Munich Helles Gavin's Mightily Malty Munich Helles

[CarbonTom]

Loved your write up. I've been meaning to do a helles, having only made marzens and dunkels for my germanic obsession. I think I will add this to the list after next weeks pils! Also, thanks for the water profile, been struggling to figure out what to do with mine for light lagers. Prost!

 

[Gavin C]

Loved your write up. I've been meaning to do a helles, having only made marzens and dunkels for my germanic obsession. I think I will add this to the list after next weeks pils! Also, thanks for the water profile, been struggling to figure out what to do with mine for light lagers. Prost!

Thanks for the positive words @carbonTom. Glad you found it useful. I too, have been a bit obsessed with Germanic beers lately.

The water here in my part of DFW seems to be well suited to brewing. This Helles was made with my tap water and additions as shown but when I brew it again I will cut it with RO water to bring the sulfate and chloride levels down.

Could be a case of, if it ain't broke etc... but I'm interested to see if it can improve things.

Been getting RO at $0.39/gallon at Walmart so it's hardly a big expense. ~$3 for 8 gallons and build to target.

 

[Gavin C]

I like Shiner Bock a lot for what it is, but calling it a "Bock" is an insult to Bocks. Anything you came up with would be almost guaranteed to have more flavor.

I've made this one before, and really enjoyed it:
View attachment 317417

That looks fantastic. Really like the simple grain-bill on that one. Beautiful copper color. Thank's for the recipe Hunter.

 

[HopHound12]

Beer is on on tap and I find it to be quite tasty but unfortunately I am getting a slight fruity aroma to it. I was originally not sure about it but now I feel like I might be able to taste it as well but maybe it is in my head. I believe it to be green apple-ish possibly acetylaldehyde?? Gavin could you describe to me what the aroma is like on the one you brewed?

Clearly this is not a recipe problem but possibly something with my technique. I believe I pitched enough yeast so I am really not sure what went wrong. However, the WLP yeast was about a month or so over the six month date but I did make the monster starter. I fermented for approx two weeks at 55 or until the airlock was pretty much done then raised to 67 for a few days then down to lagering temp for about a month. Unfortunately I do not remember if this flavor was or was not there prior to kegging it as I do not remember the sample. Could this possibly due to contamination in my keg or lines or maybe due to the older yeast even though I pitched a large starter? Thanks

 

[Gavin C]

Beer is on on tap and I find it to be quite tasty but unfortunately I am getting a slight fruity aroma to it. I was originally not sure about it but now I feel like I might be able to taste it as well but maybe it is in my head. I believe it to be green apple-ish possibly acetylaldehyde?? Gavin could you describe to me what the aroma is like on the one you brewed?

I'm rubbish at describing tatses and flavors. It is not something I have ever been able to do.

My Helles had a pretty minimal hop aroma if I remember well. If I can dig up the score sheets and see what they say in that respect I'll let you know. To me it just smelled like a light lager should smell. Sorry, told you I was rubbish.

Here is more information on what you may be smelling from the HBT wiki.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/acetaldehyde

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[ba-brewer]

I got a package today from a contest I entered a few months back and there was a blue ribbon my helles brewed with this recipe. Thanks Gavin.

I think one of the judges picked up the fact I did not use german malt but in general I think they liked it. I also got comments about some low level DMS even though I did a 90min boil with a very health boil off, hard to hide things in such a light beer for sure.

 

[Gavin C]

I got a package today from a contest I entered a few months back and there was a blue ribbon my helles brewed with this recipe. Thanks Gavin.

I think one of the judges picked up the fact I did not use german malt but in general I think they liked it. I also got comments about some low level DMS even though I did a 90min boil with a very health boil off, hard to hide things in such a light beer for sure.

Congratulations mate. Great Job. Thanks for being so through in posting the judges' feedback. That beer sounds delicious. Cheers!

 

[user 141939]

NB: The acid malt is needed in my setup as I utilize full-volume mashes.

I was wondering if you could tell me, does Bru'n water calculate your pH correctly for full volume no sparge mashes?

I ask because I just did by first one (usually I batch sparge) and the calculated pH was off by about 0.3. (my target was 5.4 and I got 5.08).

I've checked and checked my entry fields and I don't appear to have entered everything wrong.

Other than this one time, it has been very accurate for me.

 

[Gavin C]

I was wondering if you could tell me, does Bru'n water calculate your pH correctly for full volume no sparge mashes?
.

Yes. I find it to be a very useful too.

