Glass carboy vs. plastic bucket

[Braufessor]

i feel like the people that are choosing plastic are sacrificing making a better beer with no extra chemicals in it because you don't want to pay a little more... i just think that is sad, i don't have a lot of extra money that i can spend on brewing and i wont brew till i have the right tools to make it work

Is there actually any evidence that food grade fermentation buckets leach "chemicals" into fermenting beer? By evidence, I mean tested in a lab under the same conditions you would encounter in fermenting beer...

I thought there was a thread a while back that talked about estrogen-like compounds in plastic or something like that...... but, it seemed that the conditions were much more extreme than fermenting some beer.

I know there are concerns with some types of plastic, under some kinds of circumstances - but is there any conclusive proof - or even a single "experiment" that has been conducted to substantiate any of this in relation to fermenting beer in food grade buckets??

Seems like it would be a cool experiment (real/controlled/lab setting) for one of the various podcasts to carry out. Or aha, or something.....

 

[McBrewskie]

My back likes the plastic ones more than the glass.

 

[LLBeanJ]

its still plastic if it scratches it can cause off flavors in your beer, i feel like the people that are choosing plastic are sacrificing making a better beer with no extra chemicals in it because you don't want to pay a little more... i just think that is sad, i don't have a lot of extra money that i can spend on brewing and i wont brew till i have the right tools to make it work

For a lot of us, it has nothing to do with cost. IMO, buckets are easier to handle, clean and get the wort/beer in and out, not to mention they won't send me or a loved one to the ER if one happens to break at the wrong time/place. Better bottles? Same hassles as with glass, but without the safety concerns. I have two glass carboys I never use anymore because it's just not worth the hassle. As far as getting off-flavors from plastic, that's a dubious claim, in my opinion, though I admit that I once bought into this fallacy way back when I shelled out the cash for the two carboys I have. I've since gotten over it and my life is better as a result. As far as long-term aging, corny kegs do the job perfectly and come with the added bonus that there is no need to transfer when aging is done.

 

[Braufessor]

For a lot of us, it has nothing to do with cost. IMO, buckets are easier to handle, clean and get the wort/beer in and out, not to mention they won't send me or a loved one to the ER if one happens to break at the wrong time/place. Better bottles? Same hassles as with glass, but without the safety concerns. I have two glass carboys I never use anymore because it's just not worth the hassle. As far as getting off-flavors from plastic, that's a dubious claim, in my opinion, though I admit that I once bought into this fallacy way back when I shelled out the cash for the two carboys I have. I've since gotten over it and my life is better as a result. As far as long-term aging, corny kegs do the job perfectly and come with the added bonus that there is no need to transfer when aging is done.

Well said - my exact reasoning for buckets as well. I also use kegs for long term aging.

 

[jpr0930]

For a lot of us, it has nothing to do with cost. IMO, buckets are easier to handle, clean and get the wort/beer in and out, not to mention they won't send me or a loved one to the ER if one happens to break at the wrong time/place. Better bottles? Same hassles as with glass, but without the safety concerns. I have two glass carboys I never use anymore because it's just not worth the hassle. As far as getting off-flavors from plastic, that's a dubious claim, in my opinion, though I admit that I once bought into this fallacy way back when I shelled out the cash for the two carboys I have. I've since gotten over it and my life is better as a result. As far as long-term aging, corny kegs do the job perfectly and come with the added bonus that there is no need to transfer when aging is done.

+1. The case against food grade plastics for fermentation is weak.

 

[Carrollyn]

I, too, come back every couple months to ponder glass carboy vs plastic buckets. I go back and forth. I use one, then the other. I like not having to pull the lid off to see what is happening inside during fermentation. I do 3.5 galLon batches, partly because the weight is more manageable for me. I've never dropped a carboy yet, but the thought makes me shudder. Because of the weight, awkwardness of moving them around and potential for catastrophe, I'm thinking about stashing the carboys and going straight buckets.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Even the need to pop the lid on a bucket doesn't really come into play with me. I have a chest freezer ferm chamber. To monitor and control the temp, I have a SST thermowell for the temp probe that I insert into the bucket lid grommet where the airlock normally goes. As a result, I don't use an airlock. I also don't bother snapping the lid closed. If I need to sneak a peak or take a gravity sample, just lift the lid and then set it back down.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Is there actually any evidence that food grade fermentation buckets leach "chemicals" into fermenting beer? By evidence, I mean tested in a lab under the same conditions you would encounter in fermenting beer...

