Full Volume BIAB...Low Mash PH

[BeerAddikt]

As the thread title says, I do full volume BIAB and have noticed that my mashes all measure around 5.0 PH, outside the ideal range of 5.2-5.5.

Based on most predictive calculations, doing full volume mashing should raise my PH, not lower it. Granted, I'm only using the PH test strips which I'm not too confident in, but it seems strange that my PH is so low doing a full volume mash. I also add half a campden tablet to my strike water a few minutes before I mash in.

I haven't had a chance to view my water report but it seems really strange that my PH would be so low. Could it be that my tap water is very low in alkalinity? My efficiency has been 70-80%, I get full attenuation and the beer tastes fine so I'm not too worried but curiosity is getting the best of me. Any thoughts?

 

[oujens]

Are you measuring at mash temp? I believe those strips are reported to read .2-.3 lower than the actual pH at that temp.

 

[BeerAddikt]

Good question. I've been letting the sample cool to room temp before measuring.

 

[Morrey]

I add 1/2 campden too and feel it provides insurance against chlorine/chloramines.

It sure would be helpful to have a water lab analysis so you'd have a starting point. I used Wards Lab and it gave me the data I needed to develop good brewing water.

 

[BeerAddikt]

I add 1/2 campden too and feel it provides insurance against chlorine/chloramines.

It sure would be helpful to have a water lab analysis so you'd have a starting point. I used Wards Lab and it gave me the data I needed to develop good brewing water.

Admittedly, water is the last part of my brewing process I need to nail down. I picked up a free water test kit from Home Depot that I'm going to send out. I'm not sure if it will have all the info I need and it will surely result in some sales rep giving me a call but it's free so I'm gonna give it a shot.

 

[bajaedition]

Accurately at 5.0 is not bad at all
I target 5.2 to 5.4 and have hard water so I normally am adding acid, what you need to do is add a mineral that is alkaline. ask your LHBS for what they carry that can raise the PH and all will be fine.

 

[bajaedition]

I picked up a free water test kit from Home Depot that I'm going to send out. .

be ready for 10 million sales calls about how they can treat your water. they do that because they want to sell systems. the results may be tied to a sales call conference at your home.

 

[Gavin C]

As the thread title says, I do full volume BIAB and have noticed that my mashes all measure around 5.0 PH, outside the ideal range of 5.2-5.5.

...I'm only using the PH test strips .. thoughts?

Your data is invalid. You pH is not that low.

1/2 Camden tablet can be ignored in this discussion. Not relevant.

The answer is simply bad data.

 

[BeerAddikt]

be ready for 10 million sales calls about how they can treat your water. they do that because they want to sell systems. the results may be tied to a sales call conference at your home.

I figured as much. In that case I'll give them SWMBOs cell phone number.

 

[BeerAddikt]

The answer is simply bad data.

So it's common for PH test strips to read too low? They are always 100% inaccurate? I just can't see myself investing in a PH meter.

 

[bajaedition]

I figured as much. In that case I'll give them SWMBOs cell phone number.

thumbs up

 

[Morrey]

So it's common for PH test strips to read too low? They are always 100% inaccurate? I just can't see myself investing in a PH meter.

My goal when I began learning brewing water chemistry was to invest in a quality water report, then use that data to plug into a program like Bru'n Water. Granted you wont earn a graduate degree in chemistry using a program, but you'll get darn good beer. From there you'll constantly be learning about water management and know what certain elements offer....and how to manipulate them for your own taste preferences. A $125 ph meter wont really be necessary if you just want to check behind a program. Typically water programs nail it pretty closely provided you input all values and grain bills correctly. I invested in a quality meter since I do lots of sours and constantly checking ph, otherwise I wouldn't have felt the need.

 

[oujens]

So it's common for PH test strips to read too low? They are always 100% inaccurate? I just can't see myself investing in a PH meter.

If you want accurate and consistent readings, you need to invest in the proper equipment. The brew science board shows why this is necessary.

 

[Weezy]

Ward Lab's test is pretty cheap iirc; like $30-40. It's worth it if you're serious about your water.

you could always try calling, or visit, your water company and see if they have the data.

 

[Yooper]

So it's common for PH test strips to read too low? They are always 100% inaccurate? I just can't see myself investing in a PH meter.

The cheaper pH strips are always inaccurate- I have some. But if you have decent quality pH strips (the colorphast ones), they generally read .2-.3 low.

Here's some info on that: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=363559

 

[Morrey]

Ward Lab's test is pretty cheap iirc; like $30-40. It's worth it if you're serious about your water.

you could always try calling, or visit, your water company and see if they have the data.

Plus 1. Ward Labs offers a "brewers test" that pretty well provides the necessary tests and values for brewing. These values are what water management programs such as Bru'n Water call for as your base water source on which adjustments are made. I consider a water report a valuable brewing tool and well worth the $ you spend which is less than a typical beer will cost you to brew.

