charges us like a buck for a pound of base malt, and even the specialty malts are like a buck thirty. There's a huge mill in the grain room you can use that does a nice medium crush, and you can just double crush if you are looking for more.

 

[davehuge]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about efficiency. Yours isn't that low. Your technique seems fine, the water temp is right, just mix well, allow it to settle and then vorlauf and drain.

What's important is consistency. If you get a consistent efficiency and are nailing your gravities then your doing well.