Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout clone (2011 HBT Competition Category 21 winner)

[hop_head76]

I hit 1.084 using about 0.5 lb less 2-row, but all the other grains. The byo OG seems to be just a bit off, it is supposed to be 8.3% ABV, not 7.5% like they say.

So you liked the way this brew turned out? Did you do a side by side? I know I saw someone said they did. I'm anxious to make this beer cause I love the real thing and it would be gratifying to make it myself I'm just blow away by the amount of dark roasted malts. I have never brewed a stout with such a high quantity. I definitely want to avoid the "it's roasty" reaction when that's not what I recall at all about the real thing.

Also I agree with you on the byo being off not only was the og off but my ibus calculated way lower than 60 so I'm going to have to bump up those additions.

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

 

[Brutus Brewer]

I am brewing this tomorrow and didn't have time for a starter so I plan on pitching 2 smack packs. Is my lid going to blow off?

 

[mikeho]

I am brewing this tomorrow and didn't have time for a starter so I plan on pitching 2 smack packs. Is my lid going to blow off?

2 smack packs should be fine, its not as much as two packets of dry. I've never had my lid blow off but I have had beer come out the airlock and end up on the floor so having a blow off tube ready would be a good idea.

 

[mikeho]

So you liked the way this brew turned out? Did you do a side by side? I know I saw someone said they did. I'm anxious to make this beer cause I love the real thing and it would be gratifying to make it myself I'm just blow away by the amount of dark roasted malts. I have never brewed a stout with such a high quantity. I definitely want to avoid the "it's roasty" reaction when that's not what I recall at all about the real thing.

Also I agree with you on the byo being off not only was the og off but my ibus calculated way lower than 60 so I'm going to have to bump up those additions.

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

I like this beer and I think its pretty close to the real thing. Because its a coffee stout I don't think it needs a ton of bittering hops because the coffee and dark chocolate add some bitterness. As far as the roastiness, that pretty much defines a stout so I think you would miss that if you cut down on the roasted malts.

 

[ShadyLane]

No one has mentioned anything about the Willamette hops being doubled from the original recipe. Going to brew today with the half oz additions rather than 1 oz. each. I'd suggest "brewing" the coffee in the wort after it's cooled just below 200. 193 would be ideal. Any hotter and you can count on over-extracting the coffee, resulting in off flavors (burnt, overly bitter, sour).

One possible reason for the hop bump up may be if you plan on using coffee in cold press form. Cold press coffee lacks the bitterness of coffee brewed with heat.

 

[mikeho]

For what it's worth, some of the feedback I got on this beer from the HBT comp was that there was no detectable hop aroma, and one of the judges felt it was overall too sweet, and that it could use more bittering hops. This was the version with 1 oz of Nugget at 60, 1 oz of Willamette at 30, and 1 oz at 0. I do think that one reason I changed the recipe from the original is that back in the day I didn't have a scale, so I made things easier by going with round numbers.

 

[Brutus Brewer]

I brewed this 5 weeks ago, and the beer was in the fermenter for that entire time. I bottled this morning and the gravity was 1.036 starting at 1.086. I'm not sure if it's done or not as the OP finished at 1.024 and now I fear bottle bombs. Should I dump back in the fermenter and let it ride a bit longer?

 

[mikeho]

5 weeks should be long enough, but 1.036 is pretty high. Is it possible your OG was higher than 1.086 or did you lose some yeast to blowoff? If the gravity hasn't changed over a few days, it's probably done. Did you do all-grain or extract?

 

[Brutus Brewer]

5 weeks should be long enough, but 1.036 is pretty high. Is it possible your OG was higher than 1.086 or did you lose some yeast to blowoff? If the gravity hasn't changed over a few days, it's probably done. Did you do all-grain or extract?

This brew was all grain.

It's possible the OG could've been off as I was pretty drunk by time this was done boiling and forgot to take an OG reading. I had the pre boil gravity and pre and post boil volumes so I used the Bg*Bv=Eg*Ev equation to estimate the OG.

 

[Chug]

I kegged this about a week and a half ago and it is phenomenal!! Mine has a bit more body than founders breakfast stout and a little more coffee forward but that is not a bad thing at all. I followed the BYO recipe but skipped the second coffee addition, although I did dump nearly everything into the fermentor from kettle which probably explains the coffee presence. Will brew again!

Also, this was my first time kegging and am pretty sure I overcarbed a tad, which explains the monster head still present halfway through the glass below.

 

[jjbrew]

I brewed this last night I put in 2oz of Bakers chocolate and 2oz of nibs. I steeped 2oz of Sumtra for 8min. I used some wheat instead of all the oats due to not having enough oats. I also changed yeast to a 1098 that I made a porter with in the fall. I plan to soak 3oz of oak chips in Knob Creek and add those to the secondary along with the cold brew of Kona coffee. I will add 4oz of knob at kegging. OG was 1.085 hope it will finish at 1.027. only time will tell. Let you know in 4weeks.

