General questions and concerns

[Kaingers]

I am on my 3rd extract brew and wanted to clear up some issues before I proceeded. In my first two batches I did not use a secondary fermenter, and it sounds like this is popular especially with Belgian Tripel's? What benefits do you get with secondary fermenters? Do you gain anything from letting a beer sit in a fermenter for longer than 10 days? If fermentation is complete whats the point?

I understand it is best to keep your beer in the range of 65-70 degrees when fermenting, what is the ideal temp to let a beer age and for how long? Can any beer just sit around in a bottle for months and not go bad, or only certain kinds of beers?

If you couldn't tell my next beer is going to be a Belgian Tripel. I had success with my first two brews and want to continue to improve. Thanks in advance for you knowledge and help.

 

[DubBrew]

I personally do not use a secondary at all and I get crystal clear beer with no off flavors every time. It can help clarify beer if that is an issue for you however it also increases the risk of infection. Just cold crash the primary down into the thirties to make every thing drop out post fermentation our even in your keg our bottles after carbing.

As for the time in bottles hop flavor will decease over time but a tripel needs to be aged and will do well with some time in the bottle.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

I only use a secondary on beers that are above 1.075ish or that I will be adding something to (chocolate, coffee, bourbon, dry hops, etc.).

Even though I don't use secondary, I do allow extra time in the fermentor before I bottle/keg. Almost all of my beers under 1.075 stay in primary for 4 weeks, then I bottle or keg and condition.

Secondary vessels are primarily for clearing your beer. It lets a lot of the yeast drop out so you have a cleaner, clearer beer when you're finished. It's very important though that you allow your beer to sit on the yeast for at least 3-4 weeks if you're not using a secondary (I do even if I am using secondary). The extra time gives the yeast the ability to clean up any off flavors they may have produced during fermentation.

I typically age all my beers at cellar temps (60-65F) and they're good for years. I've had some bigger stouts taste great after 4 years in the bottle.

 

[dcp27]

Do you gain anything from letting a beer sit in a fermenter for longer than 10 days? If fermentation is complete whats the point?

yes, by leaving the beer on yeast longer it allows them to clean up more of the by-products they make as well as conditioning the beer much quicker. just because they're done eating sugar, doesn't mean they're done working. 2 weeks is fine for smaller beers, but really every beer would benefit from at least 3 weeks in the fermenter.

 

[eljefe]

I do use a secondary, but my reason for doing so is that it frees up the primary bucket for the next batch. I have a Trippel and Northern Brewer's No. 1 sitting in secondaries now. These two have recommended aging time of several months before bottling and I simply do not want to hold off brewing another batch until I bottle them.

As for aging, keep them in a cellar or other cool place with minimal temp variation. Usually the higher gravity beers hold up well if not improve with aging. IPA and other hoppy beers tend to lose the hop flavor over time.

I recently had a Troeggs Mad Elf from three years ago and then one brewed this year and the older one was much better.

If you have a good bottle shop near by, I would recommend picking up a few good stout, barley wine, old ale, and strong belgian. Try to get popular ones that you can buy year to year. Store them somewhere cool and then next year buy another one of the same brand and compare the year old to the current one. Repeat again in another year. You will be surprised how the profile changes over time.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

IPA and other hoppy beers tend to lose the hop flavor over time.

While I do agree that IPAs taste more hoppy when you drink them fresh, I don't think you absolutely have to drink them right away. I've recently been convinced by a beer snob co-worker that IPAs taste incredible after a year or so of aging. The bitter bite goes away, which I can't stand. The hop flavor is still very good, just no bite.

My boss saved a bottle of IIPA that I made over a year ago and decided to crack it open a few weeks ago. I just happened to have one in my cellar also, so after his praise, I tried it again. It was one of the best IIPAs I've tasted lately and will definately be brewed in a 10 gallon batch so I can age half.

 

[eljefe]

My boss saved a bottle of IIPA that I made over a year ago and decided to crack it open a few weeks ago. I just happened to have one in my cellar also, so after his praise, I tried it again. It was one of the best IIPAs I've tasted lately and will definately be brewed in a 10 gallon batch so I can age half.