I thought there was a thread a while back that talked about estrogen-like compounds in plastic or something like that...... but, it seemed that the conditions were much more extreme than fermenting some beer.

I know there are concerns with some types of plastic, under some kinds of circumstances - but is there any conclusive proof - or even a single "experiment" that has been conducted to substantiate any of this in relation to fermenting beer in food grade buckets??

Seems like it would be a cool experiment (real/controlled/lab setting) for one of the various podcasts to carry out. Or aha, or something.....

It was always my understanding that the whole BPA issue was more often caused by heating products in the plastic containers. I could have completely missed the point of the discussion because SWMBO and a chemist friend were talking about the BPA controversy and I was drinking beer. Not to mention the fact that (again, could have totally missed the whole conversation) that the BPA isn't extremely dangerous to adults, its mostly a danger to babies and younger people since their hormonal systems can get knocked off balance easier.

And, I am pretty sure, but, I don't think most of us give our beer to babies and teenagers.

 

[Carrollyn]

I'll betcha a person could pull the airlock out, lower a length of sanitized aquarium tubing down to carefully "suck" out a gravity sample and then stick the airlock back on.
The effort it takes to get the lid off annoys me and makes me jostle the bucket a little.

 

[jbaysurfer]

There's a lot of misinformation on plastics in this thread. People are either making stuff up completely, or just spreading something they heard. Don't trust the government, don't trust the companies...trust the science. Trust physics. I make fantastic beer. Just scored a 42 in a contest yesterday, and go figure...I did it in plastic. Approaching 50 batches and not a single infection....and I haven't grown breasts or a third arm either. Is everyone using glass to avoid the plastic boogeyman also using a glass sample taker? Stainless racking cane with no poly tubing attached? Gasp! God forbid you have an autosiphon!!!! Silicon tubing might get ya too! Ok...I digress.....

To each their own. I have no problem for people opting to go with glass, but I prefer better bottles for the weight difference and to avoid this (warning, graphic images in these threads):
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f85/carboy-brewing-accident-313454/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/im-switching-better-bottles-graphic-340281/

There's boogeyman danger, and theres proven danger. Plastic gives you one, glass the other. Please use a carboy hauler if you use glass.

 

[kitchenbeer]

There's boogeyman danger, and theres proven danger. Plastic gives you one, glass the other.

if you read those glass threads, glass is only dangerous if you brew drunk and do stupid things with it.

 

[Islandboy85]

You may want to check into fermenting in a keg. I love using a Sanke keg to ferment in.

 

[Brewsday]

Better Bottles and the "house brands" from sites like AHS and midwest boast BPA free (if you care). I know you shouldn't necessarily just categorically believe their hype but one mentions "anti-wetting". Well, I just bought 6 recently and was washing them and I could actually see the water "sheeting" off the sides when I dumped them. Even starsan foam had trouble hanging on (not my experience with glass carboys). Meanwhile while I retire my glass carboy collection, I had one that I thought looked pretty clean except for the thin line that was at the top of the fermenting beer (secondary). Being rushed and lazy, I threw 1/2 cup of bleach in and started filling with cold water. It was scary how green the water was from the very start. I thought it was clean but apparently there was a nearly clear film of residue (from dry-hopping?). Anyhow, I am hoping that anti-wetting works as advertised in real fermentation use. I nearly sliced the tip of my thumb off when my capper crushed a Sam Adams bottle...Another time I was moving growlers and bumped 2 together. One shard bounced down my thumb leaving 2 cuts above the knuckle and a reasonably deep cut on the knuckle. I then looked at the thread about glass carboy injuries...and decided to retire the fleet. But...do what you want! PS I also bought a good immersion chiller instead of no-chilling because I did not like what the hot wort did to the buckets...seems like a good opportunity to leach or even break and spill. 5 gallons of 200* wort on the foot isn't a pretty thought either.

 

[jbaysurfer]

if you read those glass threads, glass is only dangerous if you brew drunk and do stupid things with it.

Glass is only dangerous when it breaks. (but don't clink em TOO hard )

 

[kh54s10]

if you read those glass threads, glass is only dangerous if you brew drunk and do stupid things with it.

Glass is only dangerous when it breaks. (but don't clink em TOO hard )

Glass is only dangerous when it slices you to ribbons.

I wonder how many of the "disaster" posts with graphic pictures were brewer who had not touched a drop.

