Has anyone actually brewed a hopless beer? and without bittering of any sort?

[beowulf]

Hello folks....I'd like to take this opportunity to set a few things straight, as it seems like throughout the course of this thread some assumptions may have been fabricated....

She doesn't like overly bitter or hoppy beer, and in her opinion most beers are bitter and/or hoppy. There are some that she enjoys, if just a drink or two. She does enjoy a lambic sometimes as well as beers like Sahti from Nøgne Ø and some coffee or chocolate-laced stouts (thank you, Avery Tap Room). This thread was constructed primarily to see if others had experience with brewing without any bitterness, hops or otherwise. Furthermore, I am the last one person to make a blanket statement about anyone "disliking all beer" and I'm certain that I did not say this. I'm merely seeking out some options regarding unhopped beer.

I do appreciate all of the helpful feedback as a lot of knowledge has been passed on through this thread. I've definitely learned quite a bit! I just don't want anyone to get the wrong idea, assuming that I've never introduced her to malty alternatives such as wee heavies, brown ales, dopplebocks and the like. It could be that it's not always bitterness that turns her off, but most of the time that's the case.

Bob - thanks for the info and the link to the Medieval Ale thread. Looks like it has a good recipe to try!

As I write this, she is informing me that it is specifically the hop flavor and bitterness that she does not care for. I think for some beers, the hoppiness may be detectable even if the IBUs are low. I think that's why she likes stouts as the malty and roasty flavors almost completely block out the hops. Sometimes it's a hit or miss but I guess part of the fun is that it's a challenge

 

[Homebrewtastic]

I wonder if you might be able to find a specific hop profile she may enjoy. My SWMBO really doesn't care for noble hop profiles (especially willamette) but she loves the more citrusy/grapefruity flavors in amarillo and cascade.

I brewed a pale SMaSH with Amarillo and Belgian Pils that was really low on IBUs thanks to tons of late hop additions. She loved it.

Just a thought.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

"Has anyone actually brewed a hopless beer?"

Yes, it's called Coors.

O'Doyle Rules

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Hey Beowulf I had another thought.

Like others have mentioned beers without hops might be too sweet. So instead of bitterness to balance the sweet you might try sour. I think you mentioned she likes lindemanns or some such?

While lambic brewing is time consuming there is an alternative, try doing a sour mash. I recently brewed a variation of my peach saison but opted to sour it partially. It was my first time doing a sour mash so I only soured it a little. I took a couple quarts of water and added a small amount of LME (about 1/2 lb) and heated it to about 120 degrees. Then I took 1lb. of raw grain (whatever you use for base grain, I use belgian pils) and added to that in a large bucket.

I popped on a lid then let it set outside for a couple of days in the hot sun. It soured nicely. Then I added this sweet/sour mixture to my mash and then continued on as usual (mash, sparge, boil etc....) .

This beer is really lowly hopped (just a touch of willamette) but the sour balanced everything out. I brewed it for a friends wedding and everyone (much to my surprise) loved it.

After 3 weeks in the bottle it smelled like vomit. However after about 3 months for the wedding the smell got downgraded to "feet" (as most of the wedding congregation told me). But the taste was great.

My point is that the lacto smell (vomit/feet) seems to be mellowing with age. I saved a few bottles and have no plans to open one for at least another month.

Anywho, just a thought.

 

[Hannable1975]

Budweiser.

... beat me to it ....

 

[Mermaid]

I suspect that beowulf's lady is a "super taster" - it's a genetic thing where they taste what is considered "normal" levels of bitterness - off the charts. Sometimes supertasters don't like cruciferous veggies like broccoli and brussels sprouts because they taste extra bitter and unpleasant.

I think my boyfriend is probably a supertaster, he picked out the coriander in my first batch, said the beer tasted like soap (I pegged it as astrigency caused by uncontrolled fermentation temps).

Anyway, you could try "bittering" with tea as well (a gruit), while technically it's not a "beer" it might have a nice flavor.

Other flavoring ideas to consider that are not hops, would be a wheat beer or saisson style brewed with rose hips and hibiscus. It would probably give a slightly sour flavor, give it a nice nose, and turn the brew a lovely shade of pink.

Or to that end, as someone else mentioned, a braggot with some nice herbaly tea (rose hips, hibiscus, chamomile, jasmine, sweet orange peel, could all lend some nice flavors) used to give it extra flavor and aroma.

I suppose that would make it a sort of misfit gruit, but might be something even I would attempt at some point.

My super taster boyfriend likes Rogue's "Dead Guy" ale which is pretty darn hoppy, and really liked the clone I made because its extra malty (probably because it's still a bit green). I think you may be on to something with malty, rich brews maybe appealing to her because the sweetness shines through the edge of the hops.

Good luck

 

[ericd]

It's a different kind of sweetness (maltose vs sucrose) but I say go for it dude. I'd make a small hopless beer 4-5% then add sugar and champagne yeast to dry it out.

 

[beowulf]

Ideas abound! Thanks to all for your insight and recommendations. I have since added gruit, mead, braggot, medieval unhopped ale and several other options to my list of things to experiment with.

Mermaid - I think you hit the nail on the head with your "supertaster" moniker....I'll need to explore this further. Thanks for offering your ideas!

Homebrewtastic - The sour factor sounds like a winner. At a visit to Avery earlier this year, we sampled some Depuceleuse (a "barrel-aged wild ale")....OMG yum! Wife loved it too. I think the sourness overpowered the hops and bitterness, and like lambics made the experience vastly different than non-sour beer. On my list! I still have 3 bottles of this rare gem...hoarding them for a special occasion.