This is good to know. I was under the impression that the flavor goes away over time. I am an IPA fan but never aged them. I will give it a shot. I assume the IIPAs or Double IPAs would be better?

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

This is good to know. I was under the impression that the flavor goes away over time. I am an IPA fan but never aged them. I will give it a shot. I assume the IIPAs or Double IPAs would be better?

I'd think so. The higher alcohol would help them age better.

I didn't notice any flavor loss with this one, only the bite was lost. If you like that, then don't bother.

 

[Kaingers]

Thanks for the replies everyone. When I get back from my vacation I plan on brewing my tripel and letting it age in secondary for a couple months. At what time do I move the beer into the secondary fermenter from the primary?

I have a 3 week old IPA that is just now tasting right. I tried it at 10 days and it the carbination was not there yet. I can't to try one when I get back from my vacation.

I don't know about everyone else, but I really enjoy sharing my beer with friends and family. love this hobby!

 

[eljefe]

"I don't know about everyone else, but I really enjoy sharing my beer with friends and family. love this hobby!"

As one of your newly founded, long lost friend, I recommend you send bottles of current and future beers to me. Your pal, Jeff

In all honesty, my friends are not that into good beer so I mroe often than not consume what I make.

 

[Kaingers]

haha great to know I'm making friends all over the country! Jeff I will send you a bottle of my IPA when I get back into town later this month. What do you have bottled?

+1 with friends that drink sub par beer... some people have not developed their taste buds yet

 

[aidan]

yes, by leaving the beer on yeast longer it allows them to clean up more of the by-products they make as well as conditioning the beer much quicker. just because they're done eating sugar, doesn't mean they're done working. 2 weeks is fine for smaller beers, but really every beer would benefit from at least 3 weeks in the fermenter.

If you were going to cold crash for 1 week in primary would you leave it 3 weeks plus the additional week in the primary, i.e. 4 weeks?

 

[eljefe]

haha great to know I'm making friends all over the country! Jeff I will send you a bottle of my IPA when I get back into town later this month. What do you have bottled?

I actually keg my beer. I have a Phat Tire clone that is almost kigged and a Hopslam clone which is good. I can throw one in a Grolsh bottle if interested.

I have a Tripel in waiting, mayber in a week or two and then NB Number One which is about a month away.

 

[Kaingers]

How did the Tripel turn out eljefe? I'm going to brew mine this weekend!

 

[eljefe]

How did the Tripel turn out eljefe? I'm going to brew mine this weekend!

Going in the keg next week for the Superbowl. I'll let you know then.

 

[Kaingers]

Right on. I'm nervous about mine, first time working with a live yeast. Any suggestions?

 

[eljefe]

Right on. I'm nervous about mine, first time working with a live yeast. Any suggestions?

No need to really treat it any differently than dry yeast. Which one are you using?

 

[Kaingers]

Its Trappist Ale Yeast. I was told to take it out of the fridge a couple hours before I plan on using it? Do I shake it up and just dump it into the fermenter?

 

[eljefe]

Its Trappist Ale Yeast. I was told to take it out of the fridge a couple hours before I plan on using it? Do I shake it up and just dump it into the fermenter?

You will want to shake it very well. The yeast tends to clump together on the bottom of the vial. Shaking it helps to break it up. Make sure you open the vial slowly and re-tighten if you start hearing gas come out (like a soda bottle). If the yeast become active, they will start producing CO2. If you open too fast some of it will foam out - again like a soda. It probably wouldn't make a difference but it is one less thing to worry about.

If you have time, I would recommend a starter. It will allow the yeast to be fully active and multiple before being placed in the wort. What is the OG of the triple?

Thanks

 

[davesrose]

I understand it is best to keep your beer in the range of 65-70 degrees when fermenting, what is the ideal temp to let a beer age and for how long?

No, it's best to ferment at whatever temperature range is recommended by the yeast manufacturer: 65-70 is fine for some highly floculative ale yeasts...but it's not good for lager yeasts or yeasts like Notty.

Do you gain anything from letting a beer sit in a fermenter for longer than 10 days? If fermentation is complete whats the point?

So you only primaried for 10 days? If you do follow the "golden rule" on HBT about only primary: then you should do that for 3 weeks. The train of thought is that you're not just waiting for active fermentation to stop, but also letting yeast "clean up after themselves". Secondaries are a must, IMO, if you're infusing anything (coffee, oak, hops, fruit), or conditioning high gravity beer for several months.