I read one where the brewer was cleaning, in his words, "very carefully" and just set the carboy down "gently" on a cement surface when it shattered.

They are heavy, get slippery and are just too dangerous for me. Drunk or sober!

 

[mike_in_ak]

I make fantastic beer. Just scored a 42 in a contest yesterday, and go figure...I did it in plastic. Approaching 50 batches and not a single infection....and I haven't grown breasts or a third arm either.

If you haven't grown breasts you're doing it wrong.

 

[ras07]

its still plastic if it scratches it can cause off flavors in your beer, i feel like the people that are choosing plastic are sacrificing making a better beer with no extra chemicals in it because you don't want to pay a little more... i just think that is sad, i don't have a lot of extra money that i can spend on brewing and i wont brew till i have the right tools to make it work

So don't scratch it. It's not at all hard to prevent scratches.

Has absolutely nothing to do with money for me ... I had three glass carboys, and after breaking one (stone cold sober, btw) I gave the other two away and paid good money for PET.

I'll admit I don't know everything about the health risks of plastic, but my life is filled with plastic ... if it wants to kill me, it's got plenty of opportunities whether I brew in PET or not. I've done enough research to convince myself that the health risks of flying glass shards are quite real, while the health risks of PET are, as far as I can tell, at most theoretical.

 

[ras07]

They are heavy, get slippery and are just too dangerous for me. Drunk or sober!

Amen to that. I'm a lot older, slower, and clumsier than I used to be ... and I was never that quick or coordinated to begin with. Glass carboys in my brewery is just asking for trouble.

 

[Nicegirl]

I prefer the glass carboys over the plastic bucket type of fermenter as I have had problems in the past with plastic buckets becoming not air tight. I had a wheat beer almost make a huge mess with blow off because the CO2 that developed from fermentation could not properly escape the bucket. The beer turned out great, but that incident was the second time it happened with a bucket so I'm not going to chance it anymore and use a glass carboy for all primaries.
The plastic carboys I've seen all have deep corrugations in the sides to add strength to the walls of the carboy and IMHO those deep corrugations would make it difficult to clean the carboy effectively.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I prefer the glass carboys over the plastic bucket type of fermenter as I have had problems in the past with plastic buckets becoming not air tight. I had a wheat beer almost make a huge mess with blow off because the CO2 that developed from fermentation could not properly escape the bucket. The beer turned out great, but that incident was the second time it happened with a bucket so I'm not going to chance it anymore and use a glass carboy for all primaries.
The plastic carboys I've seen all have deep corrugations in the sides to add strength to the walls of the carboy and IMHO those deep corrugations would make it difficult to clean the carboy effectively.

If you're guessing about that cleaning thing, you guessed wrong. The BBs are very very easy to clean. I have owned all 3 types and I use BBs exclusively now. The only downside to BBs which I'm surprised hasn't been brought up, is that they come in a 6G max size, whereas glass comes in a 6.5G size. Ironically, the reason I no longer own a glass carboy is because it slipped from my hands as I was cleaning it!

The rationale that you almost had a blowoff because somehow the non-airtight bucket didn't let Co2 "properly escape" is a head scratcher to me. Maybe I'm just not reading it right....C02 is a gas. Air is a gas. If they aren't airtight that decreases the chances of blowoffs, not increases.

 

[jbaysurfer]

its still plastic if it scratches it can cause off flavors in your beer, i feel like the people that are choosing plastic are sacrificing making a better beer with no extra chemicals in it because you don't want to pay a little more... i just think that is sad, i don't have a lot of extra money that i can spend on brewing and i wont brew till i have the right tools to make it work

There are no "extra chemicals" in my better bottle fermented beer. I would proudly stack my beer up against any brewer using glass carboys. And in fact this weekend I did. And my beer won. Better Bottles are considerably more expensive then buckets, so the cost savings is a bit off the mark as well.

I think it's sad that you seem to have passed judgement on people who use plastic when the science says your concerns are unfounded.

PS, I have (within reason) as much money as I need to spend on my hobby, and I've learned that spending more doesn't brew you better beer. It's about process, not whether you use glass or plastic for fermenting.

 

[LLBeanJ]

ps, i have (within reason) as much money as i need to spend on my hobby, and i've learned that spending more doesn't brew you better beer. It's about process, not whether you use glass or plastic for fermenting.

