Has anyone bought a controller from electricbiab.com

[PLOVE]

In general, setting a PID algorithm to maintain 212F at sea level will oscillate between no boil and vigorous boil. People use PWMs or PIDs with manual mode to set a percentage to maintain the level of "vigor" as desired.

This is certainly how I achieve a boil. I set my BCS to full power until I reach 210, then I dial back to a 60% duty cycle (~2/3 on; 1/3 off per second). This will hold the temps at 212 without boil-over. A previous post described setting the PWM to 1sec on/off, which would do the same thing. Sounds like a nice little system.

 

[flyingpole]

The only question I would have is there a way (or perhaps in your update) to put the controler in full manual mode for the boil. I saw there was an auto and manual as far as the process steps, and there is a way to adjust the boiling temp once reached... but. Is there a way to just add or remove power like a PID in manual mode. Curently I use a potentiometer system and as im about to build or purchase a better system, I would be very interested in this contoler If this feature was available. HECK YOU TELL ME ITS DOABLE AND I BUY TODAY.

Yes, in manual or auto mode you can adjust the set point temperature on the fly by simply pressing the up or down button on the controller at any time. Gives you analog type control but uses digital technique. The solid state relay switches power on the zero crossing point of the AC cycle so there is no issue with durability of the heater.

 

[drewmedic23]

Yes, in manual or auto mode you can adjust the set point temperature on the fly by simply pressing the up or down button on the controller at any time. Gives you analog type control but uses digital technique. The solid state relay switches power on the zero crossing point of the AC cycle so there is no issue with durability of the heater.

So just to clarify, can you manually set the element to a say 50% power setting or a timer setting (on one sec, off the next sec)?

 

[flyingpole]

Many have requested multiple hops addition alarms instead of the two that the default configuration allows. I just want to make sure that the program changes I make meet the expectations of those that asked for it.

Right now, there is an alarm that notifies the brewer to add hops at the point when boil is reached. I would retain that alarm. Is the assumption that everyone always adds some hops at the start of boil?

I would then add the option for 5 more times (in minutes) from the start of boil for subsequent hops additions.

Thus, you would set "Boil Time" to 1 hour for example, which would represent the entire boil time.

You could then specify up to 5 hops addition times for example:
H1 =10
H2 = 20
H3 = 40
H4 = 45
H5 = 50

So 10 minutes after the start of the boil, an alarm would tell you to add hops (H1)
then, 10 minutes after that, or 20 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H2),
then , 20 minutes after that, or 40 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H3),
then, 15 minutes after that, or 45 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H4),
and finally, 5 minutes after that, or 50 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H5).

Is 5 additions after the initial enough?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[flyingpole]

So just to clarify, can you manually set the element to a say 50% power setting or a timer setting (on one sec, off the next sec)?

The operation manual gives real good detail how the PID is implemented. The variables that determine the percent on and off are completely configurable. What I was getting at in my last post, is that if you had set the boil temperature to 210, and say that you wanted to change it during the brew process, you simply press the up or down button to change the target temp. So hitting the up button 2 times would immediately change the setpoint to 212. This can be done in automatic or manual mode. The only difference between manual and automatic mode is that the controller automatically advances to the next brew step in automatic mode. You can change the timer as well via the brew control menu in the middle of a timed operation.

The PID uses a 3 second integrated window. I've found that is the optimum for this heater element. Smaller windows simply did not allow the thermal mass of the heater element to regulate well enough.


Hope this helps.

 

[drewmedic23]

Many have requested multiple hops addition alarms instead of the two that the default configuration allows. I just want to make sure that the program changes I make meet the expectations of those that asked for it.

Right now, there is an alarm that notifies the brewer to add hops at the point when boil is reached. I would retain that alarm. Is the assumption that everyone always adds some hops at the start of boil?

I would then add the option for 5 more times (in minutes) from the start of boil for subsequent hops additions.

Thus, you would set "Boil Time" to 1 hour for example, which would represent the entire boil time.

You could then specify up to 5 hops addition times for example:
H1 =10
H2 = 20
H3 = 40
H4 = 45
H5 = 50

So 10 minutes after the start of the boil, an alarm would tell you to add hops (H1)
then, 10 minutes after that, or 20 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H2),
then , 10 minutes after that, or 30 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H3),
then, 15 minutes after that, or 45 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H4),
and finally, 5 minutes after that, or 50 minutes after boil started, you would be reminded to add hops again (H5).

Is 5 additions after the initial enough?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers!

I've never done more than 5 hop additions...unless it's some crazy ipa with a continuous addition, 5 should be fine. Nice improvement.

