Food grade bucket v. Glass Carboy

[CobraKai]

I apologize if this questions has been asked before.

Due to space restrictions, I would like to start my primary brewing of cider in a food grade bucket and then after primary is complete transfer to a smaller glass carboy for aging. The guys at the local homebrew store say they brew beer in buckets all the time, but don't have experience with cider.

Will starting the cider in a plastic food grade bucket have negative consequences to the taste or fermentation process? Thanks in advance

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi CobraKai -
None at all - in my opinion - AND fermenting in sanitized food grade buckets will have the advantage of allowing you to stir the cider several times a day during the early fermentation - a process that incorporates air into the cider (the yeast need air) and which prevents strata forming where there may be shortages of sugar and nutrient. I use a clean towel as my cover (no need to seal the bucket during the early and vigorous fermentation - given the amount of CO2 that the yeast is producing.
When the gravity drops close to 1.000 (say 1.010 or 1.005) then you want to rack the cider into a carboy (or another vessel) with no headroom (space between the surface of the cider and the bottom of the bung) . The yeast may still want/need air, but now the cost of air (in terms of oxidizing the cider itself) means that it is better to cut of the supply of air for the yeast and the yeast will solve problems of cell repair and the like by using other materials in the wine to catalyze chemicals.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I apologize if this questions has been asked before.

Due to space restrictions, I would like to start my primary brewing of cider in a food grade bucket and then after primary is complete transfer to a smaller glass carboy for aging. The guys at the local homebrew store say they brew beer in buckets all the time, but don't have experience with cider.

Will starting the cider in a plastic food grade bucket have negative consequences to the taste or fermentation process? Thanks in advance

I use bucket fermenters all the time. They make it easy when using fruit, they make it easy to stir or "punch the cap," they make it easy to deal with large amounts of foam. Just be sure to drill a proper sized hole and install a rubber O ring & airlock.
Regards, GF.

 

[podz]

Don't go thirsty during the summer!

 

[bernardsmith]

I use bucket fermenters all the time. They make it easy when using fruit, they make it easy to stir or "punch the cap," they make it easy to deal with large amounts of foam. Just be sure to drill a proper sized hole and install a rubber O ring & airlock.
Regards, GF.

Why? A clean towel makes a perfect cover for a primary fermenter. It prevents dirt from getting in and allows CO2 to outgas and enables you to have easy access to the fermenting liquid to stir and keep any cap suitably submerged and wet.

 

[Albionwood]

I think you're getting bad advice here - in my experience, cider is very susceptible to oxidation, and allowing any oxygen in after fermentation begins will cause loss of fruit character and aroma, and lead to premature staling. If you will be drinking it up quickly, or backsweetening with fresh juice, this probably doesn't matter much.

I always ferment cider in glass, with as little headspace as possible.

 

[podz]

in my experience, cider is very susceptible to oxidation, and allowing any oxygen in after fermentation begins will cause loss of fruit character and aroma, and lead to premature staling.

Can you prove that?

Fermentation to ABV percentages over 9 is the thing that causes loss of fruit character and aroma. In addition, there is no such phenomenon as an alcoholic beverage "going stale" until it's been consumed in large quantities and is coming back out of your mouth in the form of "bad breath". Alcohol itself is chemically stable and stabilises the rest of the contents, even milk, from going bad.

 

[Albionwood]

podz - We may have a language problem here. "Staling" as used in reference to fruit wines and other low-alcohol beverages means loss of certain components of the flavor and aroma profile, leaving the beverage with less character and complexity. Oxidative staling often produces a flavor described as "cardboardy". You will find numerous references to this process for many kinds of alcoholic beverages, and it is not the same thing as ketosis, which I think is what you were describing.

As for proof, it's in the tasting - and therefore subjective. I frankly don't care whether you believe me or not, since I won't be forced to drink your cider and thus don't care whether it meets my flavor expectations.

Your assertion that fruit character and aroma are not lost at less than 9% ABV is not consistent with my experience, nor that of the numerous commentors on Cider Digest and Cider Workshop, nor with published information about cider fermentation. There is nothing magic about 9% alcohol (and it is a rare apple juice that will reach 9% without chaptalization).

 

[podz]

Your assertion that fruit character and aroma are not lost at less than 9% ABV is not consistent with my experience, nor that of the numerous commentors on Cider Digest and Cider Workshop, nor with published information about cider fermentation. There is nothing magic about 9% alcohol (and it is a rare apple juice that will reach 9% without chaptalization).

I've made 5 gallon batches of cider about 200 times. I have tried a lot of different amounts of sugar and have indeed noticed that there is something magical about 9% ABV - go above it and the flavour starts to sharply disappear.

As far as publishing goes - I, too, have been published regarding cider fermentation. That, in and of itself, means absolutely nothing.

 

[gregbathurst]

If you want to see the effect of oxygen on cider, bottle some in a 1 litre PET bottle and see how long it lasts compared to glass bottles (I have done this). After a few months the cider in PET will be noticeably worse, after 6 months it will be undrinkable. Air is the enemy of good cider.

 

[Albionwood]

I've made 5 gallon batches of cider about 200 times. I have tried a lot of different amounts of sugar and have indeed noticed that there is something magical about 9% ABV - go above it and the flavour starts to sharply disappear.

I suspect that is a problem caused by excessive chaptalization. The more sugar you add, the less your finished product resembles cider.

 

[chevalcider]

I always ferment in buckets as a primary. No more than a week or two. As soon as the fermentation slows and there isn't a whole lot of CO2 coming up through the cider I rack it into a glass carboy with as little head space as possible.