 

[louisbrew]

Ok so I just about have finished off a couple cases of this clone. It's freaking awesome!

I followed the op recipe to the T except for 2 lbs of 2 row instead of dme and fermented for 25 days. Fg was right at 1.020 on this one. Lots of mouthfeel from the oats that faded a bit once I carved this up. It was really nice. I did some taste tests against the original and all tasters favored mine.

I did hot steep vs cold steep the 2 oz of coffee I added to the bottling bucket. Next time i am going to try old steeping. I find it a little more bitter/harsh due to the hot steep. I also might try adding all coffee additions post boil or backing off the bittering hops additions.

Founders is definitely slightly smoother and less coffee bitter and over the top as mine. It didn't last 3 weeks so I can't say how it ages. I will have to find out next time I rebrew. Great beer.

 

[thadass]

Brewed this about 3 weeks ago, bottling about 1 week from now.

Bumped the recipe up to 6 gallons since I had room in my primary for it and if I'm brewing this, I want as much as I can get . I also do BIAB like OP. I do it in my 8gal kettle and do a dunk sparge in a bucket. I don't like going over 12lb of grains so with 5lb of specialties, I used 7lb of 2-row, and then needed an additional 4lb of DME to get to the correct OG.

OG was 1.088, a bit high, maybe got some slightly better eff. than expected even with the big (for me) grain bill. Gravity has stabilized in the fermenter at 1.025, which gives me an ABV of about 8.35% where the actual FBS is 8.3%. not too shabby!

I went the route of the higher IBU, around 55-60 using Nugget and Willamette.


The other main consideration, of course, is the handling of the coffee and chocolate.

For the chocolate, I used 2.4oz of regular ole Hershey's cocoa powder and 3oz of a Ghirardelli 100% Cocoa chocolate bar. At 15min remaining in the boil I poured a bit of the boiling wort into a bowl over the chocolate bar, which melted it very well. Then at 5min remaining I put both the cocoa powder and melted choco-wort in the kettle.

For the coffee, I put the first dose (2.4oz for me) of the ground coffee in a nylon bag in the wort while it was cooling, for about 10 minutes. I had hoped to cool the wort to about 195ish, put in the coffee and let it steep for 5min, and then take it out and finish cooling. It cooled faster than I expected so I put the coffee in at 185 degrees and left it a little bit longer.

Plenty of choices to be made for the 2nd dose. Cold steep in primary? Rack to secondary and steep in there? Brew it hot like OP and add it at bottling, or cold steep externally and add at bottling? I Sure as heck don't want to risk infection or bottle bombs, especially with the cost of this recipe, so I'm somewhat adverse to anything that involved just grinding up some beans and chucking them in my beer. I want the extra complexity and mellowness of cold-brewed coffee, though, so I thought I'd look into what would happen if I boiled coffee that had been cold-brewed and found this thread over at the BN http://bit.ly/ZfUxHs . Seems like it'll give me the best compromise, so here's my plan: Cold brew beer the day prior to bottling day. Then on bottling day very briefly boil the filtered coffee along with priming sugar and then cool, add to beer, bottle, etc. Really just a slight modification of how OP did it.

At 10 days in the fermenter, the smell was ALL coffee. Taste was strongly coffee as well. Today at 20 days, the coffee has subsided quite a bit and the chocolate is coming through much more now.

Very excited for this brew. It's my 7th brew and I think maybe the first one SWMBO is truly exited to drink as well. She'll kill a bomber of Lagunitas Cappuccino Stout any night of the week, so this is definitely her kinda beer as well. I'll post an update in a month or two with how the overall profile came out. Hard for me to compare it to the original and steer my process towards replicating it, since I've never had it and can't get it out here, but as far as complexity and deliciousness goes... keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[mtnagel]

I need to know what you guys think about this. I brewed this recipe as my first BIAB attempt on 3/23. I transferred to secondary two weeks later on 4/7. I plan to do the coffee in secondary on 4/21 and bottle a week later on 4/28 so it will have been in primary 2 weeks and secondary 3 weeks.

My local homebrew club is having a competition (just found out so I couldn't have planned better). I've never entered a competition before, but I'm curious what professional judges think so I'd like to enter it, but it will be just under 2 months old when it's judged on 5/18. I know it's been posted to not even try this beer for several months. So is it stupid to enter this beer? Will I not get anything valuable from it? Note it's free to enter if that matters.

 

[mikeho]

You may find that it won't be fully carbed if you bottle 4/28, and drink it 5/18. Depends on your gravity, but higher abv beers tend to take longer to carbonate. I would try to give it at least 4 weeks for bottle conditioning, if you can. That would mean bottling 4/20. You can try brewing the coffee in the amount of water you would normally use for dissolving the priming sugar, (assume some loss due to absorbtion), then mix in the priming sugar, then bottle. I have done that and it seemed to work well. Alternatively, you can go with your schedule, but you may get dinged some points for under carbonation.

