Gas or electric?

[paledragon]

since we're on the subject, is the only difference between 100 and 200 amp service the panel? buddy of mine with 100 amp service has enough spots open for both a 240 and 120 breaker, and wants to go electric. i'm not sure about the stove, but the central air and dryer both draw quite a bit of current.

thanks for any help.

p.d.

 

[kydan47]

Pickles, I've got a setup that uses 2 3500 elements w/ 100 amp service on the house.

I had an electrician place a 2nd 70 amp box in the garage a while back and the electrician assured me that since I had a gas furnance, gas stove, and not much else on electric - that the 70 amp was not unrealistic.

I've since got my pid controller set up and heat up 50 gallons of water in a ss 55 gal drum, usually only running the 1 3500 until the 50 gallons gets up to the set temp.

I am then ready to mash in 1st thing, and after doughing in, I reset the pid to 185 for the sparge. If doing a step infusion, I flip both elements on.

I can heat up a 20 gal batch in 2 degrees a minute with both on. Each has its own gfi 20 amp breaker in the box.

Cheers,

KY Dan
LAGERS/FOSSILS

 

[kappclark]

Is anyone brewing all electric with less than 200A service? I have 100A main and have been contemplating upgrading service, maybe it'll be sooner than later. Besides Conpewter.

I have a 100A service...I guess I should upgrade to 200 if I want to go electric ?

 

[pickles]

since we're on the subject, is the only difference between 100 and 200 amp service the panel? buddy of mine with 100 amp service has enough spots open for both a 240 and 120 breaker, and wants to go electric. i'm not sure about the stove, but the central air and dryer both draw quite a bit of current.

thanks for any help.

p.d.

the way I understand it is that the real issue is the drop from the electric pole. If its only sized for 100A it does no good to install a 200A panel. If a certified electrician and your elec co. deem your drop to be suffeciant to handle 200A, the you car install a larger panel offering more power to use. However, placing subpanels ( which i have done in the garage and for a hot tub) only offer what your panel can supply. I installed a 50A subpanel in my garage to power a few tools, lights and a mig welder, knowing that for now i may be limited as to what i can "power" in the rest of the house if working in the garage. When I upgrade to a new service I'll be golden! Sorry for the long response.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Is anyone brewing all electric with less than 200A service? I have 100A main and have been contemplating upgrading service, maybe it'll be sooner than later. Besides Conpewter.

I have 200 amp service, and routinely use 2, 2000w 120v elements. Just last night I brewed a batch of my "local ale". While bringing my wort to a boil I got an emergency call, and had to leave the house for an hour. I decided to cut my power to the kettle to 2000w while I was out of the brewery. Upon my return i found my uninsulated kettle w/ approx 10 gallons bubbling away at a nice low boil.

Point of the story, don't assume you need mega power to utilize electric. w/ enough time, heating in coolers for sparge water, or possibly insulating the kettle, 2 circuits a 20 amps 120v will supply a lot of heat. Sure, more is better and faster, but less will suffice if you are patient.

Mike

 

[leboeuf]

Paledragon,
The limit of amperes to your house has to do with your neighborhood's power grid and the power company owned meter/etc.

It kinda stinks if you want to upgrade, cause it's technically the power company's equip, but for some reason, even if your meter is 60 years old and provides only 60 amp service (like mine), you have to fork over the 3-4grand for the service upgrade...

 

[Simphoto02]

First off it all depends on where you live.

I have gotten a service upgrade in Macon Ga a while back for 800.00.

IF you are handy and not afraid of working with electrical then it is not impossible to do MOST of the work yourself. Here locally I can get a "Home Owners Permit for electrical work" I did this when I built my garage and ran the power myself from the service panel in the house basement across the house and through the foundation and buried 24 inches to the garage and place a 100 amp panel in the garage.

Not difficult work if you take your time and know what you are doing.

Now a total service upgrade is a bit different but not much. First MOST utility companies will be happy to sell you more power IF they have it to sell at the pole that services your house. I got a permit, called the utility company. had them pull the meter. I then had them drop me TEMPORARY service outside. once that was hooked up I was able to run the necessary tools and beer fridge. Once the house service panel was "Dead" i began ripping out the Service or breaker panel. At the same time I was removing the meter base, mast and weatherhead from the outside. Replaced with a 200 amp meter base, ran new service cable to the new 200 amp breaker panel and proceeded to reconnect the circuits, making new ones and cleaning up old wire as needed. called and got an inspection, (PASSED) then utility reconnected to the pole and presto I was back in service.

Not a big deal.