I'm sorry, but for those of you who provided such valuable and insightful recommendations such as "Budweiser" or "Coors", I'll reserve the right to withhold my appreciation...how utterly imaginative and original...

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Here's the soured saison I did. This is for a 7.5 gallon batch. 2.5 gallons of it is actually going with some brett, pecan wood and cherries right now. Also the hops in this are minimal. 1 oz. of willamette that only happens for 10 minutes. You don't miss the hops at all in this beer. The peach puree in here is from peaches from my own peach tree, not canned peaches. You could use canned peaches but I would cut it down a shade because they're typically much sweeter. My puree consisted of a 2:1 unripe: ripe ratio. I've found the tarter the peaches are the more flavor they leave behind.

9 lbs. belgian pils
2 lbs. vienna malt
1 lb. torrified wheat
8 oz. 40L
1 oz. willamette - 10 min
6.8lbs. peach puree
5 lbs. underipe black plums -14 days secondary

1 lb. light LME

24 - 48 hours before brewday put the LME in some water (1/2 gal) and bring up to 120 - 130 degrees. Pour into a bucket and add 1lb. of grain. Put it somewhere to keep warm. I put it outside because it was over 100 degrees out, but a thermal blanket will work well too. Once this smells like satan's anus it's ready.

Mash grains with sour mix at 151 for 75 minutes in 4.5 gallons water. Sparge etc... as normal. Have the peach puree mostly frozen as it helps with chilling the wort.

Once your boil is done toss in the peach puree and chill. I pitched onto a cake of WLP575 (abbey) and added some Wyeast 3711 (french saison).

Ferment at 74 degrees for first day. Ramp up 3 degrees each day for 7 days until you hit 95 (I know I know that's high but you get some awesome yeasty funk).

Cut the plums into small enough pieces to fit in a carboy and freeze. Let them thaw out slowly in the fridge (the freezing helps kill some bacteria and reduces risk of infection) and add to the beer. Secondary on the plums for two weeks.

Rack off the plums and place in another vessel. Take a gravity reading here, let ferment a while longer (3 days) and check again. It's really hard to tell how much sugar you've added by adding the plums, and even once you've racked off you may still have some residual sugars floating about. So it's not a bad idea to practice extra caution.

Bottle as normal. Age for at least 3 months. What you end up with is a fairly dry beer with soft fruitiness and a sourness that's quite refreshing... and that smells a bit like feet... or maybe good cheese.

I've found that as this thing ages the more fruit comes out and the feet like smell dies down. It's definitely one of my favorite brews.

 

[STEVENJAN]

Well I tried it today.
I made a non-hopped beer
1# of Bavarian wheat Dme
3/4 # of clover honey
O.G. 1.032

Total of 2 gallons in a Mr. Beer Fermentor.
I should know in about three weeks how it tastes.

With the honey and wheat, who knows, it might already have a name and someone will get on here and say its not beer, its something else.

Maybe its a Wheat/Honey wine.

Whatever it is, I tried it.

I'll be back in a couple of weeks when I bottle it.
I'll taste it when I take the F.G. If its too sweet i'll add some hops to it.

 

[beowulf]

Thanks for sharing, STEVENJAN! I may be brewing a 3/4 hopped, 1/4 hopless (2 separate batches after the mash) breakfast stout this weekend. I need something to use up a yeastcake after I bottle my brown ale.

 

[TheFlatline]

Roll over to the mead portion of the forum and look around there. A sweet mead would probably be right up her alley, and it's stupid easy for you to make. Take honey, add water, throw in yeast (and some yeast nutrient). Let gurgle.

 

[rsquared]

With the honey and wheat, who knows, it might already have a name and someone will get on here and say its not beer, its something else.

Maybe its a Wheat/Honey wine.

Guess I'll be that someone... What you've got there is a braggot.

http://mead.bravehost.com/braggot.html

Braggot is a mead made with malt and honey, the malt makes it somewhat similar to beer or ale. To be called braggot not less than half of the fermantable sugars should come from honey, thus putting it in the mead category. This seems to be a style that not many mead makers make. However alot of beer brewers make a similar brew that probably more appropriately would be called honey beer or honey ale because they may use a lesser amount of honey and include hops. There are some (Fred Hardy comes too mind) that would argue that a true braggot should not contain hops.

I even believe your honey should be nearly 100% fermentable, with the malt probably closer to 75%, so your ratios look to give you pretty much a 50/50 mix of fermentables from honey and malt.

 

[STEVENJAN]

Well, I bottled the non-hopped Bavarian Wheat Honey beer today O.G. 1.032
F.G. 1.002 = 3.93 ABV

I tasted it after I took the F.G.(waste not, want not)
It is very good. Nice flavor and not too sweet.
It isn't bitter by any means but it has a nice light taste.
I was going to bottle it without primer but I decided to prime it with a little more honey. I think it will be worth drinking.
Someone that loves I.P.A. might not care for it but I think we will.

 

[shamrockdoc]

here is a Sahti brew done by brewing TV I really want to do a test batch of this
[ame]http://vimeo.com/17090829[/ame]

 

[avidlad]

I have made hopless brews from malt extract. They are tangy, not sweet. (Don't the yeast consume the sugar anyway?) They remind me of good cider. Crisp and refreshing!