Irish Stout Guinness Draught Clone

[beerbeerbeer123]

Guiness Draught Clone 68% Eff.

8.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 66.67 %
3.00 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 25.00 %
1.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.20 %] (60 min) Hops 43.0 IBU
2 Pkgs Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale

Mash: 3.75 Gal 170.5 Degrees for 45 Min
2.50 Gal 185.0 Degrees for 20 Min Batch Sparge Round 1
2.50 Gal 185.0 Degrees for 20 Min Batch Sparge Round 2

Cool to 65 Pitch Nottingham let ferment 10 days at 65, Rack to Secondary for 14 days at 65.

Brewers note: To get the sourness of guiness. 1 Week before brewing put 24oz of Guiness in a bowl and sit it on the counter for 4 days to get sour. Freeze until brew day, On brew day remove and thaw. When there is about 30 mins left in your brew put the sour guiness on the stove and boil it for 10 mins then add it to flameout on your brew.

Brewers note two: Remember when brewing this beer that you will not get the creaminess of Guiness unless you have Nitrogen Injection. However the Taste is spot on. Enjoy

I thought 170*F denatures the enzymes..How do you get conversion mashing at that temp?

 

[kitemanks]

You are correct.
the secret to this brew is to thin it with temps. A long protien rest and then mash at 150 ish. That is if your going for the Guiness Draught style the extra stout is different. You can do their lager in much the same way.

 

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I thought 170*F denatures the enzymes..How do you get conversion mashing at that temp?

Back on the first page you'll see that this temp was the strike temp and not the mash temp. The recipe is mashing at 158.

 

[saxowam]

Made with the Irish Ale yeast and it came out amazing. Tapped yesterday and been drinking all day for St. Patrick's day. Can't seem to put it down. Also, been using the syringe trick to simulate the nitrogen feel since I have no nitrogen tap, and it has worked out great so far. Thanks for the great recipe.

 

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I'm bottling this tomorrow. Followed the recipe exactly, had my first stuck/slow sparge, came in 1/2 gallon under the boil volume, and my OG was higher than the recipe called for, but hopefully it will still be tasty. I'll let you guys know the results in about 3 weeks (geez, I really need to get a pipeline going!).

 

[strength3power]

This was my first homebrew about 3 months ago and just brewed it again. Can't wait to get home and start drinking it

 

[machfive55]

I agree with kitemanks here, and I have the BJCP judge comments to prove it I entered this recipe in nationals and a couple local comps and got a lot of comments that it was a decent beer but had an astringency that took away from the beer, I attribute this to the darker malts. I don't oversparge or anything, my water is moderately hard.

In my opinion, the BJCP guidelines state the beer should be noticeably bitter and the astringency is not necessary a flaw, nonetheless I got dinged pretty hard for it. In fact the BJCP guidelines list Guiness as an acceptable commercial example of the style, yet, I do not get the bitterness and astringency in the Guiness like the guidelines state. Therefore, I think that many judges are using their taste memory of Guiness when judging dry stouts, and Guiness is just smooth with a very, very, very subtle astringency.

So, for my next version I'm going to cut back on the roasted and use some debittered instead. I like the simplicity of the original recipe, however, my thoughts are that its not quite spot on.

 

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I had carbination problems with the first few six-packs that had bottle conditioned for 3 weeks. The beer was still good but just a little flat. I recently pulled another six-pack that has been sitting in the closet for 2 months (!) and they are fantastic. While this may not be an exact Guinness Draught clone, it is a pretty damn tasty beer. I'll probably brew this again in the fall but I'll use rice hulls this time.

 

[bluebrew17]

I see alot of people using EKG hops at 60 mins in their versions of guiness. Is this really necessary? my impression was, almost any hop will do (magnum, etc) at 60 mins cause the flavor of the hop is mostly gone, its just adding bitterness at 60.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

I see alot of people using EKG hops at 60 mins in their versions of guiness. Is this really necessary? my impression was, almost any hop will do (magnum, etc) at 60 mins cause the flavor of the hop is mostly gone, its just adding bitterness at 60.

Hop bitterness can be decribed as earthy, fruity, harsh, or mellow depending on hops used.

 

[cncmoose]

I agree with kitemanks here, and I have the BJCP judge comments to prove it I entered this recipe in nationals and a couple local comps and got a lot of comments that it was a decent beer but had an astringency that took away from the beer, I attribute this to the darker malts. I don't oversparge or anything, my water is moderately hard.