Only question I have is How bad does the grains stink up the house if you cook em in your house on all electric?

Paledragon,
The limit of amperes to your house has to do with your neighborhood's power grid and the power company owned meter/etc.

It kinda stinks if you want to upgrade, cause it's technically the power company's equip, but for some reason, even if your meter is 60 years old and provides only 60 amp service (like mine), you have to fork over the 3-4grand for the service upgrade...

 

[conpewter]

As mentioned I do run with 100 Amp service. My dryer, furnace, water heater and stove are all natural gas so there is no large power draw there. The only big draw I can think of while I'd be brewing would be the air conditioner and the two refrigerators. I could cut the power to the AC while brewing, but I haven't needed to do that.

It would be nice to have 200 amp service, but I think it is very doable on 100 amp service, I wouldn't try it on 60 amp service for sure.

 

[Whiskey]

I just priced Blue Rino at the local Hardware store;
Blue Rino exchange for a 15# bottle (was 20# until the added fill limit float)
goes for $23.99 and this is 3.5 gallon not the old 20# 5 gallons.
Exchange with old style valve with "Blue Rino's valve and filled bottle $39.99.
Purchase a full Blue Rino bottle without an exchange $59.99.
At their BR exchange rate propane goes for $6.85 a gallon.
I'll stay with electric heating even with NG 5' away. A 200 amp
service is the bare minimum I can operate at with the house demand
plus double electric ovens not counting the Tig that can draw 131 amps alone when I put my foot into the heat control.

Just a PSA, if you have a ACE hardware near your house, most offer propapane refills for around $17, and you get the full 20#-5gallons.

It's the main reason my in-construction rig will be Hybrid, gas for the BK and a E-HLT.

 

[sjlammer]

I'm going to be using a 100A panel as well, and running off a 50A gfi breaker. Most of the time i will be running less than 25A per phase (leg).

If you have concerns about how many amps you currently draw, run around teh house and look at the information panels on your larger pieces of equipment.

My fridge is like 8 amps.
Window Ac unit is 5 amps
Gas stove = 0
gas hot water heater = 0
Kegerator = 5 amps
Dryer.... 30A? (well my gf isnt doing laundry that day)

 

[CodeRage]

I don't think you need anything more than 50 amps for a 10 gallon system or less. My house is 100% electric, I figure that if I don't use any of the range elements while brewing I wont have any problems. It' not unusual to have the range going with all 4 elements on and the oven kicking away, that is a butt ton of wattage. More than enough to boil 10 gallons.

So unless you want to weld, run a large air compressor, and bake while brewing a 100 amp service should meet your needs.

 

[pickles]

Yeah i think 100A will be sufficient for me. My range, furnace and dryer are gas.

 

[Simphoto02]

It shouldnt be a problem as long as you have room left in your panel. If your panel is full then you should probably upgrade. Though you could start adding mini breakers to free up some space.

This is not sound advice. Mini breakers are not the safest thing in the world. Because of their size they tend to heat up and trip more frequently. My electrician says that they should not be on the market in the 20 amp and higher rating. Just not a good idea. If you use them on circuits that u use alot they can fail faster.

Be safe and upgrade the panel with the help of the utility to make sure u have 200 amps to the meter.

We have strayed off topic a bit.

I am looking at the elements the High Gravity has. For 3 Keggles, what elements should I look at?

Are there issues with the elements and false bottoms? Can some of you show me pics of how you set up the electric elements in your HLT, MT and boil keggle?

What about a controller for the all electric system? What have you used?

I am torn between using electric, NG or Propane.

Will the new Propane bottles run a full brew session?

 

[The Pol]

Here is how I set mine up, there is also a parts list for the control panel.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

The panel, PID and SSR control heat.

The $8 install of the element in the BK

Parts to build a self contained heating element

 

[The Pol]

When I used to use propane, I could get 4 full brew sessions (5 gal) out of a single tank.

Each pound of LP will give you something like 22,000 BTU. So if you use a 100,000 BTU burner at full throttle to get things heated up, you can see how quickly it will go.

I really had no problems with using propane, except the empty tanks on brew day, the cost and all of the wasted heat blowing past the kettle an onto my balls. You need less BTU output with electric because it is actually being applied directly to the medium you are trying to heat. So, a 5500W element at 18,700 BTU output is much more effective than a 20,000 BTU propane burner would be. All of that heat that you feel as you stand next to the boil kettle, is wasted BTUs, energy, $$.

The downside to electric is that in the winter, you will still be cold, even in the garage. With propane, it will be 95F in a short time.

