Has anyone tried a Din Rail mounted 220v coil Contactor

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Mdsutton

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Hello all,
I am looking to purchase some Din rail mounted contactors, and was wondering if anyone has used these:
CT1 2P 63A 220V/230V 50/60HZ Din rail Household ac contactor 2NO
From a Ebay.
Wondering if the coil can be powered by 110v.

Thanks,
Martin
 
Hello all,
I am looking to purchase some Din rail mounted contactors, and was wondering if anyone has used these:
CT1 2P 63A 220V/230V 50/60HZ Din rail Household ac contactor 2NO
From a Ebay.
Wondering if the coil can be powered by 110v.

Thanks,
Martin

If it's a 220V coil then you need to power it with 220V. There should be the exact same thing except with a 110V coil out there.

electric brew supply, Auber, etc, sell 63A 220V contactors with a 110V coil.
 
CT1 2P 63A 220V/230V 50/60HZ Din rail Household ac contactor 2NO
From a Ebay.
Wondering if the coil can be powered by 110v.
Contactors like these should be thick as sprats as Europe uses 220 and DIN (the D stands for Deutsch) mountings are common. I'm sure a similar (DIN mount) part with 120V coil can be found but you might have to look around a bit.

The 220V coil isn't likely to engage the contacts fully with 110 VAC applied. What might work (and I do emphasize the might) is to run the 110 through a diode to charge a largish cap and connect the coil across the cap. This would give you, respectively, 155 or 179 VDC for 110 or 120 VAC in which is 71 or 77% of the coil rating. A related problem with this approach is that the core might get permanently magnetized as the field doesn't reverse and be reluctant to let go when the voltage is removed.

You can also get double 155 - 179 with a second diode and cap (Greinacher circuit).
 
I'm thinking the only reason to use a 220 coil is to power on the box, if ran through the whole system your running a hot wire through the switches, not a great idea

Absurd. There is no reason not to run 220 through control circuits. It's done all the time. For example, the fan relay in my HVAC system has a 220V coil.

To the O.P.: There's your simple answer. Assuming you are doing a system with 220V heaters you will have 220 in the box. Just operate the contactors with that.
 
Guess that a good reason to just use regular $10 contractors or relays? I really dont understand the need to make the inside "look" all fancy... But to each his own I guess. Is their another reason other than the cosmetics when you have your panel pulled apart?


You say your concerned about cost so I'm confused by the choice?
 
Remember the cartoon showing three astronauts with the caption "We are sitting atop one of the most complex engineering accomplishments of mankind every component of which was supplied by the lowest bidder".
 
Remember the cartoon showing three astronauts with the caption "We are sitting atop one of the most complex engineering accomplishments of mankind every component of which was supplied by the lowest bidder".

Actually it was a also in a movie, Armageddon .... It was on last night and I watched it ... not really sure how that pertains to a non din mounted relay..What are you implying?
Non din mounted relays / contractors are used in all sorts of high end equipment like furnaces... the bottom line is how it mounts has very little to do with reliability just layout and size mainly when dealing with complex setups.. I use 24v dc coil operated 25a omron relays salvaged from old xerox machines in my brewery... No its not really meant to be portable but I see no reason it wouldn't be reliable if it was. And yes it works fine with no issues for 2 years now and many brew sessions (just over 50).
 
another issue Ive had is the cheaper screw or bolted relays are unstable when moved, since I move my box around a lot from place to place Ive had several short out or even buzz loudly from not being perfectly flat, the din rail offers a more stable mounting structure

Never heard of such a thing... I service equipment with both Din and non din mounted relay cases and I dont see how it makes a difference other than with din mounted relays you can cram them closer together and actually create more of a possible issue with heat buildup if anything.
 
Actually it was a also in a movie, Armageddon .... It was on last night and I watched it ... not really sure how that pertains to a non din mounted relay..

It doesn't. It was in response to:

Guess that a good reason to just use regular $10 contractors or relays?

What are you implying?

With the implication that "The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
 
It doesn't. It was in response to:





With the implication that "The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."

Better to buy the same contactors for much more $$ through a middleman such as aubrins right?... Paying more somehow makes then "better quality"

Its been over two years and 50 brews now... I'm still waiting to feel the "bitterness" from saving over $1,500 on my build vs going with the "Quality" suppliers Kal recommended... I would have to have a lot of failures to make up for that though...
 
Deece,
Yes Ebrew has them for 110V coils, but a bit more money then the 220v. As to how clean it looks inside, that would be nice, I also think these are a little smaller than regular contactors, not sure about that though.
Lets see the from of your panel.
What are the Serial connections for?