In my opinion, the BJCP guidelines state the beer should be noticeably bitter and the astringency is not necessary a flaw, nonetheless I got dinged pretty hard for it. In fact the BJCP guidelines list Guiness as an acceptable commercial example of the style, yet, I do not get the bitterness and astringency in the Guiness like the guidelines state. Therefore, I think that many judges are using their taste memory of Guiness when judging dry stouts, and Guiness is just smooth with a very, very, very subtle astringency.

So, for my next version I'm going to cut back on the roasted and use some debittered instead. I like the simplicity of the original recipe, however, my thoughts are that its not quite spot on.

I'm a little late to the party but, I'm wondering if instead of including the roast barley in the mash it was put into the mash when starting to increase the temp to mash out if that would help alleviate some of the astringency. I may be wrong but I don’t think the roast barley actually needs to be mashed. Any thoughts? The down side is that it would need to be crushed separately.

 

[JMass]

I brewed this last weekend. Someone noted that the color would not be as dark as Guiness and I agree. I used 1 ounce of EKG and a little of my homegrown Willamette. I soured some beer, but it was difficult to tell if it was really sour or not - didn't smell too much different! I put it in my cellar to be out of the way so may have been 65F or so. Also I don't batch sparge, so came up with 1.062 as I recall. I think my mash was around 152 or 153. I plan to put this on nitrogen and just bought a diffusion stone for that. I've made this before but with the recipe using acidulated grain.

Cheers.

 

[Math0]

I read almost everything in here and a lot of you are talking about the missing creamyness taste without the nitrogen. Would it be possible to do a longer protein rest (lets say 2 hours) and add about 0.5lbs of lactose? I know it is not a cream stout but I am guessing 0.5lb would not make such a great difference in a 5gal brew.

 

[shaigl]

thanks for this great recipe! i brewed it a week ago and now waiting for it to fermant.
differences in the making:
10gallon batch

7kg crisp maris otter (around 15.4 lbs)
3kg flaked barley (6.6 lbs)
1kg roasted barley (2.2 lbs)

yeasts: s-04

hops are the same.

mashed at 67C (152.6F)
sparged at 78C (172F)

OG at 1052-1053

fermanted 6 days in 16.5C (61.7F), 48hours into primary i took 600ml samples from each of the 5gallon batch and let them sit outside for 4 days, boiled, cooled, poured it back in - mixed (each sample went to the other batch for mixed flavours).
gravity was kinda stuck at 1022 so i took it up to 19C gardually (66.2F) today. (6 days into primary).
after a lot of thoughts, ive decided to keep it for another 2.5 weeks in the primary without a seondary and then bottle.
all in all the colour is beautiful and taste is amazing! (a bit bitter but im guessing it will smooth out, still a young batch)

thanks again for the amazing recipe!
:rockin:

 

[JMass]

OK, I'm happy to note that this is the first beer I used a diffusion stone with nitrogen. What a difference. This was ready to drink with a creamy head in one day! Taste was well balanced, some coffee and dark chocolate notes. My FSG was high. 1.018 as I recall from an OSG of 1.062. My wife says its not as light as Guiness. I said that was an understatement. It could dry out a bit as it ages I suppose. But tastes fine the way it is.

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

Has anybody just added 24 oz of a conventional sour beer rather than souring a couple of bottles of stout? I would think that the results with 24 oz of Guinness soured on my kitchen island will be a little more inconsistent than if I just poured a bottle of Jolly Pumpkin Noel de Calabeza or something like that into the kettle.

 

[DrBuzz]

I believe someone soured a light beer with success late in the posts. Your looking for the "vinegar" from the bacteria before you pasteurize it with a 10 minute boil before adding to your batch.

I want to know if anyone tried to actually add the roasted barley in the boil. The reason I ask is because there was a lot of talk about colour and astringency. I think the roasted barley in the boil will really affect taste and colour.

 

[TrickyDick]

See the very recent Zymurgy article about Irish beer and brewing water. There is an interesting veiled reference as to what the Guinness Essence is.
I will be trying that method very very soon.

TD

 

[DrBuzz]

Provide the link?

 

[Math0]

Mashing at 170F is way too high with 24oz of sour guinness. Maybe for a last sparge it would be fine though. I would do 2 sparge too. I added 1.5 oz of cocoa and 0.5lb of lactose in the last minute of the boil. Added 110g of dextrose for priming for a 5gal batch. This beer is amazing. Even without nitrogen.

 

[TrickyDick]

Provide the link?

You can look up the zymurgy nov/dec 2013 issue. Page 34.

