Foteck SSR's @*^^?&#! JUNK

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Esmitee

Esmitee

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Ok, so last night, after about 1 year of building my new system, I finally fired up my new 60 amp control panel.
As being brand new to electric brewing, I wanted to see how long it would take to heat 10 gals of water to 168 f from my tap temp of 52f. Well, I was impressed to see how that 5500 watt element was making that temp climb in the 1st few minutes and see the bubbles from the element. I decided to take notes on how fast the temp climbed. S0 I did note the times for every 10 degrees of rise. Well, at only 21 minutes into the 1st use of the 40 amp Foteck ssr, I heard a "POP" and then a could of stinking smoke poured out of my panel!. I have a fan the pushes air directly over the ssr's and man, SMOKE was coming out of every little opening of my box.
I slammed the Estop down an killed the elements, then shut off the GFCI breaker and unplugged it. Man it STINKS!!!
I kinda was hoping it was that Foteck ssr and not any wiring ! I opened the box up, and yep, the SSR melted down. nothing else was damaged. I was very happy about that.
Funny though, the GFCI breaker did not trip, nor did the 30 amp breaker for the element inside the panel, blow either. I'm guessing it's because that the crappy FOTECK failed in the latched position?
Actually, I'm not surprised because I have read a lot about the counterfeits out there and I knew the 2 I have were
counterfeit. I did not buy them, got them with the 2 TA7's I bought.
But wow, 21 friggin minutes to meltdown! BTW I was only pulling 23 amps when the melt down happened.

now I'm going the get 2 new good SSR's.

Anyone know if these are any good, before I order new ones?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SSR-Solid-...m=162856875640&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
 
Yep, Foteks are junk. I'm not sure about the units you cite from ebay. They look like they would also be easy to be cheap. Get Opto22 or Crydom SSRs if you want more reliability.

Be sure to get 40a or higher in order to provide your system with a little more margin between demand and capacity.
 
Also make sure that the SSRs are adequately heat-sinked. I use a large heatsink and a fan on each heatsink when I'm running close to the capacity of the SSR. Never had a problem with the Foteks, but I use all 40A SSRs (I tend to over-engineer everything).
 
A popped SSR shouldn't really blow the GFCI or breaker. It likely went because it wasn't adequately cooled, and when it does go it doesn't satisfy the conditions to trip a GFCI, and as long as it doesn't short hot to neutral or ground it won't cause a draw that will blow a breaker. It should be hard for it to cause that short. Popping the SSR is like simply cutting the wire, electricity just stops flowing.

How big of a heat sink do you have? Where is it? Inside or outside the box? Did you use thermal paste? You mention a fan, but not where it's located. Heat is the enemy of all electronics, especially something that is switching large power levels.
 
I've used Foteks for several years without an issue during normal use. Adequate heatsink and slight overrated comparing to my load. Maybe I've just been lucky. I melted one though after shorting my herms-element once.
 
I believe the real Foteks are quite good. That's why the counterfeiters use that brand name. But how does one tell from a picture on an internet add? Mine fried in no time.
 
Theres like 5 or 6 threads at least on this very topic. yes foteks are almost all generic clones and you can buy them for as little as half a cent in bulk on alibaba...

That said I see no mention of if a heatsink with thermal paste was used... without one chances are damn good it will fail violently.

I still have one of the first fotek 25amp ssrs in my current panel now and the other one is in my old panel sitting in my attic... years of use and no issues. that said its a totally random draw where they come from and how well they are made since multiple manufacturers make the same thing. they are also cheaply made. Some use only components rated for 10a. (there are youtube videos of teardowns to show this.) you can order the fotek clones with any brand name you want. Ebrew supply used to sell them before he switched to auberins manufacturer (see below) and inkbird appears to use them as well as mypin and some others. The supplier is the key though. If something has a made in Taiwan sticker on it but your ordering it from china, chances are its a fake... just like the rex c100s sold on ebay that claim to be from japan.

I have 10 of the MGR/mager ones that auberins has rebranded and sells and they are the second cheapest generic ssr you can buy starting at $4.75 shipped... they are sold under many names such as BERME, KODAK, MGR, MAGER, AUBERINS,EBREW, and the list goes on... in my opinion they are the better value.

I always use the cheap $2 heatsinks but with a 12v fan blowing through them with no problems.
 
Last edited:
Esmitee said:
I was only pulling 23 amps
Click to expand...

~75% of load is typically stated as the load limit to put on the load. The way it was explained to me; the closer the load is to the limit the more likely and more quickly parts are to fail. I had similar issues with growth chamber lighting. LED lights were only pulling 12 amps, but the 15 amp timers kept failing monthly. I had to upgrade to a higher load rating.
 
ancientmariner52 said:
I think the bad guys drove them right off the market. Who'd buy one now?
Click to expand...

