Has anyone bought a controller from electricbiab.com

[flyingpole]

The sensor that my controller uses is not an RTD type, although as I understand it the weld less adapter can facilitate any .25" diameter sensor.

 

[jeffmeh]

I guess the question is, will the software will accurately read temperature with an RTD probe?

 

[flyingpole]

Sorry, misunderstood your question. The controller only works with the supplied temperature sensor. The sensor is a digital sensor, not analog.

 

[Bobby_M]

The next release of firmware for the controller will allow multiple hops addition alarms/prompts.

This is the weldless fitting I'm evaluating. Puts the sensor in direct contact with the water/wort, but extends only slightly into the kettle.

https://www.brewershardware.com/WLFM14C14.html

Please contact me via the contact us page on my web site to discuss details.

That one is a work of art as far as machining goes but as a vendor, I don't mind mildly spamming this thread with a cheaper option. I get $18 for the fitting shown at the 3:24 mark in this video and it's every bit as leakfree.

[ame]http://youtu.be/lXRj9CVwIfY?t=3m24s[/ame]

Carry on.

 

[flyingpole]

Can you send me a link, I'd like to buy one and evaluate.

 

[flyingpole]

Also, will that work with a 1/4" diameter sensor? I found the web site and it appears it is for a thin sensor like those thermistor types that come with kitchen thermometers.

Thanks in advance.

 

[flyingpole]

Also, will that work with a 1/4" diameter sensor? I found the web site and it appears it is for a thin sensor like those thermistor types that come with kitchen thermometers.

Thanks in advance.

 

[huntb]

That one is a work of art as far as machining goes but as a vendor, I don't mind mildly spamming this thread with a cheaper option. I get $18 for the fitting shown at the 3:24 mark in this video and it's every bit as leakfree.

http://youtu.be/lXRj9CVwIfY?t=3m24s

Carry on.

Well Bobby, you may have just sold me with your 1/2 NPT to probe so I can fit the temp sensor in a T on my recirc.

 

[huntb]

@flyingpole is the introductory price just for the 15 gallon system or are all the prices going to go up after the 27th? I am just looking at buying the controller but need to save up some money first

 

[Bobby_M]

Yes, the probe compression fittings all work with UP to 1/4" OD probes. http://brewhardware.com/thermometers-71/153-probecompression2

There are four different versions... mind the descriptions to select the correct ones.

 

[flyingpole]

Just did a reorder for the next run (we build 20 controllers per run) and our component costs went up on some items. Final tally not in yet, but I expect about a 5% increase on the controller.

 

[dkennedy]

To echo swem's comment, I suspect that there is a market here for the DIYer who may not feel like building a control box...I'm handy but my brain starts to frost over when trying to figure out some aspects of controllers.
Since my ebuild is moving at the pace of geologic time, the pico controller is definitely in the running.

 

[alien]

Since my ebuild is moving at the pace of geologic time

But when it's finished, it will "rock"... :rockin:

 

[drewmedic23]

Subscribed!! I'm really interested in seeing how this comes out. I will probably purchase one as soon as I get a few extra $$. I would really like to see multiple hop additions and maybe an option for the compression adapter rather than the thermowell. Nice job on the product!

 

[trboyden]

Just ordered mine this week because of this thread. I have been looking at various pre-built controllers and based on features and price, this is a really good deal. I've been doing the traditional all grain method, but it is a lot of cleanup and is time consuming. This process mimics how the Speidel Braumeister works, which would be the way I would totally go if I went commercial.

 

[swem]

All my fancy new toys showed up a few days ago! I am however, delaying their use as I am in the middle of finishing my basement, and I'm not going to half-ass it, the place where the brewery will be is also getting its own 30 amp gfci outlet, range hood, and sink. Should be brewing in a month or so. I will most certainly post a review.

 

[kal]

But you could say that about any prebuilt (or even kitset) "thing". How much stuff is in one of Kal's kits?

About $1400USD for the 30A kit if you were to buy all the parts yourself. I paid over $2000USD myself but because of the stupid shipping costs to get things to Canada and that was before people were charging an arm and a leg for some of the parts (before they got popular).

Kal

 

[kal]

Relative to profit, I'm working for less than half of minimum wage if I account for all my time. Time to purchase, receive, store, fabricate, assemble, fully test and package. Also there are consumables such as tooling, solder, potting compound, packing materials, etc.

Don't forget support as well. That wasn't listed. ... and defective parts, replacements, marketing, sales, advertising, etc. The list is of costs is massive.

It's not uncommon for a BOM (bill of materials) cost for a consumer electronic device to be only 20-30% of the end cost to the consumer.

It's always easy to others to look at the sum of parts and think something is overpriced when they consider only the materials that are used in the final product but that's never all that is involved. Not by a long shot.