 

[kal]

Right now, there is an alarm that notifies the brewer to add hops at the point when boil is reached. I would retain that alarm. Is the assumption that everyone always adds some hops at the start of boil?

Nope! There are many beers that are all late boil hopped as it gives a much smoother bitterness. I do this in my Electric Pale Ale. Boiled for 60 mins but hops aren't added until the last 20 on down. More details on late hopping here on Jamil's site.

Then there are other beers that are boiled for 90 but hops are added from 60 on down.

Then there are beers I've made (like this one) where all the of bitterness comes from hop stands where 100% of the hops are added AFTER the boil is completely over. The hops are only steeped, sometimes for hours, at varying temperatures.

There are basically no rules: You can add hops in the mash, first wort hops (before the boil while collecting in the boil kettle), during the boil, after the boil is done, and various stages of fermentation, after fermentation, and while serving.

So it really depends. If you want to provide full flexibility you need to allow for hops at any time. IMHO, you can't limit the brewer, though there's no reason why he has to follow a schedule imposed by the box either.

Is 5 additions after the initial enough?

Some of the beers I've made have 6-7 hops additions.

There are also continually hopped beers (a la Dogfish Head) where you add hops continually throughout the boil. These would basically have an infinite number of hop additions.

All of the above is one reason why I never tried to do any sort of programming or alarming based on additions ... there are too many options available!

Kal

 

[mattd2]

Nope! There are many beers that are all late boil hopped as it gives a much smoother bitterness. I do this in my Electric Pale Ale. Boiled for 60 mins but hops aren't added until the last 20 on down. More details on late hopping here on Jamil's site.

Then there are other beers that are boiled for 90 but hops are added from 60 on down.

Then there are beers I've made (like this one) where all the of bitterness comes from hop stands where 100% of the hops are added AFTER the boil is completely over. The hops are only steeped, sometimes for hours, at varying temperatures.

There are basically no rules: You can add hops in the mash, first wort hops (before the boil while collecting in the boil kettle), during the boil, after the boil is done, and various stages of fermentation, after fermentation, and while serving.

So it really depends. If you want to provide full flexibility you need to allow for hops at any time. IMHO, you can't limit the brewer, though there's no reason why he has to follow a schedule imposed by the box either.


Some of the beers I've made have 6-7 hops additions.

There are also continually hopped beers (a la Dogfish Head) where you add hops continually throughout the boil. These would basically have an infinite number of hop additions.

All of the above is one reason why I never tried to do any sort of programming or alarming based on additions ... there are too many options available!

Kal

While all of that is true, if you step back and look at this as not a system that will brew beer for you, rather it is assisted brewing - the controller helps you to brew but doesn't do it for you. For the hop additions it is just reminding you when to through your next lot of hops in.
All of what you talk about could easily be covered by having a set number of hop additions that are configurable (and you did mention that).
I would say 10 would be plenty - just make sure that you can change the boil length and the hop timing.
100% hop stand beer - the brewer knows to add the hops after the boil is complete.
DFH stytle cont. hopped beer - again the brewer knows to continously add a little bit of hops throughout the boil.

 

[kal]

While all of that is true, if you step back and look at this as not a system that will brew beer for you, rather it is assisted brewing - the controller helps you to brew but doesn't do it for you. For the hop additions it is just reminding you when to through your next lot of hops in.
All of what you talk about could easily be covered by having a set number of hop additions that are configurable (and you did mention that).
I would say 10 would be plenty - just make sure that you can change the boil length and the hop timing.
100% hop stand beer - the brewer knows to add the hops after the boil is complete.
DFH stytle cont. hopped beer - again the brewer knows to continously add a little bit of hops throughout the boil.

Agree 100%. Something that allows you to choose from FWH, to any time during the boil to "+" times after the boil is really all that is needed. What I didn't like is the idea that everyone always adds hops at the beginning of the boil as that's not true at all. Simply allow users to configure a string of number or even letters (like FWH) to denote when their hops get added, up to 10 or so and they'd be set.

Kal

 

[mattd2]

Agree 100%. Something that allows you to choose from FWH, to any time during the boil to "+" times after the boil is really all that is needed. What I didn't like is the idea that everyone always adds hops at the beginning of the boil as that's not true at all. Simply allow users to configure a string of number or even letters (like FWH) to denote when their hops get added, up to 10 or so and they'd be set.