 

[mtnagel]

It did drop to 1.017 from 1.071, so hopefully it will be carbed in 2.5 weeks.

Maybe I'll add the coffee today, bottle in a week and then it will have just about 3 weeks to carb depending on when they put it in the fridge because I have to drop it off on Tues 5/14.

 

[doomXsaloon]

Don't really know. I make mostly IPAs, so I mash low, so probably out of habit. I figured the oats would help with mouthfeel. Probably would be more accurate to mash at 155.

Low mash temps (148) are better for IPAs??

 

[mikeho]

From what I've read, IPA should be dry, mashing low helps it ferment out, for a more malty style like Scotch ale, or stout, mash high. Some people even add corn sugar to dry out an IPA.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Well, I made the AG version of the BYO recipe today. I mustve been off my brewgame today, or preoccuppied. I ended up with to much preboil water and thus, my OG was low when the boil was done at 6 gallons. Upside? I had 1.060 going into the fermenter at 5.75 gallons. More beer!! And next time im gonna put the cocoa nibs in a hopbag to keep them from clogging things. The smell was amazing!!

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Bottled yesterday, FG had been sitting at 1.012 for two weeks. It tasted pretty good and had sat in the primary for 5 weeks total. Its jus been a busy summer. Steeped the Kona in 190 water for 20 min, and added that and priming sugar at bottling.

 

[nickmv]

Reviving this thread. I brewed this on Friday, and followed the recipe, minus the Fuggles (used Magnum instead -- the textbook bittering hop), and I contained the coffee and nibs within a 1gal strainer bag which I steeped and squeezed for 8 mins after flameout before removing. Used 100% cacao baking bitter chocolate (from Fresh Mkt).

I took a sample after about 50ish hours and it tastes absolutely delicious. Now, that being said, I don't notice much coffee flavor, but again, I brewed it Friday afternoon so that may take some time. I definitely could taste the roasted and choc malts, as well as the chocolate itself. I expect after primary, that the coffee will come through a bit more. Plus, there's coffee to add at kegging anyways. It's going to be absolutely amazing, I can tell.

 

[m3n00b]

Brewed partial mash of this yesterday, How long should one let it bottle condition before drinking?

 

[sacrifice]

Did this one again today - OG was a bit low because of an unusually low efficiency (67.9%) and a bit too much wort after the boil. Did a roaring 72 minute boil to get rid of some liquid and thought I got it right, but I probably should have gone another 15 -20 minutes to hit my water mark. Oh well.

Added some great Valrhona cocoa powder, cocoa nibs, and 4.5 oz of coffee grounds. Both were added at flame out as I did last time and as I always do with chocolate and coffee additions. Even with the few minor issues, a sample of the wort was quite good, and I believe that this should be another nice beer in 5 -6 months or so.

 

[mtnagel]

So you don't do any coffee or chocolate additions after the flame out ones? None in secondary? Interesting.

 

[m3n00b]

Wow this one takes 5-6 months. Ugh

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

It might be at its best by then, but it prob wont last til then lol

 

[sacrifice]

Wow this one takes 5-6 months. Ugh

I say 5 - 6 months due to my former garage and brewing area being between 50 and in the summer 60 degrees (in Alaska). Things simply took longer at those temps - carbing sometimes took months. I now live in the lower 48 and my garage is in the mid to upper 60's, so I plan on cracking a bottle a month after bottling to see how it is, and if not done, then cracking another bottle every month after that.

mtnangel - I make a few beers with coffee in them, and a few with chocolate and coffee - I always add at flameout and never after - I have always had the full flavor come through. I am not a fan of secondaries and secondary additions with the exception of when I have to dry hop. I think there are a lot of good ways to add coffee to a brew, I just like doing it this way.

 

[mtnagel]

mtnangel - I make a few beers with coffee in them, and a few with chocolate and coffee - I always add at flameout and never after - I have always had the full flavor come through. I am not a fan of secondaries and secondary additions with the exception of when I have to dry hop. I think there are a lot of good ways to add coffee to a brew, I just like doing it this way.

That's cool. I don't secondary all that often either. You could always add the coffee into primary too. I do that will all dry hopping now.

 

[ApertureBrewing]

What would happen to this recipe if you left out the 9 oz. of debittered, black malt?? (and by left out I mean they didn't have any and I forgot to add my 9 oz of Carafa III)

 

[rgauthier20420]

Couple questions about the cocoa nibs and coffee beans at flame out. I'm assuming we're talking crushed and not ground ingredients since everyone seems to put them in a strainer bag. Is that right?