 

[pshankstar]

Late last year I sent a water sample to wards lab for analysis. I also bought a PH meter and started using Bru'n water. Since inputing my water report into Bru'n Water and spending time adjusting the numbers it has been spot on. Now I rarely test my PH with my meter b/c the last few batches have been within .02 points from what Bru'n Water predicts.

Spend the time getting a good report from Wards Lab, don't bother with the Home Depot one. I did and it was a waste and did result in a lot of calls. Plus the person who returned the call wanted to sell me a water treatment system and didn't know anything about any questions I had regarding the water report. They just read the information to me.

So do your work, get a Wards Lab report, use Bru'n water spreadsheet, get a decent PH meter to check the occasional batch to make sure you're doing it right and you will be golden! Good luck! BTW, I use the free version of Bru'n water but have been curious to know what benefits I would get with the paid version of Bru'n water. It's been a great tool and I am trying to find out what benefits there are with the paid version to support Martin's hard work!

 

[Morrey]

Just rambling, but I have seen many brewers say they have been brewing for some time now and realize the need to "start" learning water management.

When a noob starts brewing as a hobby, they have tons of information to absorb and guidelines to follow. Most will have a checklist in hand to make sure they are following along correctly. In the meantime, with checklist in hand, the wort boils over in too small of a kettle (I used my wife's canning pot) and a mell of a hess is all over the kitchen (many start there on the stove). Everything is awkward and trails of sticky wort are all over the place. Yikes!

All this "process" needs to be figured out as well as sanitation, temp controls, where am I going to store this bubbling fermenter...all the stuff we are learning seems intimidating. Most mentors don't add water management into the equation....just yet anyway. Lets just make a beer and move on from there. Well, the first beer is ok but drank it way too soon and was disappointed. The next batch actually improved or was it my patience that was improved? Darn, lets move this shooting match outside and quit messing up the wife's kitchen. Ok I am getting pretty good at this, wow I like my new kettle, burner and cool shiny SS stuff. Oh yeah, I moved from extract kits to all grain. More to learn.

Finally, got all this "process" under control, beer is good but I think it could be better. NOW, lets get into water management. You are moving beyond the noob status...now its time to go back to grad school and figure out how to adjust water chemistry for "premium" results. This is a normal progression of events as we all grow and learn together as brewers. All good things come with time and patience, and water management will make your good beers become great beers.

 

[BeerAddikt]

Just rambling, but I have seen many brewers say they have been brewing for some time now and realize the need to "start" learning water management.

When a noob starts brewing as a hobby, they have tons of information to absorb and guidelines to follow. Most will have a checklist in hand to make sure they are following along correctly. In the meantime, with checklist in hand, the wort boils over in too small of a kettle (I used my wife's canning pot) and a mell of a hess is all over the kitchen (many start there on the stove). Everything is awkward and trails of sticky wort are all over the place. Yikes!

All this "process" needs to be figured out as well as sanitation, temp controls, where am I going to store this bubbling fermenter...all the stuff we are learning seems intimidating. Most mentors don't add water management into the equation....just yet anyway. Lets just make a beer and move on from there. Well, the first beer is ok but drank it way too soon and was disappointed. The next batch actually improved or was it my patience that was improved? Darn, lets move this shooting match outside and quit messing up the wife's kitchen. Ok I am getting pretty good at this, wow I like my new kettle, burner and cool shiny SS stuff. Oh yeah, I moved from extract kits to all grain. More to learn.

Finally, got all this "process" under control, beer is good but I think it could be better. NOW, lets get into water management. You are moving beyond the noob status...now its time to go back to grad school and figure out how to adjust water chemistry for "premium" results. This is a normal progression of events as we all grow and learn together as brewers. All good things come with time and patience, and water management will make your good beers become great beers.

You just described my progression in this hobby perfectly! Thanks for the advice everyone. I will go ahead and get a Wards Lab water analysis and go from there. Cheers!

 

[Morrey]

You just described my progression in this hobby perfectly! Thanks for the advice everyone. I will go ahead and get a Wards Lab water analysis and go from there. Cheers!

I should ask Ward for a referral fee.....LOL. Seriously, you have established the need for advanced information, so you are simply acting on it. It will be a slow process to fully learn, but the results will be evident from brew day one. And it keeps getting better and better! Cheers my friend

BTW-If you elect to try Bru'n Water program, there are multiple self-made videos on YouTube that walk you thru the program. Very helpful.

 

[TexasWine]

I just can't see myself investing in a PH meter.

I thought the same thing for a few years until I got mine this weekend. I bought one for a couple of reasons.

The first, and probably the biggest reason, is that I wanted to know the DI pH for a bag of malt I had purchased. The info wasn't available on the malt analysis sheet so I had to measure it myself. I enter the DI pH into the pH calculator instead of relying on the programmed assumptions based on malt color. And the reason for doing this is that the DI pH of malt can vary from lot to lot, year to year. I've had my predicted/calculated pH change by 0.1 just by entering the correct DI pH.