Kal

Damn forgot about FWHing!
Dealing with the 110 differnt ways 100 brewers brew is the biggest hurdle for a controller. With the likes of yours most of that is done by the simplesity - I can set this PID and that timer and know what to do - and then before/after the boil I do this/that. When the brewer has to ignore an instruction because they know it doesn't apply to them that is when it becomes a hassle.
As I have said before my aim is to build a controller similar to electricbiab.com's and am constantly coming up with ideas of what would be a cool feature - but most of the time it ends up that it would be a nuisence for +50% of my brewing that doesn't need that feature.
So for now at least I am looking to build a controller that basically will emulate yours Kal on a single LCD screen... wish me luck as I am stumbling at the first hurdle of user inputs for set_values (OK I might be over it... maybe)
To get back on topic I would suggest that you have 10 hop additions
FWH - do not enter any time (controller defaults this as add hops to the BK when lautering)
XXX-000 - boil additions (will alarm at T = boil time - hopping time)
-XXX - Whirlpool additions (will alarm at T = boil time - hopping addition //double negative adds additional time)

Don't know if it was clear in the above but I suggest you keep with the standard homebrewing terms that 60 min hops are boiled for 60 mins not added after 60 minutes.

 

[sennister]

While all of that is true, if you step back and look at this as not a system that will brew beer for you, rather it is assisted brewing - the controller helps you to brew but doesn't do it for you. For the hop additions it is just reminding you when to through your next lot of hops in.
All of what you talk about could easily be covered by having a set number of hop additions that are configurable (and you did mention that).
I would say 10 would be plenty - just make sure that you can change the boil length and the hop timing.
100% hop stand beer - the brewer knows to add the hops after the boil is complete.
DFH stytle cont. hopped beer - again the brewer knows to continously add a little bit of hops throughout the boil.

I agree. If it is set up to always add hops when you reach boil, who is to say that you didn't just add some "Air" hops at initial boil and go on about your plan for later additions.

 

[huntb]

I agree. If it is set up to always add hops when you reach boil, who is to say that you didn't just add some "Air" hops at initial boil and go on about your plan for later additions.

The oh so delicious air hops. Perfect for bittering, flavoring and aroma! Although, I tend to mix them with several ounces of other varieties to really bring out their uniqueness

 

[mattd2]

The oh so delicious air hops. Perfect for bittering, flavoring and aroma! Although, I tend to mix them with several ounces of other varieties to really bring out their uniqueness

I hear that is the goto variety for BMC... had to be done
But more importantly I wasn't really advocating to leave the initial boil hops as is but make all the hop additions variable timed from the end of the boil - that way you don't need to remember to forget a specific step

 

[trboyden]

Yes, I would say 10 hop additions just to be on the generous/safe side. Also yes countdown from 90/60 minutes to coincide with popular brew software like BeerSmith. 60 = start of boil, 15 = 15 minutes from end of boil, 0 minutes = end of boil. Looking forward to testing out the unit this weekend. Last weekend got squashed because UPS sucks and sent the package through Chelmsford, MA rather than direct to Warwick, RI. Added an extra day to the ship time, otherwise I would of had it last Friday.

 

[trboyden]

@flyingpole

What is the best way to extend the length of or substitute the temperature probe? The included cord is way too short for my setup, you have to practically be on top of the brew pot with the controller with the included length of cord.

 

[drewmedic23]

I pulled the trigger today on the 15gal kit. Pretty excited to get out started up

 

[241]

This sounds interesting. I'm intrigued. Not a bad price either!

 

[Just-a-sip]

I pulled the trigger today on the 15gal kit. Pretty excited to get out started up

make sure you report back

 

[trboyden]

I will be doing a Scotch Ale Saturday morning with the controller. I was delayed because I needed to get a thermowell, GFCI inline protection, some other electrical goodies, and some other BIAB stuff to set my system up safely. All leak tested and ready to go now. I did a test boil with the separate 5500 watt element and I got 10 gallons of water to a boil in 20 minutes. Pretty psyched to give the system a real go. Already saving a lot of space with the one pot setup, in the 10 x 10 room in my basement that I have been limited to. The below image was from a temporary setup I did just to test the system out. I have added a stainless steel prep table, the thermowell for the temperature probe, and an installed outlet for the 220v 30a service with an inline GFCI protection device. The second image is a wider shot of the (yet to be fully finished) room.

 

[drewmedic23]

So the whole system came yesterday and I finally got a chance to start playing with everything.
It all looks well put together and it looks like the design is pretty well thought out.
Things I see could end up being a problem are the thermo probe is pretty short and may not respond to temp changes quickly.....however, I don't know that I would have done it differently given how everything is setup. I would have liked to see a longer probe cord. Its only about 3 feet long. However, he did provide plenty of 240v 10/2 service wire.
For the controller:
The touch screen is a nice interface and works pretty well...you don't have to press hard at all to get a response. Its pretty simple. Also, the usb wire to go from controller to computer is too short but I had an extra one sitting around and I'm good now. The included cord was about two feet long...personally, Id like my laptop a little farther away from 10 gallons of boiling wort
The program is very easy to use once you play around with it for a few mins...you can change all of the values by clicking on the current ones and then either run the program from your laptop or shoot the parameters to the controller.
So far so good! Once I get this thing pumping out some brew, Ill post again

 

[trboyden]

Yep, that was pretty much my feedback too. Longer thermocouple wire, longer power cord between the controller and the brew pot, and a bonus would be network access to control it remotely. But other than, really well done!