 

[The Pol]

You can see the SSR, the two 120VAC outlets to power the pump and HLT through the A419 here. You can also see the distribution block to split the 240VAC to all of the components, so that there is one 240VAC line in, and I can run 120VAC components from it.

The PID, is in the center. The box, ultra small... I dont recomend it.

Outside of the kettle

Back of panel showing the exterior mounted heatsink, (2) 120VAC switched outlets and the 240VAC switched and PID controlled outlet to the BK. You can see the 240VAC line running in to the bottom, our the top is the wire for the thermocouple in the BK.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Just a PSA, if you have a ACE hardware near your house, most offer propapane refills for around $17, and you get the full 20#-5gallons.

It's the main reason my in-construction rig will be Hybrid, gas for the BK and a E-HLT.

Whiskey; in my area be it Ace, Tru-Value, HD, Nob Hill, Safeway's all within 3 miles of me are 100% supplied by Blue Rino. They got the S.F. bay area locked up. They refill 40 miles east in the California central valley area. I know a couple delivery drivers as a 12 pack of stouts gets me a couple 20# empty old valve style bottles. They'll add the new float fill limit valves, rattle can paint the old bottles and jack up the prices. A outright bottle without exchange with a 15# fill is now at $59.99. I refill off a 50 gallon tank on my friends propane 4 barreled 440" 67 Dodge PU for full 5 gallon fills for my BBQ. Others I curb find now and then, cut them open making 2" half couplings building tire bead seating blasters for my trucker friends. One facility for motor homes and a industrial refill station will still fill the larger older bottles. As replied before i'm all electric brewing and only use propane for the BBQ plus refilling my propane hand torch bottles, this a big savings alone for those 14.5 oz bottles for camping, bearing heating or small copper pipe solder repairs.
As mentioned I have a NG pipe that is capped off at the patio 5' away from the brewing area. My gas brewing stopped 4 years ago this summer.

 

[BrewBeemer]

This is not sound advice. Mini breakers are not the safest thing in the world. Because of their size they tend to heat up and trip more frequently. My electrician says that they should not be on the market in the 20 amp and higher rating. Just not a good idea. If you use them on circuits that u use alot they can fail faster.

Wow and "Wafer breakers" got past the UL testing and still approved and available?
Pulling any breaker near its maximum amperage will generate heat that is their design, go over the rating they will trip. I have seen many older houses in my neighborhood, homes from the 1880's to 20's or 40's upgraded years ago and still loaded with all wafers, the main will be your limiting factor on this total high amperage demand. I pulled 131 amps by the Tig alone not counting 17 amps in the house and had bad VD due to the service drop for only 100 amps, the pig across the street is operating at only 65% so a 200amp service change cost me under $250 total with a loaded panel full of breakers. The city upgraded the service drop for my 200 amp service free.
Labors free, oops panel change then the permit and final the same day.
Fellow wireman my inspector. Riser prebent from my job site plus the wire drops.

 

[ftlstrings]

wait, now I don't know everything about eletricity, but it does seem unlikely to me that you got a venerial disease from your breaker box.:cross:

 

[kappclark]

I really had no problems with using propane, except the empty tanks on brew day, the cost and all of the wasted heat blowing past the kettle an onto my balls. You need less BTU output with electric because it is actually being applied directly to the medium you are trying to heat. .

I am thinking of going to electric for this reason -- some days up here are just too windy. I know I could make a wind screen/block, but electric will also allow me to brew indoors, safely (and quietly!)

 

[The Pol]

I am thinking of going to electric for this reason -- some days up here are just too windy. I know I could make a wind screen/block, but electric will also allow me to brew indoors, safely (and quietly!)

Do it, do it (Starsky? Hutch?)

 

[zinger084]

So I am not 100% on board here... I thought you couldn't/shouldn't boil with heating elements, only maintain sparge water, etc...

If not, what's the right size element for a normal 12 gallon boil? I have been doing some reading the past few days on electric and it seems like a good alternative to winter brewing. Whats the best place to find these elements (DIY or purchase)?

 

[The Pol]

So I am not 100% on board here... I thought you couldn't/shouldn't boil with heating elements, only maintain sparge water, etc...

If not, what's the right size element for a normal 12 gallon boil? I have been doing some reading the past few days on electric and it seems like a good alternative to winter brewing. Whats the best place to find these elements (DIY or purchase)?

Boiling with electric is like boiling with propane, there are no issues.

Id recommend 5500W, but some people get by with much less (2000-3000)

I bought my element at True Value for $18, I have a thread on how I "built it" and added it to the kettle.

It is pretty easy, but you will want a way to control it too, like a PID or sumpin