Me.
Can anyone tell me what the actual difference between the knock off and a copy of the knockoff is? The only difference i've ever seen documented between the "original" and the knockoff fotek SSR is the fake UL listing on it. That is inconsequential to me. Heck, the knockoff and "real" versions are probably made in the same building. These sort of parts are all the same for the most part. The only difference is the QC. Mager and crydom probably have more QC processes and QC staff visiting their supply chain factories. For something that I use for a few hours a month, I can't See paying 10x more for the same part.
 
What I see as the main differentiator between knockoffs and the real products is that the designs for easily counterfeited items have easily duplicated components and features. The Crydom and Opto22 units have more complicated castings and epoxy potting that make them less appealing to counterfeit for a good profit.
 
Just a word of caution, I've been a part of a thread or two on here where people were replacing characters in curse words with characters like that and the mods didn't like it much more than if the people actually cursed. Although I think their big issue was that people were arguing and cursing at each other.
 
lump42 said:
~75% of load is typically stated as the load limit to put on the load. The way it was explained to me; the closer the load is to the limit the more likely and more quickly parts are to fail. I had similar issues with growth chamber lighting. LED lights were only pulling 12 amps, but the 15 amp timers kept failing monthly. I had to upgrade to a higher load rating.
Click to expand...
say that first sentence out loud ... Does that make any practical sense? The official rating of the device already has this buffer built in.

Again many fake fotek SSRs use components designed for only 10 amp regardless... A real 25amp rated device is rated to be used for up to 25amps that includes 23 amps... If it makes you feel better to use 40 amp equipment for 23 amps great but it isn't needed unless the products your using aren't properly designed.
The NEC 80% rule everyone here keeps misquoting if for devices that draw 100% sustained loads for over 3 hours continuous.

The truth is we are all discussing this without even knowing how the SSR was being cooled
 
Last edited:
Heres a pic of the OP's setup in this thread..

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ct-donut-on-50-amp-panel.644825/#post-8218614

It appears he is using 40 amp "rated" ssrs and using the $2 heat sinks... without a fan blowing on them ? and inside an enclosure I could see them possibly overheating and failing. if they were crap they might have failed either way.

The mypins I bought with ssrs came with "mypin" versions of these white ssrs which work fine, im guessing some seller took it upon himself to buy the cheapest crap fakes he could find and bundle them with the mypin pids for a markup profit..
 
mabrungard said:
Yep, Foteks are junk. I'm not sure about the units you cite from ebay. They look like they would also be easy to be cheap. Get Opto22 or Crydom SSRs if you want more reliability.

Be sure to get 40a or higher in order to provide your system with a little more margin between demand and capacity.
Click to expand...

I can't afford right now those 2 you suggested, Although I know they are top of the line SSR's. Hell, the Opto 22's have a lifetime warranty and made in the USA!

The Foteck's are 40 amp as I stated above

jimmayhugh said:
Also make sure that the SSRs are adequately heat-sinked. I use a large heatsink and a fan on each heatsink when I'm running close to the capacity of the SSR. Never had a problem with the Foteks, but I use all 40A SSRs (I tend to over-engineer everything).
Click to expand...

They are 40 Amp Foteck's and each is mounted on a heat sink with a 120 MM case fan that has a 75 CFM rating that is about an 1 1/2" away from the 1st SSR {not the one that failed} and the failed one is about 3" away with a 120 mm opening exactly in the same place across from the fan. On the exhaust side, The air movement will blow paper away from the side of the box.

cegan09 said:
A popped SSR shouldn't really blow the GFCI or breaker. It likely went because it wasn't adequately cooled,
How big of a heat sink do you have? Where is it? Inside or outside the box? Did you use thermal paste? You mention a fan, but not where it's located. Heat is the enemy of all electronics, especially something that is switching large power levels.
Click to expand...

SEE ABOVE
About 2 minutes after the melt down, I opened the box up, and I could touch the heat sinks and they were not even warm. If there wasn't adequate cooling, I would think it would still be screaming hot.

golfindia said:
The heat sinks that come with SSRs are useless. I have always used big aluminum ones and never had an problems with fotek units. I use these for 2 SSRs:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Cooling-Modu...k-Heatsink-Cooler-F-/183032311991?_mwBanner=1

Putting heatsinks inside a box is like putting a 30-40watt light bulb inside. Fans Blowing hot air around inside don't do much.
Click to expand...

I can't understand why you would make a statement like that, when a huge amount of electronics have fans for cooling in the case?

This is a quote from Auberins web site.