Typically, measured mash pH is within 0.1 of the predicted mash pH value per Bru'n Water.

 

[user 141939]

Yes. I find it to be a very useful too.

Typically, measured mash pH is within 0.1 of the predicted mash pH value per Bru'n Water.

I was hoping you would say no. Since this was first time I've been off, and just so happened to be the first time I did a full volume mash.

Perhaps it was something else then. I guess you find you need a lot more acidity when using full volume? This is what bru'n water was telling me as well, except I way overshot it.

Anyways, sorry to de-rail your thread. I've asked over in brew science but will need to ask again cause I got no response. Need to figure out why I was so off.

 

[Gavin C]

I was hoping you would say no. Since this was first time I've been off, and just so happened to be the first time I did a full volume mash.

Perhaps it was something else then. I guess you find you need a lot more acidity when using full volume? This is what bru'n water was telling me as well, except I way overshot it.

Anyways, sorry to de-rail your thread. I've asked over in brew science but will need to ask again cause I got no response. Need to figure out why I was so off.

No worries mate. Not a derail at all. Very relevant as I specified the full volume in my original post. Just be sure to adjust your mash and sparge volumes acordingly in Bru'n Water.

Some folks claim acid additions in the form of lactic or phosphoric acid will result in greater accuracy than using acidulated malt. I have not found that to be the case but that is very weak anecdotal evidence. I use a little acid malt in just about every brew save for something very dark and roasty.

 

[thrillhouse]

Thanks to the OP for this post. Looks delicious and I plan on brewing it this weekend.

Has anyone (including OP) built a profile for this beer from scratch with RO water? Was going to use acid malt for Ph and calcium chloride (a la the water primer for dummies), but given the rave reviews over the original recipe and its water profile, I'm toying with the idea of adding a little epsom salt.

 

[Gavin C]

Thanks to the OP for this post. Looks delicious and I plan on brewing it this weekend.

Has anyone (including OP) built a profile for this beer from scratch with RO water? Was going to use acid malt for Ph and calcium chloride (a la the water primer for dummies), but given the rave reviews over the original recipe and its water profile, I'm toying with the idea of adding a little epsom salt.

Thanks @Thrillhouse . I really enjoyed this beer and plan another rebrew after a recently brewed Pils is gone. When I do, I will use RO and build to a relatively softer profile as I have been doing lately with lighter beers. I think the sulphate is undesriably high and would follow @mabrungard 's suggestion from earlier in the thread to cut that back along with most other ions too.

I'm still very much exploring and learning water profiles. Here is a softer but similar profile i used with my Munich Dunkel. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Munich Dunkel Profile

 

[thrillhouse]

On the contrary, I think your post was very helpful! I particularly appreciate your comments about the sulfate. Thanks!

 

[mabrungard]

I find that most German styles benefit from a light mineralization. The Brown profile that Gavin used is more suited to ale brewing. Reducing the sulfate to less than 50 ppm is desirable, some would take it much lower than that and that is a personal preference. Having some sulfate helps dry the beer's finish and that is welcome in a Dunkel.

 

[UndeadFred]

I wish I would have seen this particular recipe last weekend! However what I worked out on my own from various recipes is so close to this I suspect that I'll have almost identical results. I came up with my own recipe based on two or three I saw and what I had on hand. I am amazed at how close it is to this recipe.

I did 9 lbs of Pils, 0.5 lb Munich, 2 oz Melanoidin malt and 5 Oz Acid Malt.

I started with RO, 5 PPM TDS 8.5 gallons. I added 1.5 tsp CaCl and 0.5 MgSO4. My pH at boil was spot on at 5.2 So.. I can say, at least in my case AJ's recommendation plus the small amount of Epsom Salt seemed to work okay. I did add a 1/4 tsp of cheap LD Carslon Yeast Energizer and 1/4 Yeast Nutrient and pitched a two step w34/70 decanted 2L starter .. around 350 billion cells. Took right off. Is looking good so far. Ended up with 6 gallons in the carboy, but a lot of break material. Should have a full five gallons to keg though so it is good.

The step mash I used was very close to the one recommended.

As long as you use a soft water profile but with some CaCl and Mg for the yeast I suspect you won't notice the difference. I'll let you know in 3-4 weeks... If you are a perfectionist you might also want to add a 0.5 tsp of Gypsum, but I think that is a "doean't matter".. really...