 

[Kaingers]

Do I pitch more yeast when moving my beer into secondary? Or do I just move it into the new container and let it sit? Sorry for the newb questions, but I know this Tripel is going to take a while to age and don't want it to hold up my fermenter. Should I put a three piece air lock on the secondary as well?

 

[Stardust]

Do I pitch more yeast when moving my beer into secondary?

I would pitch more yeast. Use WLP099, it's a super high gravity and will dry up the beer a bit. Also add nutrients.

Sorry for the newb questions, but I know this Tripel is going to take a while to age and don't want it to hold up my fermenter.

Get yourself another fermenter and designate it for your strong ales. That way your lack of patience won't cause you to rush a beer that needs time

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

I would pitch more yeast. Use WLP099, it's a super high gravity and will dry up the beer a bit. Also add nutrients.

The whole reason people use secondary fermenters for extended aging is to get it off of the yeast. I could see adding yeast at bottling time if you're concerned about carbonation...but there's no need in the secondary.

The few extra points (if any) that you'd get from adding more yeast aren't going to make it noticeably drier anyway.

 

[Stardust]

The whole reason people use secondary fermenters for extended aging is to get it off of the yeast. I could see adding yeast at bottling time if you're concerned about carbonation...but there's no need in the secondary.

The few extra points (if any) that you'd get from adding more yeast aren't going to make it noticeably drier anyway.

I disagree. If the OG is 1.10+ then using a high alcohol tolerant yeast in secondary will dry up the beer. Using more than one strain of yeast is a technique than can be used, though I don't see it discussed often on HBT

 

[cms]

I do use a secondary, but my reason for doing so is that it frees up the primary bucket for the next batch.

It sounds like another bucket is in order, since the bucket, lid and airlock come in around 20 bucks.

Personally, I'm thinking the same thing so I can keep more going at a time. The only thing holding me back is my wife's reaction to the hobby. I brewed my first batch 12/28 and my second on 1/28 and I thought her eyes were gonna roll right out of her head. The funny thing is - she's mostly amazed at the quantities of beer. I'm more interested in having a nice variety on hand, although I do drink an awful lot of beer. If I start brewing more than one batch per month, she's going to stage an intervention or something!

 

[RiseAgainstMe]

It sounds like another bucket is in order, since the bucket, lid and airlock come in around 20 bucks.

Personally, I'm thinking the same thing so I can keep more going at a time. The only thing holding me back is my wife's reaction to the hobby. I brewed my first batch 12/28 and my second on 1/28 and I thought her eyes were gonna roll right out of her head. The funny thing is - she's mostly amazed at the quantities of beer. I'm more interested in having a nice variety on hand, although I do drink an awful lot of beer. If I start brewing more than one batch per month, she's going to stage an intervention or something!

Guess you need a new wife:cross: ha kidding...luckily for me my fiancee loves beer just as much as me.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

I brewed my first batch 12/28 and my second on 1/28 and I thought her eyes were gonna roll right out of her head. The funny thing is - she's mostly amazed at the quantities of beer. I'm more interested in having a nice variety on hand, although I do drink an awful lot of beer. If I start brewing more than one batch per month, she's going to stage an intervention or something!

Just imagine what she's going to say when you start making 10-15 gallon batches. I thought 5 was a lot, but then my friends kept asking for beer more often. I'm doing 10-12 gallon batches once or twice a month now. And...I wanna go bigger! This hobby is too addictive.

 

[dcp27]

The whole reason people use secondary fermenters for extended aging is to get it off of the yeast. I could see adding yeast at bottling time if you're concerned about carbonation...but there's no need in the secondary.

The few extra points (if any) that you'd get from adding more yeast aren't going to make it noticeably drier anyway.

+1, besides, belgian yeasts are plenty high tolerance as is. 099 is absolutely not needed for this

 

[Kaingers]

+1 on the addictiveness of the hobby! I will invest in another fermenting bucket, not sure where I can hide it so the wife doesn't find it! I am going to just let the Tripel sit for a month and not pitch yeast again. Thanks for the advice people.