Going electric for my new Keggle, will this work

[jflongo]

I currently have a Keggle that I converter for my BK, using propane. I will be getting another Keggle soon, that I plan on making into a HLT. I was thinking I would slowly switch to Electric at some point, so figured this would be a good place to start.

Here are the basic parts I was thinking, just for the heating portion. I already have a 30AMP outlet, so will need to make a cord to run from the Element to Plug. Then here is the rest, what are you thoughts, on why this would be good or bad? I will be heating around 10 - 12 gallons in that Keggle usually.

500K Ohm Potentiometer - Parts Express

$1.79

Amico Solid State Relay SSR Voltage Resistance Regulator 25A 24-380V AC 500K Ohm 1/4W - Amico

$17.88

Camco 02962/02963 5500W 240V Screw-In Lime Life Ripple Water Heater Element - Ultra Low Watt Density - Camco

$27.19

Stainless Steel 304 Cast Pipe Fitting, Hex Locknut, MSS SP-114, 1" NPT Female - Kingdom Precision Casting Co

$6.46

Subtotal: $53.32

 

[LordUlrich]

For a HLT I strongly recommend a temperature controller of some kind not just a pot. One of the big advantages of electric is the ease of control.

Also GFIC is a must.

 

[jflongo]

Do you have a link to one that would work?

Also, so you are saying I shouldn't use my 30AM Outlet that I already had for my welder?

 

[LordUlrich]

I can look for a link to a temp controller tonight once I get home, but many people use various pid controllers. There is quite a bit of discussion over on the electric brewing section of the forum.
For the gfic most of the time it is the breaker that needs to be changed. Is the outlet 3 or 4 prong? This is also a topic discussed at length on the electric brewing section of the forum.

 

[jflongo]

The outlet I have is a 3 prong with a hole in the middle. I don't recall if my welding cord had a 3 prong end with one in the middle or not. I already have this wired up, so if I needed to swap out the outlet, that wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Now stupid me, I didn't even realize there was an Electric Brewing section, I'll check that out, thanks. If you do find a link though, that would be great.

 

[LordUlrich]

OK I have seen several threads talking about this controller: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=14
(I am currently building my own, and have no experience with this equipment)
I am sure you can find a cheaper one on E-bay or someplace like that.

It should like you do not have a 4 wire plug. You will want to have a GFCI, it is a important safety feature, being as water and electricity don't get along, and you lose in the mix. To do GFCI I think you need a 4 wire circut. The good thing is it should be easy to change out the cord on the welder, It is also part of the current electric code (although not many people seem to follow it).

 

[theck]

Interested

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[jflongo]

OK I have seen several threads talking about this controller: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=14
(I am currently building my own, and have no experience with this equipment)
I am sure you can find a cheaper one on E-bay or someplace like that.

It should like you do not have a 4 wire plug. You will want to have a GFCI, it is a important safety feature, being as water and electricity don't get along, and you lose in the mix. To do GFCI I think you need a 4 wire circut. The good thing is it should be easy to change out the cord on the welder, It is also part of the current electric code (although not many people seem to follow it).

I will make sure I have 4 wire plug. Now in addition to the above PID, it looks like I need these as well, does this sound right?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=332

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=109

It also sounds like I need some sort of power option as well, to turn power off and on to the PID, instead of just plugging it in and un plugging it.

 

[dyqik]

You need a SSR to work with the PID controller, not an SSVR and pot.
e.g. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30

The PID will switch the SSR on and off rapidly to control the element power. If you choose the right PID controller, it will have a manual mode that you can use in the same way as the SSVR and pot. But you shouldn't need this functionality on a HLT, just on a boil kettle.

You should choose a SSR that's rated at least twice your element's design current - they're only a few dollars more, and it greatly improves reliability. You'll also need a heat sink on the SSR, exposed outside of the control box.

 

[jflongo]

You need a SSR to work with the PID controller, not an SSVR and pot.
e.g. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30

The PID will switch the SSR on and off rapidly to control the element power. If you choose the right PID controller, it will have a manual mode that you can use in the same way as the SSVR and pot. But you shouldn't need this functionality on a HLT, just on a boil kettle.

You should choose a SSR that's rated at least twice your element's design current - they're only a few dollars more, and it greatly improves reliability. You'll also need a heat sink on the SSR, exposed outside of the control box.

Ok thanks, so it sounds like...

