Hard wiring rather than all these plugs?

[PleasantValleyHops]

On that note, I can pretty much guarantee that a hard wired panel would be considered a "sub-panel" in my municipality, which would require permits.

In that case!! What!! In most counties in the great usa u cant just add a spa panel either. So weather its hard wired direct to ur cp or not. Just bc u throw a plug in there doesnt make it a legal connection. And the insurance issue only comes up if ur control panel caused the fire or was started by an electrical issue in that area of ur panel. Which if u have pwr going to it when ur not around then part of that is just plan stupidity anyways. Turn the breaker off after ur brew day. And i cant stress enough to people that when u say ur nec compliant. Thats like saying. "i only needed a D to pass a test and thats what i got". The nec is a BARE MIN CODE, its there so everything isnt completely ghetto rig. People get so caught up in "The Code". How bout if u dont know what ur doing hire someone that does so u dont F something up and hurt or kill urself or worse others! Man i need a beer now!!!
Sorry for going on a rant but dumb people and stuff bother me

 

[Bernie Brewer]

You must provide a disconnecting means. A cord-and-plug connection provides that. If you hardwire, you must install a disconnect.

 

[pickles]

My son flipped the BK switch to manual ON and fried my element in a matter of seconds. I only have a float switch on the HLT, so until I install another float switch I'm glad I'm able to unplug my BK to prevent Porter from flipping the switch and frying the element again.

 

[duckdogs]

My son flipped the BK switch to manual ON and fried my element in a matter of seconds. I only have a float switch on the HLT, so until I install another float switch I'm glad I'm able to unplug my BK to prevent Porterfrom flipping the switch and frying the element again.

Great...another thing to add to the build..
1. lights to show power at element
2. Float switches HLT & BK

Alright what are you using for a float switch?

thanks for the input

 

[pickles]

This http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=260986951052&index=12&nav=SEARCH&nid=55643211872

It's wired so that it completes a circuit on the low voltage side of SSRs on both hot legs of my element.

 

[duckdogs]

This http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=260986951052&index=12&nav=SEARCH&nid=55643211872

It's wired so that it completes a circuit on the low voltage side of SSRs on both hot legs of my element.

Great thank you, seems like an easy enough add on that without could ruin a brew day, with one semi drunk flip of the wrong switch....wait drinking, brewing...those don't go together at all

 

[tjpfeister]

I just want to be clear. When I refer to "hardwiring," I mean the electronics on the rig. NOT the rig to the structure. I think the meaning got lost there for a bit, but it is still a valid point for some to consider.

 

[lschiavo]

My son flipped the BK switch to manual ON and fried my element in a matter of seconds. I only have a float switch on the HLT, so until I install another float switch I'm glad I'm able to unplug my BK to prevent Porter from flipping the switch and frying the element again.

I like the plug/cord on my BK for this reason. It does not get plugged in until wort is over the element so no chance of frying anything.

 

[duckdogs]

I just want to be clear. When I refer to "hardwiring," I mean the electronics on the rig. NOT the rig to the structure. I think the meaning got lost there for a bit, but it is still a valid point for some to consider.

Yes, and maybe I should have been a bit clearer when I started this... I was only refering to the elements & other brewing related items being wired directly into the brewing pannle and not into the residental structure itself.

 

[milldoggy]

In that case, hard wire away. I rarely unhook my stuff. it was handy when I had to replace a pump. Also, I dry fired my ulwd for 30 secs and it is still kicking.

 

[duckdogs]

I dry fired my ulwd for 30 secs and it is still kicking.

I read here or on Kal's sight that the low wat Density elements are a little more forgiving if fired up dry..

 

[kpr121]

I like the plug/cord on my BK for this reason. It does not get plugged in until wort is over the element so no chance of frying anything.

Hmm... this has me thinking that I might put in an additional switch or two to ensure that I dont accidently fire an element, since I really dont plan on unplugging the cords everytime I drain a vessel. Kinda like the 1960's space movies where they would have to flip 20 different switches before they could blast off.

Eh, maybe that just sounds like too much of a pain....

 

[kpr121]

I read here or on Kal's sight that the low wat Density elements are a little more forgiving if fired up dry..