The second, more minor reason, is that I've started using sauergut to acidify the mash. To know how much to acid is in the sauergut, and therefore how much I need to add to the mash to hit my desired pH, I need to perform a titration. I wasn't seeing a drastic color change with said titration, so I bought a pH meter to observe when the pH breaks instead of relying on the color change.

For me, just knowing more about what's going on with my brew day was worth the money spent. I went a few years without one but wished I had bought sooner.

 

[berndawg84]

As others have said, a Ward labs report is good. You can also just buy some RO or distilled water for cheap for every brew and then not have to worry about your water makeup. Figure out what water profile you want and then just build it up from there. Between salts and some phosphoric acid you can get the ph to whatever you want.

 

[owmatooth]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G5BLJ20/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I bought something similar to this for one of my kids science projects a year or two back. I tested it against the standards they sent and drinking water and it seemed fine. Didn't think i needed it, so i gave it to her science teacher at the end of the project, but at about $19 on amazon, seems at least as accurate as the test strips.

ps. if the link doesn't work, i'm talking about one of the many digital ph testers on amazon under $20

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I thought the same thing for a few years until I got mine this weekend. I bought one for a couple of reasons.

The first, and probably the biggest reason, is that I wanted to know the DI pH for a bag of malt I had purchased. The info wasn't available on the malt analysis sheet so I had to measure it myself. I enter the DI pH into the pH calculator instead of relying on the programmed assumptions based on malt color. And the reason for doing this is that the DI pH of malt can vary from lot to lot, year to year. I've had my predicted/calculated pH change by 0.1 just by entering the correct DI pH.

The second, more minor reason, is that I've started using sauergut to acidify the mash. To know how much to acid is in the sauergut, and therefore how much I need to add to the mash to hit my desired pH, I need to perform a titration. I wasn't seeing a drastic color change with said titration, so I bought a pH meter to observe when the pH breaks instead of relying on the color change.

For me, just knowing more about what's going on with my brew day was worth the money spent. I went a few years without one but wished I had bought sooner.

I assume this is the LODO mash pH sheet? Have they started with a grain DI database yet? Seems like a useful thing, for average values if noting else, since it will vary slightly by lot/year.

 

[TexasWine]

I assume this is the LODO mash pH sheet? Have they started with a grain DI database yet? Seems like a useful thing, for average values if noting else, since it will vary slightly by lot/year.

Actually, I'm still using Brewer's Friend for pH prediction.

Haven't heard anything about starting the grain DI database yet. I agree, it'd be very useful.

 

[BeerAddikt]

As others have said, a Ward labs report is good. You can also just buy some RO or distilled water for cheap for every brew and then not have to worry about your water makeup. Figure out what water profile you want and then just build it up from there. Between salts and some phosphoric acid you can get the ph to whatever you want.

I've actually considered using RO water and building my profile. I was curious about using the "Glacier" fill it yourself bottling machines (http://glacierwater.com/) and filling my 5 gallon jugs. It says it uses RO filtration but there's also carbon filtering and a few other processes and who knows how well they're maintained, so it seems a little unpredictable. Does anyone use this type of water?

 

[hottpeper13]

So it's common for PH test strips to read too low? They are always 100% inaccurate? I just can't see myself investing in a PH meter.

How do you make a peach Berliner without one?

 

[TexasWine]

I've actually considered using RO water and building my profile. I was curious about using the "Glacier" fill it yourself bottling machines (http://glacierwater.com/) and filling my 5 gallon jugs. It says it uses RO filtration but there's also carbon filtering and a few other processes and who knows how well they're maintained, so it seems a little unpredictable. Does anyone use this type of water?

I use a machine inside my local grocery store, which should be nearly identical to this glacier machine. If you're gonna go that route I'd suggest buying a cheap TDS meter to make sure it's being maintained properly. The machine I use is maintained very well and always reads no more than about 5 ppm TDS.

HM Digital TDS-4 Pocket Size TDS Tester Meter with 0-9990 ppm Measurement Range , 1 ppm Resolution, +/- 2% Readout Accuracy https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002T6L5M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[BeerAddikt]

How do you make a peach Berliner without one?

PH test strips (which apparently suck) and taste buds...

 

[oujens]

I've actually considered using RO water and building my profile. I was curious about using the "Glacier" fill it yourself bottling machines (http://glacierwater.com/) and filling my 5 gallon jugs. It says it uses RO filtration but there's also carbon filtering and a few other processes and who knows how well they're maintained, so it seems a little unpredictable. Does anyone use this type of water?

These machines in my area are usually serviced every two weeks. For the most part, I've had good success with average 3-8 ppm. Recently they haven't been serviced in a month, but that is the same for all machines in my area. I'm curious if it's related to a recent chlorine treatment. I got 25 ppm, but seemed to work okay anyway. Get a TDS meter on Amazon for $10 and you can verify yourself.

 

[jan_b19]

For a good estimate grab the latest water report from your town online. use bru'n water and input a grain bill from a recipe you used.