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=14

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=109

I was thinking of mounting all of this inside a junction box with the pid displaying, and a voltage/amp display. Do you think adding a switch like this would be a good idea as well?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=350

 

[dyqik]

You'd probably be better off looking at this http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3 PID controller. It's a few bucks more, but it's the one used in most of P-J's circuit designs in the Electric Brewing forum, and it has the manual mode, equivalent to a Pot+SSVR, which you could use for a boil kettle as well.

Those PID boxes fit straight into the Auber Project box, which saves a bit of complicated drilling. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_34&products_id=143

A voltage/current display is pretty much redundant though.

What you want to do has been described several times over in the electric brewing forum - have a look at a typical E-BIAB project over there.

 

[jflongo]

You'd probably be better off looking at this http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3 PID controller. It's a few bucks more, but it's the one used in most of P-J's circuit designs in the Electric Brewing forum, and it has the manual mode, equivalent to a Pot+SSVR, which you could use for a boil kettle as well.

Those PID boxes fit straight into the Auber Project box, which saves a bit of complicated drilling. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_34&products_id=143

A voltage/current display is pretty much redundant though.

What you want to do has been described several times over in the electric brewing forum - have a look at a typical E-BIAB project over there.

I already ordered the voltage/current display, just thought it would be cool, and was pretty cheap on EBAY. Here is where I'm at right now.


1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control output)
Item #: SYL-2352
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3

$46.50

Liquid tight K type, 4 in probe, 1/4 NPT Thread
Item #: TC-K100MMNPT
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=109

$24.95

40A SSR
Item #: MGR-1D4840
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30

$19.00

External Mount Heat Sink for 40A SSR (Square)
Item #: HS40ET
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=224

$20.00


Box for 1/16 DIN controller
Item #: Pbox16
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=143

$29.67

Sub-Total: $140.12

 

[dyqik]

That looks good, although you should also include a couple of switches/contactors in the system to allow you to turn off the PID controller and the element independently.

You might want to look at this thread over in the electric brewing forum for a suitable circuit diagram (maybe the 4th image there?). It might also be a good idea to start a thread over there for advice about the circuit - I've not built a 240V electric brewing circuit, and I'm only part way through setting up my 120V PID controller (although I have installed PID controllers on espresso machines, and use them at work on cryogenic systems).

 

[jflongo]

That looks good, although you should also include a couple of switches/contactors in the system to allow you to turn off the PID controller and the element independently.

You might want to look at this thread over in the electric brewing forum for a suitable circuit diagram (maybe the 4th image there?). It might also be a good idea to start a thread over there for advice about the circuit - I've not built a 240V electric brewing circuit, and I'm only part way through setting up my 120V PID controller (although I have installed PID controllers on espresso machines, and use them at work on cryogenic systems).

Ok thanks, I have looked at that a little, I'll re-post in the electric section on what I believe I need, and get more feed back there. Thanks again all.

 

[Photopilot]

You do not need 4 legs on your outlet. But you do need four legs feeding your electric brewing.

The four legs you will need for brewing are.

1. 120V leg 1
2. 120V leg 2
3. Neutral
4. Ground

In order to run a 240 element you will need the two legs of 120 to create the 240. If you have a 240 outlet in a wall with 3 poles or 3 holes in it chances are you only have the 3 out of the 4 wired to that box. you can't magically make a fourth wire appear.

If the outlet was used for 240 in the past you definitely have the two legs of 120V in the circuit. You need to determine whether the last leg is a neutral or ground. This is where my knowledge gets murky because my house that i wired has separate ground and neutral, my current place i rent has a common ground and neutral.

In order to run a 120 circuit you need the neutral wire to combine with one leg of the 120 to create 120, whereas 2 legs of 120 create the 240. In order to run a GFCI you will need the ground wire. At my previous place i rented from I only had 120 120 and ground feeding the dryer outlet I used. Since this dryer and my brewing area were in the kitchen I used a separate cord coming from a GFCI outlet to feed my control panels other power needs. I also "borrowed" the neutral and ground from the 120V circuit to feed the GFCI built into my Control panel. The 240 legs are only feeding the two 120 legs to the GFCI circuit breaker. My current setup is in a garage so I bought a separate GFCI that plugs into the wall that I then plug in the 120V cord into.

It was only by accident or design of my home that led to this design but it has a great advantage. My main kettle PID is run off of 120 coming from this 120V feed from a separate outlet. So even with the 240 plugged in there is no power to the heating element, unless the 120 is plugged in. This could be because I also have a contactor relay wired to the Boil Keg heating element as well. If I remember correctly the PID ans SSR only regulates one of the 120 legs. Meaning you get 120V at all times which only produces 1/4 of the power but when the PID senses the need for more heat it causes the SSR to open the other 120 leg giving 240 and heating the water. The contactor switch/relay will turn off all power to the element circuit.

