Go All Grain or Go Home?

[BeorGhlas]

Hello all, I am a long time reader of the forums here and have finally got around to creating an account! I find everyone's opinions, insight and knowledge invaluable to my success as a homebrewer. Whenever I have a problem or concern with a batch, I always come here first and I always find helpful answer.

I was recently offended by a fellow Twitter user, who told me "extract brewing is weak and I should not be blogging about it. Go All-Grain or go home."

Over the past year and a half I have created dozens of really great homebrews from extract kits, and two with partial mash.

What does everyone say to this type of superior attitude? Am I not allowed to blog about homebrewing just because it is extract? I'm trying to inspire my friends and promote to the general public that they should take up the hobby. People make perfectly great beer with Mr. Brew, should they be looked down upon? WTF.

 

[Homercidal]

All Grain is weak. You really shouldn't be discussing brewing unless you grow and malt your own grains and raise hops...

 

[Ceetar]

i brew extracts with steeped grains, you can still make perfectly tasty beer like that, and certainly have plenty of flexibility to create your own recipes with all sorts of creativity.

I've never been a real stickler for things like measuring exactly OGs or calculating efficiency anyway, which I start to think is more important all-grain?

I still live in an apartment and do all my brewing at my parents. If i started getting even more equipment to start doing all-grain I think they'd kill me.

 

[IffyG]

What does everyone say to this type of superior attitude? Am I not allowed to blog about homebrewing just because it is extract? I'm trying to inspire my friends and promote to the general public that they should take up the hobby. People make perfectly great beer with Mr. Brew, should they be looked down upon? WTF.

The all grain vs extract battle has been fought and the hatchet has been buried here. Most of us believe that your process is far more important than whether you use all grain or extract for your beer.

 

[JonM]

You can make darn good beers with extract and it seems to me that lots of the top-notch brewers here sometimes brew with extract. Ignore that twitter twit who says otherwise.

 

[Revvy]

All Grain is weak. You really shouldn't be discussing brewing unless you grow and malt your own grains and raise hops...

Growing and malting your own grain is weak, you're not a real brewer unless you smelt your own copper to make your boilers and fermenters.

And form them by hand.

BeorGhlas, most of us on here have grown beyond this infantile "extract -vs- all grain" nonsense.

It's not the how, that makes better beer, it's the who.

Read this, and go be the best brewer you can regardless of what ingredients and processes you use.

That's all that matters. It's not a better than , it's not a -vs- argument, both excellent and crappy beer can be made either ag or extract, depending on the brewer.

 

[DoubleAught]

To each their own in my opinion. If you're happy doing extract don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[Zamial]

All grain does not = better beer. Control over X equals better beer. X can be ANYTHING in the brewing process the more control you have over X the better your potential beer can be. If you do not know what you are trying to control and how to control then what is the point?

How many times do I read here: (Not in any particular order):
"Controlling your fermentation temps..."
"Building your water to style..."
"Making a yeast starter..."
"Doing full boils..."
"Kegging...(arguable)"
"Keeping good records..."
Followed by: "...made my beer better."

I have not seen the tread that started "All Grain made my beer dramatically better."

I have tasted some GAWD AWFUL all grain beers. I have also tasted some FANTASTIC extract beers. Let's face facts, if you can not make a good, if not great extract brew then you have some VERY serious problems that need addressed. As a matter of fact I am in the process of making a co-worker into an extract brewer! He and I are both excited to do it.

I do not look down on extract brewers or think of AG brews as superior in anyway. There is no BJCP distinction between the 2 so why is there a segregation to begin with. I have even heard tale of home brew clubs that have this issue. (Mine does not and never will)

We are all brewers and have enough oppression to contend with in our states to breed our own.

 

[Hoppus_Poppatopolis]

Growing and malting your own grain is weak, you're not a real brewer unless you smelt your own copper to make your boilers and fermenters.

Piiiissshhhh....get back to me after you've mined your own ore. Who's going digging this weekend??


The Twitter Twit is just showing off his ignorance.

 

[copyright1997]

Piiiissshhhh....get back to me after you've mined your own ore. Who's going digging this weekend??


The Twitter Twit is just showing off his ignorance.

No, you need to really go to the source. You need to create the ore.

While I do like creating from scratch vs. buying a kit, the main reason I started doing all grain is because it is cheaper. With group buys, reusing yeast, and buying hops in larger quantities, I have my typical 5 gallon batch cost under $20.

 

[Revvy]

Piiiissshhhh....get back to me after you've mined your own ore. Who's going digging this weekend??


The Twitter Twit is just showing off his ignorance.

Meh.....who wants to do all that digging, I plan to launch myself into space and mine my own asteroid.


After I build my own shuttle from scratch...

(Of course I need metal to do that- WILL THIS MADNESS NEVER END?) :fro:

 

[Hatchbrew]

Some breweries run on extract recipes...