Martin
 
Better to buy the same contactors for much more $$ through a middleman such as aubrins right?... Paying more somehow makes then "better quality"

Obviously the proper approach is to research the components you are planning to use obtaining reliability info eg, MTBF, expected number of cycles data and so on from the manufacturer and then find a supplier that will sell the selected devices to you at reasonable markup. Now what you consider a reasonable markup depends on what you need from the supplier. If all you need is the part then it should obviously be smaller than if you need the extensive customer support that Auberins (or whatever it is) supplies. That guy will spend hours on the phone with a poet explaining to him how to install one of their controllers in his espresso machine. I'm not kidding about this. A poet type friend of mine tried to do this conversion (but wound up coming to me with a box of parts).

Its been over two years and 50 brews now... I'm still waiting to feel the "bitterness" from saving over $1,500 on my build vs going with the "Quality" suppliers Kal recommended... I would have to have a lot of failures to make up for that though...
Kal may well get the last laugh. Be patient. Two yrs isn't that long. I would hapily pay $1500 for a third and fourth 9 (reliability 99.99% instead of 99%) as IMO the bitterness of a component failure in the middle of a brew exceeds the sweetness of saving a few hundred (even 15 hundred) bucks on cheap components.

You may, with your cheap components, experience multiple failures in your next brewing session. Or you may go 20 yrs and hundreds of brews without. We are dealing with probabilities here and so we cant predict what actually will happen. All we can do is improve the odds by selecting more reliable stuff (which, surprise, surprise tends to cost more). Even that is no guarantee as reliable stuff fails too - it just takes, on average, longer.

I know all this falls on deaf ears to those that don't understand probability theory. If I were running the school system in the US it would be mandatory Readin, Ritin, Rithmetic and Probability theory. Being innumerate in the latter just grants the government, politicians, purveyors of cheap junk and others the ability to pull the wool over the public's eyes over and over again.
 
Deece,
Yes Ebrew has them for 110V coils, but a bit more money then the 220v. As to how clean it looks inside, that would be nice, I also think these are a little smaller than regular contactors, not sure about that though.
Lets see the from of your panel.
What are the Serial connections for?

Martin


Some of my contactors are 220v as well. The smaller ones on the middle rail for my pumps. I can't see there being a big difference in which you chose unless you are trying to stay Stricktly 110v or 220v on your whole panel. Get the 220v if it saves you some bucks. I went with the ones from Ebrew based solely on Ryan's customer service, I felt with him a few times and he is great to work with and ships fast from the states. The serial cables link the front and back panels together. One for temp sensors one for the rest. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439412551.713385.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439412591.018661.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439412621.562326.jpg

I think there is a thread under something like "60a b2b panel done" or something like that that has a little more info on it.
 
Obviously the proper approach is to research the components you are planning to use obtaining reliability info eg, MTBF, expected number of cycles data and so on from the manufacturer and then find a supplier that will sell the selected devices to you at reasonable markup. Now what you consider a reasonable markup depends on what you need from the supplier. If all you need is the part then it should obviously be smaller than if you need the extensive customer support that Auberins (or whatever it is) supplies. That guy will spend hours on the phone with a poet explaining to him how to install one of their controllers in his espresso machine. I'm not kidding about this. A poet type friend of mine tried to do this conversion (but wound up coming to me with a box of parts).

Kal may well get the last laugh. Be patient. Two yrs isn't that long. I would hapily pay $1500 for a third and fourth 9 (reliability 99.99% instead of 99%) as IMO the bitterness of a component failure in the middle of a brew exceeds the sweetness of saving a few hundred (even 15 hundred) bucks on cheap components.

You may, with your cheap components, experience multiple failures in your next brewing session. Or you may go 20 yrs and hundreds of brews without. We are dealing with probabilities here and so we cant predict what actually will happen. All we can do is improve the odds by selecting more reliable stuff (which, surprise, surprise tends to cost more). Even that is no guarantee as reliable stuff fails too - it just takes, on average, longer.

I know all this falls on deaf ears to those that don't understand probability theory. If I were running the school system in the US it would be mandatory Readin, Ritin, Rithmetic and Probability theory. Being innumerate in the latter just grants the government, politicians, purveyors of cheap junk and others the ability to pull the wool over the public's eyes over and over again.

We are talking about a home brewing rig for a hobby here and not a space shuttle right?