Kal

 

[cliffhanger1821]

I never thought when I posted your link on the other thread that it would generate this kind of interest, but it sure is great! This is the only thing I'm missing to get my new eBIAB system up and running, can't wait to order one when I have enough money saved. This controller is the only one I've been eyeing for months now, it just really fills in all the holes with other controllers, like with being able to attach to your PC. Can you save individual brew sessions with this? And thanks to swem for buying one and starting this thread, hope you enjoy your new system!

 

[Spintab]

Being the provider of the system, I feel compelled to respond, without making it a commercial for my product.

The system includes shipping, which is no small cost now days. There is inbound shipping on every component and outbound shipping of the complete system. Outbound shipping approaches $50 for some locations. I'd like to see the bill of materials and suppliers for the $400 cost estimate. I'd gladly purchase that option! Even buying in bulk I can't get near that. Looking forward to seeing that.

Relative to profit, I'm working for less than half of minimum wage if I account for all my time. Time to purchase, receive, store, fabricate, assemble, fully test and package. Also there are consumables such as tooling, solder, potting compound, packing materials, etc.

Much time was spent evaluating materials and designing. Not to mention the time spent developing and perfecting the firmware and software. The enclosure is laser cut specifically for this controller. Designing that took days to perfect.

Also, taxes! Profit is taxed, and we all know what a cut that takes out of the bottom line.

More power to those that want to build it themselves. Homebrewers are by design do-it-yourselfers. This system is being provided to allow some to eliminate all the time and mistakes made when building your own.

Hope this didn't cross a line into advertising, it is more of a justification response.

Cheers.

Man I apologize, I'm a dick. What you're providing is great and the price isn't bad. I think you're tapping a starving market of home brewers who want better temp control but aren't into wiring 220v and programming. I'm a programmer by day and I've worked a lot with microcontrollers for brewing and other applications. I know what it takes to develop everything. I get it and I applaud the effort.

 

[Just-a-sip]

The only question I would have is there a way (or perhaps in your update) to put the controler in full manual mode for the boil. I saw there was an auto and manual as far as the process steps, and there is a way to adjust the boiling temp once reached... but. Is there a way to just add or remove power like a PID in manual mode. Curently I use a potentiometer system and as im about to build or purchase a better system, I would be very interested in this contoler If this feature was available. HECK YOU TELL ME ITS DOABLE AND I BUY TODAY.

 

[trboyden]

Here is the relevant section from the manual (which is excellent BTW, bravo!):

"Heater Power
This prompt has multiple functions depicted by a varying length RED BAR when the heater is
enabled or by the word “OFF” when it is disabled. In general, when the heater is enabled, the length
of the bar indicates the power level of the heater output. Temperature is maintained with this system by
using a PID algorithm, that basically adjusts the amount of time the heater is on or off. The controller
can only provide full power (ON) or no power (OFF) to the heater element. By turning the heater on
for 1 second at 100% power and off for 1 second, we attain a 50% analog power equivalent using
digital controls. Any % power can be attained in this manner, and that is how this controller is able to
control temperature so accurately. A red bar that is the full length of the status window as shown in the
picture above represents 100% power. Shorter red bars indicate reduced power levels."

So based on how the controller works, the answer to your question would be no, because the controller can only turn on and turn off the heat stick at 100% power, so it can't work like a potentiometer which could control a heat stick from anywhere between 0% to 100% power. I am curious to see how it works during the boil process. How does it know when there is a rolling boil and to back off when it starts to boil over? My guess is the boil step is based on you using a recirculation technique with the wort, which in theory, should avoid boil over because you are constantly moving the wort, thus you can run the heat stick at full power. I don't plan to do that currently, so I may have to enter into manual mode at that point during the process and toggle the heat on an off as needed. But that's just my process.

He meant this to be a complete system, so if you only use parts of it, you will have to figure out some stuff to make it work for you.

Edit:

Having re-read these lines, it might work for you though:

"By turning the heater on
for 1 second at 100% power and off for 1 second, we attain a 50% analog power equivalent using
digital controls. Any % power can be attained in this manner, and that is how this controller is able to
control temperature so accurately. A red bar that is the full length of the status window as shown in the
picture above represents 100% power. Shorter red bars indicate reduced power levels."

Still not the same as a potentiometer, but as long as the heat stick responds to quick changes in power, it could work in a manual mode. I'd be worried about long term wear on the controller/SSR (assuming it has one) with a rapid on/off cycle of 30 AMPS.

 

[jeffmeh]

Here is the relevant section from the manual (which is excellent BTW, bravo!):

"Heater Power
This prompt has multiple functions depicted by a varying length RED BAR when the heater is
enabled or by the word “OFF” when it is disabled. In general, when the heater is enabled, the length
of the bar indicates the power level of the heater output. Temperature is maintained with this system by
using a PID algorithm, that basically adjusts the amount of time the heater is on or off. The controller
can only provide full power (ON) or no power (OFF) to the heater element. By turning the heater on
for 1 second at 100% power and off for 1 second, we attain a 50% analog power equivalent using
digital controls. Any % power can be attained in this manner, and that is how this controller is able to
control temperature so accurately. A red bar that is the full length of the status window as shown in the
picture above represents 100% power. Shorter red bars indicate reduced power levels."