 

[stumpwater]

If i were you i would tell them twitter twits to kiss my shiny hot extract kettle! cheers

 

[Rev2010]

Man, I went into this thread with "Another one of these threads??" ringing in my mind till I read the reason you posted it.

Look, no matter what, when you blog, or post a Youtube vid, or whatever means of putting yourself on the net is going to ALWAYS bring some forms of criticisms - sometimes well based and sometimes waaay off base, as in this case. Ignore it man! I've been doing extract since January of this year, many many batches and outside of 2 batches all have been awesome. The other two are still drinkable for sure but sub-par.

I myself am starting AG this weekend. Just seemed to be the next step since with extract I can't tweak what grains are used or the percentages involved, but that doesn't mean I won't make extract again. I'm actually worried about how many AG tries it might take to best my favorite extract brews lol. Do it the way you want. There is nothing wrong with extract whatsoever.


Rev.

 

[Rolly]

All grain is for geeks that live in their parents basements and have nothing else to do but play World of Warcraft and criticize other peoples choices.

Yes, I'm an all-grain brewer, and no, extract brewing is not an inferior hobby. Sometimes people that devote their entire existence to something just can't understand why everyone else isn't doing the same. But if everyone else WAS doing the same they would have nothing to turn their noses up at and would find something else to get snobby about.

Bottom line is that insecure people tend to make a lot of self-serving comments, especially on the internet. Ignore them and brew on.

 

[rockfish42]

"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe."
The only caveat to all-grain being potentially superior for the same recipe is if you have badly stored or old extract.

 

[scottland]

All-grain = control
All-grain != guaranteed better beer

Tell him to stop being a ******. (and that's coming from an all-grain brewer)

 

[wildwest450]

What does everyone say to this type of superior attitude?

It's no different than the 90% of people on here who swear they'll die if they drink a macro brew.

I say screw em.



_

 

[atchinator]

Step one of making your own beer from scratch...

1) Create Universe.

 

[Piratwolf]

Spazzing.

 

[Piratwolf]

Edit: Waaaaay too late to the party.

"All your home brew are belong to us!"

"All your home brew are belong to us!"

 

[daksin]

"If you wish to brew a beer from scratch, you must first invent the universe" -Carl Sagan

 

[thegerm]

Hello all, I am a long time reader of the forums here and have finally got around to creating an account! I find everyone's opinions, insight and knowledge invaluable to my success as a homebrewer. Whenever I have a problem or concern with a batch, I always come here first and I always find helpful answer.

I was recently offended by a fellow Twitter user, who told me "extract brewing is weak and I should not be blogging about it. Go All-Grain or go home."

Over the past year and a half I have created dozens of really great homebrews from extract kits, and two with partial mash.

What does everyone say to this type of superior attitude? Am I not allowed to blog about homebrewing just because it is extract? I'm trying to inspire my friends and promote to the general public that they should take up the hobby. People make perfectly great beer with Mr. Brew, should they be looked down upon? WTF.

grow your own grain and hops or go home. also run your own yeast lab or go home. malt your own grain or go home. pump your own water by hand from the well you dug with your bare fingers or go home.

that attitude it stupid. if you're making beer, you're brewing. extract or not. it's great that you can choose your own level of involvement in the hobby. snobs are stupid and should be shunned.

 

[BetterSense]

People don't make beer anyway; yeast do.

 

[DoubleAught]

All grain is for geeks that live in their parents basements and have nothing else to do but play World of Warcraft and criticize other peoples choices.

Whats up with the WOW jab? Low blow bro...low blow

 

[BrewThruYou]

Some breweries run on extract recipes...

Are they still in business? Disregarding the debate on whether extract can make the same quality beer as AG, AG is WAY cheaper.

Sent from my iPhone 4S using HB Talk

 

[Bmorebrew]

I believe it was Robert Boyle who in 1685 said "Thou art not really a brewer unless thou hast a gas law named after thee".

 

[70Cuda383]

Are they still in business? Disregarding the debate on whether extract can make the same quality beer as AG, AG is WAY cheaper.

Sent from my iPhone 4S using HB Talk

it wouldn't surprise me if there were breweries using extract here and there. my wife works for Cargill, although she works in the soybean oil side of the house, she knows that cargill makes malt from raw grain, and sells it to the "big dogs" who make that urine colored mainstream beer that's cheaper than coca-cola.

so, if the "big dogs" and I'm sure probably most of the smaller craft breweries are buying grains that are already malted, then why should ANYONE get their panties in a wad over whos using "all grain" or "extract"

the only thing all grain offers you, is control over the grain bill...since extracts are often "blends" like the wheat dried malt extract I just bought to supplement my first wheat beer. I wanted 6 lbs of wheat, but they didn't have it, so I bought the 3 lbs they had, and figured I'd supliment with the spray malt they said they had. in big letters on the bag it says "wheat spray dried malt extract" but when I got home, I discovered in fine print, it says "60% wheat, 40% barley"

great. so much for my perfect 50/50 blend of wheat to barley!

oh well. I'm sure it'll taste great, and next time, I'll be ordering my grains off the internet, since my LHBS doesn't seem to stock very much specialty grains.