Do you actually think having a component fail in my home brewery and losing a batch of beer would make me regret not spending $1,500 more on the equipment through middlemen who charge more to stock the stuff in the states?

WOW.... All I can say You must be on a totally different financial scale than me...

The switches, indicators and pids I used are just as good as the the ones aubrins sells... most of the components are actually from the same suppliers as they use... I've done my homework.. I see everyday how it works more often than not and that is the same cheap product rebranded and sold at a higher markup to people like you who believe and bank on the belief that price and quality always go hand in hand... There are cases where I agree with you but its just not the case more times than not. especially today. The 25a relays I used are as little as $10 a piece online and they are omron brand... I recyled them from equipment I installed 15 years ago or so and they have cycled many many times and are still going strong.
The pids I use are very reliable I have used them on 2 builds now with no issues.. The temp probes? same manufacturer as aubrins uses, my Teledyne ssr? was like $15 on ebay from a supplier, retail? over $150. xlr connectors are cheap but they work fine and I dont see them failing... again if you want to overengineer something for fun or bragging rights thats fine but dont try to justify it by saying if its not din rail its cheap junk...
 
We are talking about a home brewing rig for a hobby here and not a space shuttle right?
Correct.

Do you actually think having a component fail in my home brewery and losing a batch of beer would make me regret not spending $1,500 more on the equipment through middlemen who charge more to stock the stuff in the states?
No. I don't. For you getting it as cheap as possible is clearly the most important thing. For me, reliability is clearly much more important. The requirements of the system, i.e. what the customer wants and needs drive the purchase decisions. In the world I come from reliability is very important. A failed $20 relay could mean a $10,000 plane ticket to replace it. Much more cost effective to buy a $40 relay with twice the MTBF.

WOW.... All I can say You must be on a totally different financial scale than me...
As I know nothing about your financial status that is entirely possible. I am retired and comfortable - all that Social Security, you know.

..
...to people like you who believe and bank on the belief that price and quality always go hand in hand...
What on god's green earth gave you that idea? Please read the post you quoted. I wouldn't touch the stuff Aubrins sells. My controllers come from Omega and I can't remember the other manufacturer but both were ones I had experience with in professional life. One has been in service for over 20 yrs and the others over 10. I always buy professional grade stuff wherever I can but the decision to so is based on performance, manufacturer reputation, and my experience,not price. Just because it is a hobby doesn't mean it shouldn't be done with first cabin gear.

There are cases where I agree with you but its just not the case more times than not. especially today.
More times than not today products are crap. Manufacturers have realized that with the increasing sophistication of function to the point where only their factory trained technicians can fix the product they can make as much or more on repairs as on sales and/or design things to fail at a point where replacement (i.e. buying a new one) is comparable in cost to the repair. Why design a cellphone using components that would give it a 10 yr life cycle when its actual life cycle is 2?
 
Correct.

No. I don't. For you getting it as cheap as possible is clearly the most important thing. For me, reliability is clearly much more important. The requirements of the system, i.e. what the customer wants and needs drive the purchase decisions. In the world I come from reliability is very important. A failed $20 relay could mean a $10,000 plane ticket to replace it. Much more cost effective to buy a $40 relay with twice the MTBF.

As I know nothing about your financial status that is entirely possible. I am retired and comfortable - all that Social Security, you know.

..
What on god's green earth gave you that idea? Please read the post you quoted. I wouldn't touch the stuff Aubrins sells. My controllers come from Omega and I can't remember the other manufacturer but both were ones I had experience with in professional life. One has been in service for over 20 yrs and the others over 10. I always buy professional grade stuff wherever I can but the decision to so is based on performance, manufacturer reputation, and my experience,not price. Just because it is a hobby doesn't mean it shouldn't be done with first cabin gear.

More times than not today products are crap. Manufacturers have realized that with the increasing sophistication of function to the point where only their factory trained technicians can fix the product they can make as much or more on repairs as on sales and/or design things to fail at a point where replacement (i.e. buying a new one) is comparable in cost to the repair. Why design a cellphone using components that would give it a 10 yr life cycle when its actual life cycle is 2?
In this world a failed relay means the possibility of a messed up $40 batch of beer not a 10k plan ticket.... Not sure how you can relate one to another but your choice :mug:

I get what your saying... I am one of those "trained technicians"

I also fix flat screen tvs as a hobby and many are built with capacitors that have a 3000-6000hr estimated lifespan by the manufacturers...
 