Talks about a separate steeped liquor of the acidic roast barley being added back to main wort after the mash is complete. Presumably this happens in the kettle. Cites the twang is probably from low pH as opposed to deliberate souring. Suggested kettle pH 5.0-5.2

TD

 

[BurrTucky]

I thought this sounded great so I brewed it. It was my first all grain 5 gallon batch.

I substituted 1# barley with quick oats, also 2# of plain pale 2 row or 6 row with 1# Caramalt and 1 # Carmel malt, also I added 1# 80L Carmel and used 1# of chocolate malt for my roasted. Last 30 min of mash I stirred in 1/2# black malt.

End of boil I added a few ounces of honey & pure maple syrup. (why not)? My OG ended up @ 1.060


I am souring wort by using method described in Charlie Papazian's TCJOHB (DME boiled in 24 oz water & combined with crushed malted barley @ 70F in a bowl & covered by foil until sour. Then skim off gunk & boil) that I plan in adding to fermenter after boiling. I know, I should have done this ahead of time but I figure at worst I may end up with an inaccurate final gravity reading but not by much.

I will say I sampled the wort (not sour wort) and it tasted really good. Cocoa, Carmel sweetness and a touch of toffee.

 

[theck]

Quite a few pages here and this might have been answered already so sorry if it has I read though a few pages but didn't see it. If I add the sour guinness, couldn't I just add it 10 mins before flame out? Or is it best to do the boil 10 mins on the stove top?

 

[JMass]

Quite a few pages here and this might have been answered already so sorry if it has I read though a few pages but didn't see it. If I add the sour guinness, couldn't I just add it 10 mins before flame out? Or is it best to do the boil 10 mins on the stove top?

Right, the pre-boil didn't make sense to me either. The last 2 times I made this I did as you suggested. Never tried it the other way. The first time I did this, I couldn't tell if the Guinness soured properly. This time I soured it longer until I got some white spots on top!

 

[theck]

Right, the pre-boil didn't make sense to me either. The last 2 times I made this I did as you suggested. Never tried it the other way. The first time I did this, I couldn't tell if the Guinness soured properly. This time I soured it longer until I got some white spots on top!

Ok what I thought... Ya the white is good. I do sour pickles and carrots all ths time, always white on top.

How did yours turn out. The in laws drink guinness, been to Ireland so wanting to create something close to what they had there. According to them it's way different there, not sure how much of that is being in Ireland and drinking at the brewery as well.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[youngdh]

Ok what I thought... Ya the white is good. I do sour pickles and carrots all ths time, always white on top.

How did yours turn out. The in laws drink guinness, been to Ireland so wanting to create something close to what they had there. According to them it's way different there, not sure how much of that is being in Ireland and drinking at the brewery as well.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

I just returned from a 12 day Irish tour with 2 other couples and will say the Guinness is way different and much better in and around Dublin; creamier and more balanced. I can't drink it in the US as it's bitter with a thin mouthfeel as if it's watered down. Ironically the further we got away from Dublin the beer became more bitter. Two ladies in our group who aren't regular beer drinkers much less stout drinkers loved the Guinness we had in Ireland.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[TrickyDick]

I don't know for sure, but have suspected that in Ireland, they do not pasteurize, but for export they do. Did you get to try any Beamish? Totally agree about the Guinness being better in Ireland. Oh I can still drink it here, though I don't enjoy it as much.

TD


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[youngdh]

I don't know for sure, but have suspected that in Ireland, they do not pasteurize, but for export they do. Did you get to try any Beamish? Totally agree about the Guinness being better in Ireland. Oh I can still drink it here, though I don't enjoy it as much.

TD


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

I didn't get to try Beamish as I never saw it on tap at any of the pubs we visited along the way but did have several pints of Murphy's which was just as creamy as the Guinness with a bit less bittering. Interestingly enough just about every pub we hit also had on tap Heineken, Carlsberg and Coors Light! I'm surprised the Irish would even serve Coors Light :-0.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[theck]

Mine poured from the nitro tap... tastes awesome, have yet to crack open a guinness to compare but love it.

 

[youngdh]

I brewed this recipe today scaled down to. 3 gallon batch but I fear my soured Guinness didn't sour very well. I poured a 12 oz bottle of Guinness Draught into a mason jar 6 days ago leaving it open to the air. On day 4 I checked the "souring" and detected nothing so followed advice on this thread adding a few grains of crushed malted barley and went a step further an put a thumb nails dab of Greek yogurt in it to be sure I got the lacto bacillus in the mix. This sat for two more days leading up to brew day today. Prior to dumping this in to last 10 min of the boil I sampled the "soured" Guinness again and yet again no detectable sourness. What went wrong with this? I fear my finished product will lack the classic tartness of a Guinness :-(.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew