Growing Grapes in transplanted soil?

[wrelsien]

Howdy,

I have a farm in Eastern NC, at this farm we have several center-pivot irrigation systems. We are looking into some ventures outside our normal game, which is turf.
One idea being tossed around is taking an auger and pulling out our dirt, sending our trucks out to Napa valley or some other revered wine country and filling our fields with this better dirt.
My question is how much of quality of grape comes from the soil. Is this even a reasonable idea? I have a lot of skepticism towards this but, I am on the brew forums, so I said I would get ya'lls take on the idea.

any comments would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Justibone]

Moving tons and tons of soil all the way from Napa to NC might not be the most cost effective, even if someone would sell it to you. I don't know a lot about it, but I would tend to view it skeptically.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I think the grapes enjoy climate more than soil. Seems to me that soil is a direct result of climate over centuries.

However, I have had some NC wines that were grown on an old tobacco farm and the wines defiantly had a tobacco flavor, so soil is important.

 

[gungadin]

Regardless of how the grapes actually come out, you'll have a good story. "This wine comes from grapes grown locally but they had the dirt trucked in from napa!"

 

[CampFireWine]

Even if they gave you the soil and trucked it in for free, within no time the local soil and microbes would mix in with it and it would eventually turn more into local soil. Soil is a big part to wine as water minerals is to beer.

 

[jgln]

I think the grapes enjoy climate more than soil. Seems to me that soil is a direct result of climate over centuries.

However, I have had some NC wines that were grown on an old tobacco farm and the wines defiantly had a tobacco flavor, so soil is important.

From what I have read and heard I agree.

 

[jgln]

Why not start be having your soil tested to see what would be wrong with it? Why do you think it is bad soil?

(why do I have to wait 30 seconds between posts??)

 

[CampFireWine]

(why do I have to wait 30 seconds between posts??)

Why not just add it together with your last one?

 

[gungadin]

Instead of grapes, put up the vines and grow hops horizontally.

 

[jgln]

Why not just add it together with your last one?

I was going to but I wanted to make sure it was understood the comment was to one person and the question to the OP not the other person.

 

[CampFireWine]

(why do I have to wait 30 seconds between posts??)

Why not just add it together with your last one?

I was going to but I wanted to make sure it was understood the comment was to one person and the question to the OP not the other person.

Multi-Quote works good for that but can be a little tricky sometimes.

 

[jgln]

Multi-Quote works good for that but can be a little tricky sometimes.

Still not sure why I have to wait 30 seconds.

 

[Rossnaree]

Appellation.... it is perhaps with regard to vines/wines that the old adage about the whole being greater than the sum of its parts is most true.

Soil is one part. An important, integral part, but still only one. Climate, even from year to year the weather patterns, so many things come into play. Think also in terms of vertical tasting; each year is different even though same vines, same wines.

With the current trends leaning toward locavore, your soil, your grapes, etc may mean more to people in the long run. In fact, instead of planting things that require you to heavily amend your soil, why not plant what goes well with your soil, apart from improving the tilth and fertility? I mean, if someone has very alkaline soil and they want to plant/grow blueberries, they'd have to make some very heavy additions of acidifying agents and KEEP applying them, and this in turn may well be very detrimental to the specific soil structure that exists best as alkaline. This is just an example, but you get what I mean.

Find what grows well in YOUR soil. You know, not ALL grapes grow better in California! In fact, look more into the Cynthiana grape; on more than one occasion it won "Best Red In The World" award at international wine competitions. There are a lot of great (and even more NOT so great!) varieties that will do well in the East; always, ALWAYS your best first step is to talk to whatever local agricultural agency exists in your area. Maybe you won't be talking to the right person your first time out, but eventually you will. If you're persistent. And if you're not persistent, well then this isn't what you really wanted to do to begin with, right? Check with the NC Ag dep't, see what's available to you in terms of resources. Odds are quite strong that you're not the first to think grapes; maybe they're also quite strong that you ARE the first to think about spending $1,452,871.57 on shipping Napa soil back east.

I know I write too much, but it beats 1,674 posts because I had to wait 30 seconds. HAH! j/k

 

[Rossnaree]

P.S. - How about using a marketing theme along the lines of, "Appalachain Appellation"??

 

[Justibone]

Still not sure why I have to wait 30 seconds.

Anti-spammer thing.

 

[truckjohn]

and to stop double-triple posts....

Consider that the soil you have already may be there in large part because of the local climate, etc.... The sandy loams of the Deep South are heavily leached out by our 60+ inches of rain per year.... How much rain does the Napa Valley get? How long would it take to leach out 6" of top soil?

Then, consider how much dirt you would really need.... 1 acre x 1" deep = 134 yards = 7.5 dump trucks full..... and that's just a small lot 1" deep.... Say you have 300 acres and you want it 1' deep.... Good luck getting 27,000 dump trucks full shipped from California - and getting it all through the ag inspections without fully sterilizing/kilning it to kill off pathogens and bugs....

If you want Napa Valley Wine - you gotta grow it in Napa Valley.... but why not learn about your local climate and soil and grow vines that are well suited towards the area and the wines you can to make....

Thanks

 

[CampFireWine]

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread.

If you send a soil sample off and have it tested and select a grape variety suited for your environment you will be well ahead. I wonder if you could do a 'no till' and let the grass grow between the rows and just keep it mowed.

....we have several center-pivot irrigation systems....

Where does the irrigation water come from?

 

[wrelsien]

Wow. thanks everybody. Im glad to hear ya'lls feedback. I do't know what will become of this but, at least I have some info for the boss man on monday.

Where does the irrigation water come from?

The water is pumped from the capefear river, very plentiful.


Merry Christmas!

 

[gregbathurst]

Terroir in wine is a combination of soil, climate and variety, with some local customs thrown in. For grapes you really want soil with good drainage and good water-holding capacity and a deep root run, with not too much fertility. Basically not too wet but not too dry, not too rich but not too poor. In a drier area you want a wetter, richer soil but in a wetter area you want a drier, poorer soil. Really its all about balance. The best grapes like bordeaux are grown on a deep, well drained soil, but a shallow soil can be used with irrigation.

If you disturb soil too much, like moving it, you damage the structure and roots won't develop well. Grapes always need an extensive root system.

 

[CampFireWine]

If you disturb soil too much, like moving it, you damage the structure and roots won't develop well. Grapes always need an extensive root system.

Under certain conditions it can help. When my grandpa put in his one row vineyard at the edge of his yard, he brought in a back hoe and dug a fairly deep trench, then backfilled it without the clay and added a truck load of something.

 

[Justibone]

I think he means disturbing the soil once the vine is planted.

 

[gregbathurst]

Under certain conditions it can help. When my grandpa put in his one row vineyard at the edge of his yard, he brought in a back hoe and dug a fairly deep trench, then backfilled it without the clay and added a truck load of something.

Yeah, moving soil can be a good idea if the soil needs improving. Often adding soil on top of the existing soil can help, if the existing soil is too shallow or thin. One thing that works well is mounding the soil from the inter-row space, moving it under the vine row.
You have to be careful digging into clay, sometimes you just create a badly drained sump.
What I meant with my previous comment is that you can't expect soil that has been moved around to be as good as it originally was, though it might still be better than the soil in the new site. I don't think the economics of moving large quantities of soil would work out, there isn't that much money to be made from grapes.