Take it from an Electrician, When you buy cheap components they don't last and are dangerous. losing a $40 batch wouldn't be my worry, it would be losing my house that I would worry about when the thing catches fire or welds itself together.
As for the Din Rail Versus regular screw mount the screw mount is a hell of a lot more stable. Din rail mounts are just relying on a spring loaded clip to hold it in place. Spend the extra few bucks and buy a good quality contractor and if not at the very least buy the 62A contactor, at least it is a little beefier.
 
Take it from an Electrician, When you buy cheap components they don't last and are dangerous. losing a $40 batch wouldn't be my worry, it would be losing my house that I would worry about when the thing catches fire or welds itself together.
As for the Din Rail Versus regular screw mount the screw mount is a hell of a lot more stable. Din rail mounts are just relying on a spring loaded clip to hold it in place. Spend the extra few bucks and buy a good quality contractor and if not at the very least buy the 62A contactor, at least it is a little beefier.

Im generally onsite when I'm brewing and have plenty of safety measures myself but I see your point. plus the components I bought are all rated for use. Just because I didnt pay a lot for it doesnt make it cheap junk (again did my homework). we are talking about the same components as ebrew supply and aubrins and the like sell just with a stocking / middleman fee..

In reality as long as the stuff is mounted with proper spacing and correctly rated/ sized components are used a dangerous situation is not likely.

Actually in a din rail setup things are compacted and against one another and I would think if there was a risk it would be bigger there
 
In this world a failed relay means the possibility of a messed up $40 batch of beer not a 10k plan ticket.... Not sure how you can relate one to another but your choice :mug:

I guess I wouldn't expect you to but in doing failure analysis one must consider all potential costs of the failure. In the immediate case here the cost of the lost labor needs to be factored in. If I have a steam trap fail at the beginning of the boil (and I have) I am SOL on that batch unless I have a spare on hand and even if I do having to shut down the boiler and swap it out costs time. If I don't I have to throw out $100 worth of grain but I have also lost the 6 hrs it takes to do 3 decoctions. My labor costs nothing but that does not mean it is worth nothing to me. I value my labor as worth what I used to get paid by my employer which is a reasonable valuation because if you asked me to work for you I would only consider doing so if you offered me a similar rate. Another cost is the pain of the frustration of doing all that work and losing it because of a stupid device failure that could have been prevented by sparing or by buying a more reliable steam trap. If you value your labor at nothing and do not taste the bitterness of poor quality when you have a failure then your only cost is the replacement cost of the components and the $20 of grain and the "Better is the enemy of good enough" philosophy is OK for you. To people like me, who have had to fight that way of doing things all my career, it is anathema. At this point we are discussing philosphy. Your background, education,training, experience, and prediliction make "better is the enemy.." acceptable to you. It isn't to many. And I am more than willing to pay the extra $1500. Averaged over 100 brews that's $15 a brew for peace of mind and well worth it (to me though apparently not to you).
 
I guess I wouldn't expect you to but in doing failure analysis one must consider all potential costs of the failure. In the immediate case here the cost of the lost labor needs to be factored in. If I have a steam trap fail at the beginning of the boil (and I have) I am SOL on that batch unless I have a spare on hand and even if I do having to shut down the boiler and swap it out costs time. If I don't I have to throw out $100 worth of grain but I have also lost the 6 hrs it takes to do 3 decoctions. My labor costs nothing but that does not mean it is worth nothing to me. I value my labor as worth what I used to get paid by my employer which is a reasonable valuation because if you asked me to work for you I would only consider doing so if you offered me a similar rate. Another cost is the pain of the frustration of doing all that work and losing it because of a stupid device failure that could have been prevented by sparing or by buying a more reliable steam trap. If you value your labor at nothing and do not taste the bitterness of poor quality when you have a failure then your only cost is the replacement cost of the components and the $20 of grain and the "Better is the enemy of good enough" philosophy is OK for you. To people like me, who have had to fight that way of doing things all my career, it is anathema. At this point we are discussing philosphy. Your background, education,training, experience, and prediliction make "better is the enemy.." acceptable to you. It isn't to many. And I am more than willing to pay the extra $1500. Averaged over 100 brews that's $15 a brew for peace of mind and well worth it (to me though apparently not to you).
Again your comparing business to a diy hobby panel... two completely different things...

If this were for a person who was afraid to do anything themselves and was paying someone like you for everything then your point has more merit IMHO.
 
Again your comparing business to a diy hobby panel... two completely different things...

No, actually they aren't. The last post brings in things like one's evaluation of the worth of his time and what he will pay to avoid pain. Clearly applicable to a hobby. These concepts are clearly beyond you and so I give up.
 
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