 

[70Cuda383]

forgot to type out the other thing I think all grain offers you.

freshness.

can you make good coffee at home using already ground and packaged coffee? sure can! but does coffee that you buy as a whole bean, then grind up RIGHT before you brew, taste better? Yup!

 

[Revvy]

Are they still in business? Disregarding the debate on whether extract can make the same quality beer as AG, AG is WAY cheaper.

Sent from my iPhone 4S using HB Talk

Quite a few are, in fact I frequent a nice microbrewry that brews with extracts actually.

 

[Revvy]

forgot to type out the other thing I think all grain offers you.

freshness.

Ask Forrest if their extract at Austin homebrew is fresh, or Northern Brewer or many many lhbs with high turnover.....that's kinda a moot point. Unless you're buying directly from the maltser your grain, you have just as much of a chance of not getting fresh grain from a store, as you are not getting fresh extract. There's no gaurantee how long that bag of two row or specialty grains has been sitting in the corner. In fact since more folks really do brew with extract than all grain, your chances are probably higher that the extract is fresher than the grain.

I frequented one store where I used to live, where maybe only a half dozen of us customers, and the owner were ag brewers, most everyone else who he sold to came in for extracts.

I kinda pushed him into starting to carry bulk grains, most of what he carried were pre measured packages of grain from Ld Carlson.

You can't really generalize these days that Extract isn't going to be fresh, or it's going to be in cans. That's really changed over the last decade.

 

[BrewingRugger]

I say as long as you're homebrewing you are superior to all those who buy comerical beer. No matter if it is all grain or extract.

 

[Surly]

I just read like the last two pages of this thread and am saddened.

It's beer people. It's not status. It's not I am better than you. It's beer.

When we do the best we can with brewing with what we have, 95% of it turns out to be drinkable. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Mongrel]

the only thing all grain offers you, is control over the grain bill...

and little things like mash temps.

 

[rico567]

I started as an extract brewer, because I thought (and still do) that it's easier that way. I became an AG brewer because I could- I have the facilities, and my circumstances allow me plenty of time and the flexibility to do it. But who knows? I might go back to brewing extract at some point, for all kinds of reasons. Do what suits YOU, and don't pay attention to people who dump on something you know is good.

 

[geer537]

My friends call me a purist because I like whole hops and am an AG brewer. Truth of the matter is that I was taught AG first and went with it. I brewed my first extract kit with a friend about a month ago and guess what? It was fun and I have more beer.

Really- it doesn't matter 1 bit. Whatever you are into, go for it.

 

[thegerm]

all grain also offers you a choice in your mash process. extracts have a fermentability that you might not want. there's also no high % rye extract still, but then again that's because it's not really in demand.

but you can adjust fermentability up and down via recipe adjustments with simple sugars or steeping grains like carapils, respectively.

the great thing about using extract is that whoever made that extract is likely much better and more consistant than you are at mashing.

 

[Bmorebrew]

The only potential difference I can see - and this really only applies if you aren't doing full size boils, is hop utilization. You can get around this somewhat by upping your hop rates, but if you're making 5 gallon batches but boiling 2.5 gallons, you're just not going to get 100 IBU in there.

 

[Phunhog]

I brew all grain. I think it is much easier to screw up an all grain batch of beer than it is to to screw up an extract batch. It is my opinion that it is much harder to brew really good all grain beer than extract beer. The other thing in the "extract v. all grain" debate is that it only focuses on the end product....beer. I think one of my favorite parts of all grain brewing is the actual brewing process. Grain milling, mashing, lautering, partigyle brewing, mash hopping, and to a lesser extent recipe formulation, are all ancient processes that I think are really cool. When you brew from extract you miss out on a lot of that. Now maybe a lot of homebrewers don't care about the process and just want to make good beer. Fair enough. They can boil water add DME,hops, yeast, ferment and make good beer. I just think that so much of this hobby/addiction is more than just "making beer".

 

[rockfish42]

all grain also offers you a choice in your mash process. extracts have a fermentability that you might not want. there's also no high % rye extract still, but then again that's because it's not really in demand.

but you can adjust fermentability up and down via recipe adjustments with simple sugars or steeping grains like carapils, respectively.

the great thing about using extract is that whoever made that extract is likely much better and more consistant than you are at mashing.

Northern Brewer has a 20% rye malt extract now, that should work for most american rye styles.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/northern-brewer-rye-malt-syrup.html