So based on how the controller works, the answer to your question would be no, because the controller can only turn on and turn off the heat stick at 100% power, so it can't work like a potentiometer which could control a heat stick from anywhere between 0% to 100% power. I am curious to see how it works during the boil process. How does it know when there is a rolling boil and to back off when it starts to boil over? My guess is the boil step is based on you using a recirculation technique with the wort, which in theory, should avoid boil over because you are constantly moving the wort, thus you can run the heat stick at full power. I don't plan to do that currently, so I may have to enter into manual mode at that point during the process and toggle the heat on an off as needed. But that's just my process.

He meant this to be a complete system, so if you only use parts of it, you will have to figure out some stuff to make it work for you.

Edit:

Having re-read these lines, it might work for you though:

"By turning the heater on
for 1 second at 100% power and off for 1 second, we attain a 50% analog power equivalent using
digital controls. Any % power can be attained in this manner, and that is how this controller is able to
control temperature so accurately. A red bar that is the full length of the status window as shown in the
picture above represents 100% power. Shorter red bars indicate reduced power levels."

Still not the same as a potentiometer, but as long as the heat stick responds to quick changes in power, it could work in a manual mode. I'd be worried about long term wear on the controller/SSR (assuming it has one) with a rapid on/off cycle of 30 AMPS.

The cycling should not be a problem for the SSR, as that is what they are designed to do. Every PID/SSR system works this way. An SSVR that can regulate voltage is a different animal.

The question for the designer is whether or not he has programmed the control to include a feature where the user can manually set a percentage for the controller to maintain. From the section of the manual you quoted, we know that he has programmed the controller to simulate a PID in automatic mode, but not whether he has included a manual mode.

 

[KPSquared]

Everything described above is just Pulse Width Modulation, no?

I thought that's how you HAD to control a heating element. The only way to get 50% power is to cycle it on and off at a specific rate. You can't just dial the power back with a potentiometer. I was under the impression an element like that was all or nothing.

Hence the reason why so many people have built stand alone PWM controllers to slow the boil on their electric setups.

 

[trboyden]

I plead ignorance. Doing more research on the SSRs I now realize they are electronic versus mechanical devices. So yes wear is not a factor for them. As far as heating element control, I am not sure now. There are so many conflicting articles out there (part of the reason why I bought this system) that I don't know. It may very well be PWM. But I honestly don't know the functional differences between SimmerSwitches, how the infinite power dial in High Gravity's EBC II, or other controllers work.

 

[trboyden]

At any rate, I'll let you all know this weekend when I try it out!

 

[passedpawn]

Everything described above is just Pulse Width Modulation, no?

I thought that's how you HAD to control a heating element. The only way to get 50% power is to cycle it on and off at a specific rate. You can't just dial the power back with a potentiometer. I was under the impression an element like that was all or nothing.

Hence the reason why so many people have built stand alone PWM controllers to slow the boil on their electric setups.

The element is quite happy running at half-power - it's just a resistor. The problem is it is difficult and costly to drive them that way. A potentiometer could do it but you't need one that could handle a LOT of power and it would be very very large. An autotransformer like a variac is the best way, but they can be expensive too. PWM is the only way that makes sense.

 

[Just-a-sip]

your i read the manual and that was what i got as well.
and i understand that this system was supposed to a turn key out of the box set up and that if my applications require a different approach then i shouldn't not go this rout

i guess i was just hoping that with this being so young in the development stage and the manufacturer obviously taking into consideration ideas for the next upgrade that perhaps if there were enough people wanting a manual control he could look into this as well..

i know almost everyone doing electric uses a pid controller and with that they more times then not go into manual control for the boil as others use a potentiometer control.

 

[drewmedic23]

Look at the part of the manual that explains how he made his own algorithm....if the boil temp is programmed at 212, then wouldn't the controller automatically put the element on low power as it approaches 212? And since it will never actually reach 212, it should modulate the boil pretty well....right? I'd quote the part but I'm on my phone

 

[jeffmeh]

Look at the part of the manual that explains how he made his own algorithm....if the boil temp is programmed at 212, then wouldn't the controller automatically put the element on low power as it approaches 212? And since it will never actually reach 212, it should modulate the boil pretty well....right? I'd quote the part but I'm on my phone

In general, setting a PID algorithm to maintain 212F at sea level will oscillate between no boil and vigorous boil. People use PWMs or PIDs with manual mode to set a percentage to maintain the level of "vigor" as desired.