Fred

 

[Gavin C]

I find that most German styles benefit from a light mineralization. The Brown profile that Gavin used is more suited to ale brewing. Reducing the sulfate to less than 50 ppm is desirable, some would take it much lower than that and that is a personal preference. Having some sulfate helps dry the beer's finish and that is welcome in a Dunkel.

Thanks for the tips Martin. Brewing a Vienna or Dunkel this weekend and hopefully can put these pointers into good effect. Very much appreciated.

I am always scared to use any of the geographical profiles in Bru'n water. Other than "Munich (boiled)", I am not sure what the local brewers will have done to alter those profiles.

Rightly or wrongly I have tended to stick with color and balanced/malty/bitter as my guide. Hopefully as I learn more I will develop greater proficiency in target selection/tweaking.

 

[mabrungard]

The geographic profiles are very instructive...as long as you look at ONLY the flavor ion concentrations. Ignore the calcium and bicarb content, since that is going to need to vary to fit your brew. But those geographic profiles help illustrate the level of flavor ions that MAY have been applied to those original beers from those areas. If you compare those profiles, you will often find that they are typically lightly mineralized with respect to flavor ions. That is the message I want all brewers to absorb into their souls...don't overmineralize!

 

[Gavin C]

I find that most German styles benefit from a light mineralization. The Brown profile that Gavin used is more suited to ale brewing. Reducing the sulfate to less than 50 ppm is desirable, some would take it much lower than that and that is a personal preference. Having some sulfate helps dry the beer's finish and that is welcome in a Dunkel.

Unrelated to the Munich Helles in the OP.

Following on from your advice in this thread and elsewhere this is the water I built for yesterday's brew: a Märzen. I hope I've not gone too wide of the mark and it will contribute to a tasty beer.

Thanks again Martin for all your tremendously useful help.

 

[thrillhouse]

Thanks for all of the quick replies. Brewed this beauty yesterday with WLP940 (mexican lager yeast), pitched cold at 52 F. This morning I had a nice krausen and some airlock activity. Looking forward to the end results!

 

[specharka]

Hey Gavin,

I'm looking to take a stab at this style in a few weeks, and I had a lot of success with your altbier. What is the purpose of using the melanoiden malt? I've seen it used here and there and it seems like a substitute for a decoction mash schedule. Wouldn't that be more stylistically appropriate? Also, could you use an ale yeast (WY1007 or WLP029) to obtain the same character? I've got lager yeast on hand but I don't really want to tie up my keezer.

 

[Gavin C]

Hey Gavin,

I'm looking to take a stab at this style in a few weeks, and I had a lot of success with your altbier. What is the purpose of using the melanoiden malt? I've seen it used here and there and it seems like a substitute for a decoction mash schedule. Wouldn't that be more stylistically appropriate? Also, could you use an ale yeast (WY1007 or WLP029) to obtain the same character? I've got lager yeast on hand but I don't really want to tie up my keezer.

Great to hear you like the Alt.

Yes you're dead right on the melanoiden malt. I use a little in lagers when I am not doing a decoction. I am planning a rebrew of the Helles without the melanoiden and with a decoction. A decoction mash is certainly a traditional approach to making a Helles. It's fun to emulate these things I think.

Recent similar lager examples include two German Pilsners, one with melanoiden (similar %) and an infusion mash. One without melanoiden and a decoction mash. Both were very similar in appearance and malt flavor. I really enjoyed both.

Pils with Melanoiden

Pils without Melanoiden

On the yeast question, prior to this Helles I brewed one with WLP029 (the Kolsch yeast). I know it is a popular choice but I am not a fan of this yeast for lagers as the beer (at least to me) did not taste like a light lager should taste.

Despite fermenting the beer in the mid 50's with WLP029 there was a very clear floral component to the beer from the yeast. Not at all unpleasant but not what I want in a lager. Just tasted like a Kolsch.

In my view if you want a lager to taste like a lager you need a lager yeast. Particularly in a Helles where the subtle yeast derived flavors will not be hidden. The two Helles beers (lager and hybrid) were very dissimilar.

To each their own of course. Best of luck with whatever you decide to brew.

 

[specharka]

Great to hear you like the Alt.

Yes you're dead right on the melanoiden malt. I use a little in lagers when I am not doing a decoction. I am planning a rebrew of the Helles without the melanoiden and with a decoction. A decoction mash is certainly a traditional approach to making a Helles. It's fun to emulate these things I think.

Recent similar lager examples include two German Pilsners, one with melanoiden (similar %) and an infusion mash. One without melanoiden and a decoction mash. Both were very similar in appearance and malt flavor. I really enjoyed both.