This allows me to fill the boil keg the night before and set a timer on the 120V line to go off at a certain time. I set my alarm for 40 minutes later and wake up to hot water ready to mash.

You should look into adding a spa panel GFCI into your circuit as well as contactor switches. Make your control panel larger than you think you need. I started out with a large computer box for my panel because that is what I had sitting around. I only had a GFCI CB, a PID, and SSR with one outlet initially now I have 2 PIDs, 2 contatcors, 4 outlets, and 3 switches, glad I had the room to expand.

 

[jflongo]

You do not need 4 legs on your outlet. But you do need four legs feeding your electric brewing.

The four legs you will need for brewing are.

1. 120V leg 1
2. 120V leg 2
3. Neutral
4. Ground

In order to run a 240 element you will need the two legs of 120 to create the 240. If you have a 240 outlet in a wall with 3 poles or 3 holes in it chances are you only have the 3 out of the 4 wired to that box. you can't magically make a fourth wire appear.

If the outlet was used for 240 in the past you definitely have the two legs of 120V in the circuit. You need to determine whether the last leg is a neutral or ground. This is where my knowledge gets murky because my house that i wired has separate ground and neutral, my current place i rent has a common ground and neutral.

In order to run a 120 circuit you need the neutral wire to combine with one leg of the 120 to create 120, whereas 2 legs of 120 create the 240. In order to run a GFCI you will need the ground wire. At my previous place i rented from I only had 120 120 and ground feeding the dryer outlet I used. Since this dryer and my brewing area were in the kitchen I used a separate cord coming from a GFCI outlet to feed my control panels other power needs. I also "borrowed" the neutral and ground from the 120V circuit to feed the GFCI built into my Control panel. The 240 legs are only feeding the two 120 legs to the GFCI circuit breaker. My current setup is in a garage so I bought a separate GFCI that plugs into the wall that I then plug in the 120V cord into.

It was only by accident or design of my home that led to this design but it has a great advantage. My main kettle PID is run off of 120 coming from this 120V feed from a separate outlet. So even with the 240 plugged in there is no power to the heating element, unless the 120 is plugged in. This could be because I also have a contactor relay wired to the Boil Keg heating element as well. If I remember correctly the PID ans SSR only regulates one of the 120 legs. Meaning you get 120V at all times which only produces 1/4 of the power but when the PID senses the need for more heat it causes the SSR to open the other 120 leg giving 240 and heating the water. The contactor switch/relay will turn off all power to the element circuit.

This allows me to fill the boil keg the night before and set a timer on the 120V line to go off at a certain time. I set my alarm for 40 minutes later and wake up to hot water ready to mash.

You should look into adding a spa panel GFCI into your circuit as well as contactor switches. Make your control panel larger than you think you need. I started out with a large computer box for my panel because that is what I had sitting around. I only had a GFCI CB, a PID, and SSR with one outlet initially now I have 2 PIDs, 2 contatcors, 4 outlets, and 3 switches, glad I had the room to expand.

I will double check the wiring I used in my garage to see if it's 3 or 4 wires. If it's only 3, then I'll probably take it all out, and re-wire it. Luckily it's in garage going to a subpanel, so probably just about 20 feet of wire I would need to re-run, with a new breaker and outlet.

 

[Photopilot]

I will double check the wiring I used in my garage to see if it's 3 or 4 wires. If it's only 3, then I'll probably take it all out, and re-wire it. Luckily it's in garage going to a subpanel, so probably just about 20 feet of wire I would need to re-run, with a new breaker and outlet.

That would be the sweet setup with a fresh rewire. My previous place (rental) had a 40 Amp CB which allowed me to run an element on my BK and one on my HLT at the same time. Which is nice especially for initial mash in. You can fill both vessels and heat your water in half the time.

If you do wire a new line in I would suggest putting in at least a 40A CB in maybe more. You can also put the GFCI right into your main panel. I bought a pool CB box and took the GFCI out of it and put it into my control panel. I remember having trouble finding a GFCI CB alone and it was about the same price as the whole pool/jacuzzi box.

I still like the idea of having a separate 120V line coming in to control the PIDs, pumps, etc. I allows me to control the controls of the system based on a cheap wall plug in timer. It also allows me to run the pumps and other non heating element parts of my rig without factoring in their load.