I found the probe in a weld-less thermowell to be accurate within a couple degrees of a separate dial thermometer. So close enough for me to be able to adjust the set points and be right on.

 

[trboyden]

OK Guys,

Finished my first brew with the picoBrew eBIAB system. I did a Scotch Ale with an OG of 1.075. To be honest, there isn't much to the process that is different from a normal AG session, other than you don't have to babysit the process. This was my first time doing BIAB, so I probably encountered some newbie issues with that process, that have nothing to do with the picoBrew.

One issue I had was the brew pots I own (Thunder Group Alu 15 gallon) have slightly wider versus vertical proportions. So it was difficult to clamp the bag to the top of the pot and 5 gallons of water is only a little ways over the element, so there is no good way to keep the bag off of the element (my original idea was going to be in a strainer, but I would need 10 gallons of water just to cover the grains). The bag survived other than the slight tear that happened when I went to pull it out. It got caught on the element. The solution to this is probably to replicate the complete picoBrew system's recirculating wort feature. I need to think about that one some more.

I did run into one software/hardware issue. When it went to the boil step, the element didn't kick on, even though the software and console reported it at full power. I had to reset the system and work through the menus on the console to get back to the boil step. It would be nice if you could just select the current step from a drop-down menu in the desktop application.

My last issue was I still don't have a good way to get the wort cooled quickly and without a mess. I'm in RI, so in another month the weather will take care of that issue for me, but even in November, the tap water is at 60 - 70 degrees so the immersion chiller just isn't cutting it. I tried to pump the wort through the chiller this time with it in a bucket of water with some ice, but it still took a good hour or so to cool it, and it just made a mess when it came time to disconnect the lines. I can get down to 90 - 100 degrees pretty quick, but that last 20 is just a PITA. Is a plate chiller going to make that much of a difference? Or do I need to just find some really cold water and/or a lot of ice?

At any rate, the wort's in the fermenter, room is at 70, and the yeasties are going like crazy. So we'll see what we got in a couple weeks!



https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1466124_324832127658496_1667380203_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/999610_324832114325164_268977459_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152036209578834&l=4845095172330593975

 

[cliffhanger1821]

What was your efficiency? Other than the software hiccup, were the any other things you wish you could change about the controller? Thinking about pulling the trigger on one soon

 

[trboyden]

I hit my gravity, so I would say it was dead on 72% which was what Beersmith estimated it to be. Not the controller. It's does what it is supposed to, but my thoughts now are it is best as a complete system (full recirculation, etc...) which it was intended as. I think if all you want is controlling of SSRs and monitoring of temperatures, the BCS 460 maybe more up your alley. But this is definitely more turnkey.

 

[cliffhanger1821]

I already use recirculating ebiab, just with a generic pwm control. I wanted something just like this, but with my limited programming skills and electrical know-how, there is no way I could build it for this price and get it to actually work.

 

[sennister]

You could make a second immersion chiller to run the tap water through ice, then into the second chiller which is in the wort and discharge to the sink or down the driveway.

We are on a deep private well so our water is fairly cold year round but like you I can get it to 90 really fast but much lower than that takes a bit.

 

[OatStraw]

Is anyone using this on multiple vessels? I would use it to heat up my HLT and then control the pump for strike and sparge water. I don't need to recirculate since my cooler tun keeps temp. I would then switch plug into the BK for boil. Would this system be over kill and would it work? Pricing out building something simple for myself to do the above process, this looks cheaper.

 

[trboyden]

@sennister

Thanks. Yes, that's what I'll essentially do once I have some free ice courtesy of mother nature. In the warmer months I'll need to invest in some sort of chiller system. Not sure what is available for the homebrewer market though.

 

[trboyden]

@OatStraw

It's possible with the manual mode, but it's designed to do the BIAB in one pot process. It only has one temperature sensor input, so you could only control one heating/temperature monitoring process at a time. So it couldn't heat sparge water and monitor mash temperature at the same time.

 

[OatStraw]

I wouldn't use it to monitor mash temperature. My mash holds heat perfectly for 1hr. I would need to swith the probe to the BK though.

Can I swap the temp probe with one of these? http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=261

That way I could have one in my HLT and another in the BK and switch probes when I switch elements.