Product Description:
This heat sink is for 25A SSRs. It allows the SSR to handle up to 25 Amp without forced air cooling (in an open air environment). It has mounting holes in the bottom and a slot for a 35 mm DIN rail (no clips). The heat sink is shipped with SSR mounting screws (2 x M4) and heat conductive grease.
Dimensions:
Top: 50x60mm
Base: 50x80 mm
Height: 50 mm
Screw thread: M4-0.7

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_48&products_id=45

I'm using almost double the amp SSR and a fan.


Smellyglove said:
I've used Foteks for several years without an issue during normal use. Adequate heatsink and slight overrated comparing to my load. Maybe I've just been lucky. I melted one though after shorting my herms-element once.
Click to expand...

You must have the REAL Fotecks

ancientmariner52 said:
I believe the real Foteks are quite good. That's why the counterfeiters use that brand name. But how does one tell from a picture on an internet add? Mine fried in no time.
Click to expand...

I read that the real ones are good too. I didn't have the luck of getting them LoL

augiedoggy said:
Theres like 5 or 6 threads at least on this very topic. yes foteks are almost all generic clones and you can buy them for as little as half a cent in bulk on alibaba...

That said I see no mention of if a heatsink with thermal paste was used... without one chances are damn good it will fail violently.

I still have one of the first fotek 25amp ssrs in my current panel now and the other one is in my old panel sitting in my attic... years of use and no issues. that said its a totally random draw

I have 10 of the MGR/mager ones that auberins has rebranded and sells and they are the second cheapest generic ssr you can buy starting at $4.75 shipped... they are sold under many names such as BERME, KODAK, MGR, MAGER, AUBERINS,EBREW, and the list goes on... in my opinion they are the better value.

I always use the cheap $2 heatsinks but with a 12v fan blowing through them with no problems.
Click to expand...

Yes I have a heat sink , Fan and I did use thermal paste when I mounted them.

I just ordered 2 40 amp MAGERs

ancientmariner52 said:
I think the bad guys drove them right off the market. Who'd buy one now?
Click to expand...

NOT ME


augiedoggy said:
say that first sentence out loud ... Does that make any practical sense? The official rating of the device already has this buffer built in.

Yes, I thought 40 amp ssr was way over kill for a 24 amp draw.

Again many fake fotek SSRs use components designed for only 10 amp regardless... A real 25amp rated device is rated to be used for up to 25amps that includes 23 amps... If it makes you feel better to use 40 amp equipment for 23 amps great but it isn't needed unless the products your using aren't properly designed.
The NEC 80% rule everyone here keeps misquoting if for devices that draw 100% sustained loads for over 3 hours continuous.

The truth is we are all discussing this without even knowing how the SSR was being cooled
Click to expand...

I just ordered 2 40 amp MAGERs

See Above
 
Those cheap heat sinks don't get warm to the touch, because they don't conduct heat..... The fans are just Blowing warm air around inside of that box. Best of luck.
 
Here are the pics exactly whats in my box.
You can see how close the fan is to the SSR's and the large exit hole right across from the fan.

BTW, last nite I used the Boil SSR , Didn't set the temp to 168 and let it go full bore with the 5500W element. I just set temps for 10 degrees higher and let it go to the set temp, and kept raising by 10 degrees till 160. I used it for about 40 minutes and, It didn't fry...................YET? I did get the MyPin packages from 2 different suppliers, so maybe I mite have gotten a good one?

None the less, I'm going to replace them both when the Magers show up.
 

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golfindia said:
Those cheap heat sinks don't get warm to the touch, because they don't conduct heat..... The fans are just Blowing warm air around inside of that box. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

LOL, well, the SSR wasn't screaming hot either, Check out the pics I posted and see, the fan, the heat sinks and where all the HEAT is going.......Right out the other side. Thanks !
 
Looking at your pictures, I wonder if you had a bad crimp connection that overheated. Did you use a ratcheting crimper? The crimps on your 10 gauge wires look questionable.
 
Sometimes, a new part just fails...

When I was designing Teensynet, I ordered some "bargain brand" MOSFETS from a well-known U.S. web retailer. I had about a 20% DOA infant mortality rate. I switched to a U.S. distributor, ordered name-brand parts, and had no further problems.

I've also had brand new, name-brand items just die, just because.
 
golfindia said:
Me.
Can anyone tell me what the actual difference between the knock off and a copy of the knockoff is? The only difference i've ever seen documented between the "original" and the knockoff fotek SSR is the fake UL listing on it. That is inconsequential to me. Heck, the knockoff and "real" versions are probably made in the same building. These sort of parts are all the same for the most part. The only difference is the QC. Mager and crydom probably have more QC processes and QC staff visiting their supply chain factories. For something that I use for a few hours a month, I can't See paying 10x more for the same part.
Click to expand...