Yeah right on the 5500W Camco element package it says that it is able to be dry fired. For how long, it doesnt say.

 

[milldoggy]

Yeah right on the 5500W Camco element package it says that it is able to be dry fired. For how long, it doesnt say.

It smelled bad and I had to scrub the heck out of it. It was nice and clean afterwards. Like a self cleaning oven.

 

[pickles]

just use the float switches I linked to earlier and you'll be fine.

 

[wrench]

I went with plugs for three reasons.

1. Portability. Right now I'm brewing eBIAB and I can take my small CP and keggle anywhere that has a dryer outlet to brew. I haven't yet, but I can.
2. Upgradability. I built my CP in a mil surplus ammo can as a temporary solution. I've got a pretty SS enclosure sitting in the closet for the day I move up to 3 vessels. Or even just two if I wanted to sparge my BIAB with a second keggle. Doesn't matter. I can just unplug the old and plug in the new.
3. Safety. I don't have a master key switch or disconnect on my current system. It just gets unplugged when not in use. If I'm not brewing for a while, I'll also disconnect the CP from the keggle and put everything away.

 

[mabrungard]

I went with plugs for three reasons.


[3]Safety. I don't have a master key switch or disconnect on my current system. It just gets unplugged when not in use. If I'm not brewing for a while, I'll also disconnect the CP from the keggle and put everything away.

My system is configured this way for the same reason. A visual disconnect is as good as it gets. My CP plugs into the bottom of my GFI panel and is disconnected when not in use. All the other components are portable and I have to be able to move them and store them.

 

[gunmetal]

I guess it depends on what you have to pay for twist locks. A vendor on ebay was selling 30 amp L6 twist locks for around 4 bucks each. Shipping was also cheap. I also found a local surplus store in Ohio that was selling them dirt cheap. My local scrap yard had 30 amp twist locks on SOOW 10/3 cords for so long that they ended up in a 4X4X4 bail! I even have a 50 amp 4 pole twist lock that I plug my brewery in with. I paid $5 for it.

 

[pickles]

I guess it depends on what you have to pay for twist locks. A vendor on ebay was selling 30 amp L6 twist locks for around 4 bucks each. Shipping was also cheap. I also found a local surplus store in Ohio that was selling them dirt cheap. My local scrap yard had 30 amp twist locks on SOOW 10/3 cords for so long that they ended up in a 4X4X4 bail! I even have a 50 amp 4 pole twist lock that I plug my brewery in with. I paid $5 for it.

What are the chances you could find another one of those 50A connectors? I've been searching high and low for the male and female set to work in my brewery. I'm so tired of this stiff cable I'm using and want to switch to SOOW cable badly!

 

[Sparky]

What are the chances you could find another one of those 50A connectors?

Pickles, should be no problem to pick up a 50amp twist-lock in your area. Just go to your local electrical supply house (forget Home Hell or Low'd). They will even be able to get you that SOW cord and cut it the length you want. Maybe Gunmetal can check the NEMA on his M/F ends and get back to you.

The 50amp twist-locks are pretty common. Once you go up from there (60amps +) it is more moolah and takes some hunting.

 

[goingmad]

[OT mode ON]
Sparky I hate you!
[OT mode OFF]

As for the thread subject, I agree 100% with Kellzey

 

[lschiavo]

The 50amp twist-locks are pretty common. Once you go up from there (60amps +) it is more moolah and takes some hunting.

What are you using for 50A twistlocks? It seems they are a step up from the 30A variety. Just wondering if I overlooked something...

 

[kal]

I went locking with everything that hangs out the bottom of my panel for convenience and safety.

Yes, some of these cords require a lot of insertion force to push in/pull out so they may be fine to be non-locking. Maybe. I don't know. The power cord (for example) is stupidly heavy. All my connectors are on the bottom which made me want to go with locking even more. So why'd I put them on the bottom? Again for safety (water runs downhill), how it looks, etc.

Locking is used for safety. Just in case. Like the seatbelt in your car. You just don't know what might happen one day. You may not normally pull on a cord but you just never know. We don't use locking because it's an absolute requirement to make the thing work.