+1

 

[hunter_le five]

I'm surprised this is still a subject of debate. Bottom line, both options will make great beer. There are pros and cons for each, neither is "superior", and neither leech chemicals. It's just a matter of preference and tradeoffs.

 

[Brewsday]

Quick question...are there any cleaners that should NOT be used on Better bottles?

 

[jbaysurfer]

Quick question...are there any cleaners that should NOT be used on Better bottles?

The only time I've been able to get any cleaner residue/effect on a better bottle was when I was cleaning a fermenter and left it half full of oxy solution for over a week because I forgot about it and went on a business trip. I eventually just soaked it starsan for 20 minutes and used the rag trick (put a rag in with a tiny bit of solution and swish it around to contact all interior surfaces of the carboy) and it all came off. I don't use that one for fermenting anymore though, just for carrying water from the kiosk to my home brewery.

 

[andy6026]

This has likely been covered already in the thread, but I just cleaned my glass carboy for the first time - it took considerably longer and made my back a bit sore compared to cleaning a bucket.

I would break down the adv/disadv as follows:

1) Buckets are far more easy and less dangerous to deal with every step of the way.
2) Glass can always get cleaner since buckets can scratch and retain miscro-organisms.

3) With glass you can see in there which makes for both entertainment and possibly infection monitoring (you'll notice it sooner than with a bucket?).

For me, buckets have the edge.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

This has likely been covered already in the thread, but I just cleaned my glass carboy for the first time - it took considerably longer and made my back a bit sore compared to cleaning a bucket.

I would break down the adv/disadv as follows:

1) Buckets are far more easy and less dangerous to deal with every step of the way.
2) Glass can always get cleaner since buckets can scratch and retain miscro-organisms.

3) With glass you can see in there which makes for both entertainment and possibly infection monitoring (you'll notice it sooner than with a bucket?).

For me, buckets have the edge.

I would also add a small addendum to 1). If you are a home brewer like myself who rents a small-ish apartment (Wisconsin, so anyone from New York City, I appologize that you live in New York City) and having the bucket just makes that much more sense. When I'm not brewing/fermenting/anything beer related, I can place most of my equipment into the bucket (be careful not to slam and scratch stuff).

If/When I rent or buy a house in the near future I will be looking at a at least half finished basement to store my brewing gear and my for fermenting/bulk aging in carboys. For right now I'm stretching it just having the gear that I have now (minimal).

TL;DR: Buckets are space savers.

 

[MKBoitnott]

Most people don't bother with secondary there is like a gazillion posts on that.... just primary 3-4 weeks and your golden.. use that 5 gal carboy for some of Ed Wort's Apfelwein super easy to make... 5 gal's of apple juice and 2 lbs of corn sugar and a dry pack of Montrachet wine yeast... takes all of 15 minutes to make

Yea I have to second the secondary thing. Its probably not necessary.

The only thing with plastic buckets is to be careful not to scratch it. Scratches can harbor bacteria that can mess up the beer pretty bad; and they are hard to clean the scratches (edit: Andy60 said this above, but reiterating cant hurt...)

Good luck!

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

This has likely been covered already in the thread, but I just cleaned my glass carboy for the first time - it took considerably longer and made my back a bit sore compared to cleaning a bucket.

I would break down the adv/disadv as follows:

1) Buckets are far more easy and less dangerous to deal with every step of the way.
2) Glass can always get cleaner since buckets can scratch and retain miscro-organisms.

3) With glass you can see in there which makes for both entertainment and possibly infection monitoring (you'll notice it sooner than with a bucket?).

For me, buckets have the edge.

Im always confused about the buckets getting scratched, what the hell are you guys using to clean your buckets? Steel wool balls? Seriously just soak a bucket for 5 minutes and use a soft sponge and your bucket will be clean as the day you bought it.

 

[podz]

Im always confused about the buckets getting scratched, what the hell are you guys using to clean your buckets? Steel wool balls? Seriously just soak a bucket for 5 minutes and use a soft sponge and your bucket will be clean as the day you bought it.

Fairly easy for plastic buckets to get scratched. Cat decides to take a nap, kid decides to toss toys inside, wife does you a favor and throws your bottle capper inside, you drop a knife inside by accident while cutting something...

I will buy a plastic primary bucket soon - one with a lid and a hole for an airlock. I plan to keep the lid sealed on the empty vessel when not in use, stored somewhere in my basement where kids, critters, and wives don't normally roam.