Pils with Melanoiden

Pils without Melanoiden

On the yeast question, prior to this Helles I brewed one with WLP029 (the Kolsch yeast). I know it is a popular choice but I am not a fan of this yeast for lagers as the beer (at least to me) did not taste like a light lager should taste.

Despite fermenting the beer in the mid 50's with WLP029 there was a very clear floral component to the beer from the yeast. Not at all unpleasant but not what I want in a lager. Just tasted like a Kolsch.

In my view if you want a lager to taste like a lager you need a lager yeast. Particularly in a Helles where the subtle yeast derived flavors will not be hidden. The two Helles beers (lager and hybrid) were very dissimilar.

To each their own of course. Best of luck with whatever you decide to brew.

Thanks for the quick response. I completely understand where you're coming from -- I recently brewed a pseudo rauchbier with WY1007 in lieu of lager yeast, and though it is quite delicious, it doesn't really taste like a lager. I can see how much more prominent that difference might be with a less assertive grainbill.

I'm still hoping for a quick turnaround, so I might just do an extended cold crash around 40F and lager in my keg. What do you think of the following:

8 lb Pils
0.5 lb Vienna
0.5 lb Munich
0.25 lb Carapils

Decoction mash, rests at 130, 145, 156 & 168. 4.5 AAU Liberty @ 60 min. Ferment 10 days @ 48F, 4 day D-rest, fine & cold crash for 2-3 weeks. Transfer to keg and lager for another 2-3 weeks before tapping.

 

[Gavin C]

What do you think of the following:

8 lb Pils
0.5 lb Vienna
0.5 lb Munich
0.25 lb Carapils

Decoction mash, rests at 130, 145, 156 & 168. 4.5 AAU Liberty @ 60 min. Ferment 10 days @ 48F, 4 day D-rest, fine & cold crash for 2-3 weeks. Transfer to keg and lager for another 2-3 weeks before tapping.

I'd eliminate the protein rest.

I'd delete Carapils. I never see the need for it and typical use no crystal in my lagers. (exception being the ~1% melanoiden we discussed)

I get my lagers off the yeast and into the keg ASAP so would not be a proponent of your scheduling. I lager and carb in the keg. I don't use predetermined fermentation schedules but most lagers are in the keg at or near 2 weeks following pitching. Depending on the OG and yeast that timing will of course vary.

Plenty of ways to skin the lager cat but those are my thoughts for what little they are worth.

 

[wobdee]

Lately I've been liking a small amount of the lower lovibond Cara malts in my Helles instead of Munich or Vienna malts. A 96% Pils, 4% Carahell makes a nice Helles.

 

[ba-brewer]

Going to give this recipe a second try. I have some of the WLP835 German Lager X yeast so I am going to see how that works with this grain bill.

I bottled a couple bottles from the keg of the first batch. They sat around in the keezer a few months(6 month total lagering) still very nice.

 

[specharka]

I'd eliminate the protein rest.



I'd delete Carapils. I never see the need for it and typical use no crystal in my lagers. (exception being the ~1% melanoiden we discussed)



I get my lagers off the yeast and into the keg ASAP so would not be a proponent of your scheduling. I lager and carb in the keg. I don't use predetermined fermentation schedules but most lagers are in the keg at or near 2 weeks following pitching. Depending on the OG and yeast that timing will of course vary.



Plenty of ways to skin the lager cat but those are my thoughts for what little they are worth.

So I took your advice for the most part (kept the Carapils as I'd already crushed it), and it turned out AMAZING. Tastes awesome and looks great at 3 weeks! I did notice some DMS once I kegged the beer, but it dissipated within a week and now there are zero perceptible flaws. Just smooth, malty, crisp and clean. I don't know why people think light lagers are difficult to execute.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463176383.498697.jpg

 

[glick]

Brewed this recently.... It is delicious!!

Thanks for the recipe!

 

[Gavin C]

Brewed this recently.... It is delicious!!

Thanks for the recipe!

Great to hear that @Glick

Post up a picture of your creation if you get a chance.

Love me some lagerporn™

 

[schematix]

Don't hate on the CaraPils in a Pilsner or Helles style beer - that's where it's meant to be. The best Pilsner I've made to date actually used it at 11% and it was perfect (other 89% was pilsner). It adds a nice mild grainyness plus ridiculous head without any cloying sweetness.

In other styles I think there are better options though. Don't just add it for "head retention"!