Look here:

http://www.instructables.com/id/The-inner-workings-of-Counterfeit-FOTEK-SSRs/
 
Foteks are fine if there real. Unfortunately I think 95% of the foteks online are fake
 
For the record, there are many different manufacturers selling fake foteks on alibaba the quality likely varys quite a bit. It sounds like you might have had either a faulty or poor quality fake.
 
Blazinlow86 said:
Buy them from auberin and get a large heatsink from them also
Click to expand...
Why buy them from Auberins? It was already mentioned auberins just buys Chinese MGR SSRs, has them rebranded and doubles the price they are the same SSR ebrew sells as well... You can buy the very same SSR on Amazon or eBay for $5 shipped. Better to buy two there and have a spare than pay $15 for one with shipping with a different color sticker on it.
 
golfindia said:
Those cheap heat sinks don't get warm to the touch, because they don't conduct heat..... The fans are just Blowing warm air around inside of that box. Best of luck.
Click to expand...
From my understanding of how heat transfer works that statement makes no sense. An aluminum heatsink with thermal compound that doesn't get hot just proves it's working well or it's still plenty large enough for the just. do you think they arent made of aluminum or something? these are common din rail ssr heatsinks.. same as auberins and erbew sell for 3 times the price (besides the flashy anodized coatings)

I have 5 of these same heat sinks in a couple panels , some dating back four years. All set up the same way as the OP has them and I can assure you they DO work great this way.. I even have a $20 crydom clone dual ssr on one of these heat sinks which controls both my BK and HLT elements in my current panel... no issues
 
Last edited:
augiedoggy said:
From my understanding of how heat transfer works that statement makes no sense. An aluminum heatsink with thermal compound that doesn't get hot just proves it's working well or it's still plenty large enough for the just. do you think they arent made of aluminum or something? these are common din rail ssr heatsinks.. same as auberins and erbew sell for 3 times the price (besides the flashy anodized coatings)

I have 5 of these same heat sinks in a couple panels , some dating back four years. All set up the same way as the OP has them and I can assure you they DO work great this way.. I even have a $20 crydom clone dual ssr on one of these heat sinks which controls both my BK and HLT elements in my current panel... no issues
Click to expand...

Physics. Mass dissipates heat. Weight one of those $2 Tee shaped heatsinks. I used some of them for a long time too. Until I switched to a real heat sink. My real heat sinks get hotter than hell. Because they are dissipating heat. But hey, whatever works. It's not like we're operating nuclear powerplants. It's just beer.
 
stevehaun said:
Looking at your pictures, I wonder if you had a bad crimp connection that overheated. Did you use a ratcheting crimper? The crimps on your 10 gauge wires look questionable.
Click to expand...

No I don't have a ratcheting crimper. I did examine the crimped connections, and found no signs of arcing, burning, melting , or, any discoloration. All of the wiring is intact, fortunately:rock:
 
augiedoggy said:
From my understanding of how heat transfer works that statement makes no sense. An aluminum heatsink with thermal compound that doesn't get hot just proves it's working well or it's still plenty large enough for the just. do you think they arent made of aluminum or something? these are common din rail ssr heatsinks.. same as auberins and erbew sell for 3 times the price (besides the flashy anodized coatings)

I have 5 of these same heat sinks in a couple panels , some dating back four years. All set up the same way as the OP has them and I can assure you they DO work great this way.. I even have a $20 crydom clone dual ssr on one of these heat sinks which controls both my BK and HLT elements in my current panel... no issues
Click to expand...


Another note, The box I have is thin Stainless Steel and it measures 17 1/2" x 23 1/2" x 8" deep It's huge and all the components have a lot of room. Lots of airspace too. It's not all crammed in there like a lot of projects I see.
 
golfindia said:
Physics. Mass dissipates heat. Weight one of those $2 Tee shaped heatsinks. I used some of them for a long time too. Until I switched to a real heat sink. My real heat sinks get hotter than hell. Because they are dissipating heat. But hey, whatever works. It's not like we're operating nuclear powerplants. It's just beer.
Click to expand...

The heat sinks that I have, are designed for SSR's. That's another reason "Auberins" sells them for SSR's, although they suggest you upgrade to that Honking Slab of aluminum on top for $100. bucks and it's only worth about $ 30 - 35 bucks. You won't void their warranty if you don't upgrade.
I would think if the heat sink is not hot, it's doing the job it's supposed to do. If it's really hot, I would think it's not working property because it's purpose is to "DISSIPATE HEAT", Not to retain heat.

Another note, The box I have is thin Stainless Steel and it measures 17 1/2" x 23 1/2" x 8" deep It's huge and all the components have a lot of room. Lots of airspace too. It's not all crammed in there like a lot of projects I see.

Here are better pics of my set up Golfindia. Hope you can clearly see how much air the ssr"s and heat sinks, and everything else gets.
20180224_221115.jpg
20180224_221154.jpg
20180224_221413.jpg
 

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