Look at it in the opposite direction: Why not go for locking? The *only* benefit to not using locking is to save money. There are no other benefits. Everything else is a negative. So you need to make that choice yourself. Nobody else can tell you "you should use locking" or that "you don't need to use locking" or anything else for that matter since this is setup you use yourself at home that you built yourself.

Kal

 

[mux]

I went locking with everything that hangs out the bottom of my panel for convenience and safety.

Yes, some of these cords require a lot of insertion force to push in/pull out so they may be fine to be non-locking. Maybe. I don't know. The power cord (for example) is stupidly heavy. All my connectors are on the bottom which made me want to go with locking even more. So why'd I put them on the bottom? Again for safety (water runs downhill), how it looks, etc.

Locking is used for safety. Just in case. Like the seatbelt in your car. You just don't know what might happen one day. You may not normally pull on a cord but you just never know. We don't use locking because it's an absolute requirement to make the thing work.

Look at it in the opposite direction: Why not go for locking? The *only* benefit to not using locking is to save money. There are no other benefits. Everything else is a negative. So you need to make that choice yourself. Nobody else can tell you "you should use locking" or that "you don't need to use locking" or anything else for that matter since this is setup you use yourself at home that you built yourself.

Kal

Well said! Thanks for Providing all your hard work to all of us on your web site.

 

[kpr121]

Well said Kal, and I think that if my design was such that the wires all connected to the bottom of the CP like yours I would choose locking plugs as well.

In my design, all the plugs will be on the side of the control panel, and I have even thought about utilizing some sort of quick latching strain relief to hold the wires in place a little more securely. Doubt that will go in right away, but after a few brews if I see it fit, I will look into it.

Like you said, each person has to justify their design to themselves, and only themselves, since they will be the ones using it. While I would absolutely love to have a system similar to yours, I decided I would rather spend the money on other things (or maybe that was SWMBO’s decision) and keep it simple and cheaper where I could.

 

[NewBrewB]

My reasons for following Kals design to the T was based on the possibility of eventually selling it if I stop brewing...thought about a cheaper enclosure, leaving out the volt/amp meters, hard wiring, etc but in the end, I wanted something clearly recognizable as The Kal Build.

 

[ekjohns]

Locking is used for safety.

Can you explain why locking on the control panel is for safety? My only though is it would be to keep the power cord going from the spa panel from falling off and landing in a puddle of water, which is a very good reason. As far as all the other plugs if they get yanked from the control panel there is no power going to them. I guess if they fall in a puddle and you pick it up to plug it back in that could be bad. However, if they are locking and you trip on the cord going from the panel to the BK then your going to tip the BK all over and possibly on yourself.

(This is not meant to be mean or rude if it came off that way, I just want to be as safe as possible and want to make sure I fully understand all the safety steps)

 

[kal]

Can you explain why locking on the control panel is for safety? My only though is it would be to keep the power cord going from the spa panel from falling off and landing in a puddle of water, which is a very good reason. As far as all the other plugs if they get yanked from the control panel there is no power going to them. I guess if they fall in a puddle and you pick it up to plug it back in that could be bad. However, if they are locking and you trip on the cord going from the panel to the BK then your going to tip the BK all over and possibly on yourself.

(This is not meant to be mean or rude if it came off that way, I just want to be as safe as possible and want to make sure I fully understand all the safety steps)

Worst case scenario: Say a cord comes loose and falls out over time. That itself isn't probably going to be unsafe. What is unsafe is that before it actually falls out the electrical connection points (spades) would only be touching in a few small spots which means more current flowing through small spots which means increased temperature which could cause a fire/melting/etc.

Locking connectors help avoid intermittent connections which can be just as important as avoiding things come completely undone. The setup should be designed to be safe if a cord was to actually be unplugged. (This is why I use female element receptacles and a male power in receptacle on the control panel).

Regarding tripping over cords: Cords should be placed in such a way that this would never be an issue. They should not be anywhere where you are walking. Walk an assembly plant floor: You'll never see (or should never see) operators with cords on the floor in their work zone.

Kal

 

[ekjohns]

that makes since