Force carb an esb/kegerator temp questions

[tmurph6]

Two questions, one thread.

I just built a kegerator out of an old refrigerator, however the thermostat dial does not give an indication of temperature on the dial. To figure out the fridge temp, I stuck a glass of water in the fridge, read the temp after a few hours and adjusted. Is this a good method to use to find the temp? It sounded pretty logical to me but hey, you never know.

Second question. I'll be kegging an esb next month, but after reading the carbonation levels from the charts, I'm not sure how I'm going to do this. The carb level for an English style ale is .75-1.3 volumes. Is this possible?? If not I was planning on doing 2 volumes with the set and forget method for 3 weeks. If using the set and forget method, is it recommended to set your serving pressure at the same pressure you used to force carb? Thanks all.

 

[Grizzlybrew]

#1 - Yes, that's about as good as any, unless you wanted to stick a full carboy in there and take the temp. But for what you're doing, it's fine

#2 - Of course it's possible. Just set your regulator to 6 - 9 psi, depending on your temps and forget about it. Even 4 or 5 will dispense beer, although quite slowly.

 

[Nuggethead]

I just put a digital thermometer in the fridge, you'll know the temp in 5 minutes.

On my Irish Red, I set at 11psi and leave it for 3 weeks. It will be carbed in about 7 to 10 days, but will taste better after 3 weeks. So yes, set at serving psi and forget works best as long as your using enough serving line to handle the psi for desired carb level. 10' of 3/16" I.D line will work great up to 2.5 volumes, roughly 12psi. At 2 volumes, your looking at around 6psi @ 38F. I'd carb it at 10psi @ 38F for 2.2 volumes and if you want less carb, just bleed off to lower psi.
Hope this answers your question, had a couple brews short time ago.:cross:

 

[tmurph6]

Yeah, I think I'll take your advice and carb to 2.2 volumes. Out of curiosity though, how would one carb to 1.3 volumes and still be able to serve the beer? I mean you'd have to be at like 1 psi at 55f, then not to mention you can't serve at 1 psi because it won't overcome the losses in the line to even make it to the tap. Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[BARBQ]

will the volume change if you leave it hooked up to c02? I filled my corny keg up through the opending then charged with c02 at 30 psi for 13 hours then brought it down to 12 psi and it has been like that for 3 days. Does it max out at a certain volume?

It is still hooked up at 40-55F (my freezer ranges). I keep checking it each day and drinking a glass. It is getting better each day.

 

[Nuggethead]

I'm not sure how to answer that one, my charts don't go that low and I've never had a need to carb a beer that flat. Maybe it would work better to natural carb in the keg at 1/2 the usual corn sugar amount at room temp and then just push the beer with 2 or 3 psi. Just guessing tho.

 

[Nuggethead]

will the volume change if you leave it hooked up to c02? I filled my corny keg up through the opending then charged with c02 at 30 psi for 13 hours then brought it down to 12 psi and it has been like that for 3 days. Does it max out at a certain volume?

It is still hooked up at 40-55F (my freezer ranges). I keep checking it each day and drinking a glass. It is getting better each day.

Yes, leave it hooked up and it will stop taking gas when it reaches equilibrium. If your at 12psi, you will hit around 2.5 volumes in 2 to 3 weeks.

 

[BARBQ]

Yes, leave it hooked up and it will stop taking gas when it reaches equilibrium. If your at 12psi, you will hit around 2.5 volumes in 2 to 3 weeks.

thanks alot

 

[cino101]

tmurph6,

If your fridge is relatively cold you are correct, turning PSI up to just serve the beer will start to over carbonate it past your desired style recommendations. You can get around this by increasing serving temperature, bottling, or pushing beer using other gas mix like argon or nitrogen or a beergas mix. My chart shows 4PSI at 55 would give you ~1.3VOL, that might be enough to push it and keep the low carbonation. http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html

Another note that the website above doesnt go much lower than 1.5Vol in its style charts: here is another useful website calculator
http://www.franklinbrew.org/tools/forcecarb.html

 

[cino101]

an even better link: http://www.collectionsoft.com/mybrewcollection/fc0.html

I guess your right .8-1.3 for English Bitter, wow thats low!

 

[BARBQ]

mmm english bitter.

tmurph6 let me know if you cant drink it all. I dont live to far from katy.

 

[tmurph6]

mmm english bitter.

tmurph6 let me know if you cant drink it all. I dont live to far from katy.
*

Haha, the only way I wouldn't be able to drink it is if I put it in a magic keg that never ran out

One more question regarding kegging then I'll quit I promise. If I'm trying to carb a high co2 brew like a hefe. Is it possible I'd have to increase my beer line run due to the high amount of pressure required to force carb? Or can I lower the serving pressure below what I used to carbonate just to serve? Do I make any sense??? I'm just kind of confused about whether theres a difference between the pressure used to carb rather than serve using the set and forget method.

 

[cino101]

If you over carbonate you usually have to take it off the gas, bleed it, let it sit, bleed again, repeat, until its back down to normal. Given that, I would assume carbonating to a desired level using a higher pressure than your serving pressure would be fine.

In other words, dropping pressure down to a serving pressure from a higher carbonation pressure should not drop your overall VOL in your beer. (the other direction as we have discussed would eventually over carbonate your beer)

 

[cino101]

nevermind... the more I read on here the more I learn! I guess you always want your force carb pressure that you used to hit your VOL to equal the serving pressure. So yes you would have to change your liquid line length to get the perfect pour. There probably is a beter website to calculate all this but here is what I have so far: http://www.micromatic.com/direct-draw-draft-beer-system-aid-121.html

Another Link: http://www.franklinbrew.org/brewinfo/balance.html

 

[tmurph6]

I'm having a hard time rationalizing that in my head. Say you put 15 psi on it to get to say 3 vol (just throwing numbers around). If you lower to say 8 to serve, I would think the beer would stay at 3 volumes. I mean ultimately you're never removing carbonation. Just pushing it at a lower pressure to slow the dispensing. Now on the other hand I can understand how pressurizing at say 6 psi to get 2 volumes then upping your serving pressure to say 10 psi would effectively change the amount of gas being dissolved in the solution due to it trying to equalize at the new higher pressure.

All that being said, I suppose maybe if you lowered your serving pressure from carbing pressure the beer would start to gas off to equalize at a pressure between serving and carb pressure inside the keg, which would screw with the volumes. (kind of how the beer bubbles and fizzes at 1atm after dispensing eventually going flat due to it's inability to equalize to 0psig).

I'm sure there's a calculator that can say what do you want your vol to be at a certain temp and what do you want your serving pressure to be. The calculation will basically say ok overcarbonate it to this pressure then when you lower it to your serving pressure the volumes will be spot on. Unless this is impossible due to the constant volume change of liquid to gas as you begin draining the keg.

My head is spinning.

I think I may have answered my own question. Can anyone confirm my logic if you can follow my ramblings?