Flavor degrading in keg, hefeweizen, suggestions?

[quiet_dissent]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a while but have decided to join to improve my brewing, and more importantly, kegging skills. Yes, I think I need help understanding my keg setup.

As a reward for finishing major projects at work, I purchased a single tap Kegco kegerator in April. I have also recently moved to BIAB and have noted a remarkable improvement in the quality of my beer (in contrast with partial mash). So I am happy with my progress but am stuck with how to best use my keg. And I don't know if it is possible, but it seems like there is something "off" with my currently-kegged beer, a traditional hefeweizen, and this "off" quality didn't come about until the past few days.

A bit about the beer, setup, and situation:

A traditional hefeweizen made with WLP300. Fermented out nice, tasted great right before kegging -- nice banana note with a clove-like finish. I kegged into a clean and sanitized corny keg (brand spankin' new, I might add), added some CO2 to the head space, and stored until my previous keg of pale ale kicked. I cleaned the lines per manufacturer's instructions using a cleaning kit and cleanser purchased with the kegerator. After cleaning, I hooked up the hefeweizen and set the pressure to 30 psi for two days; when initially setting, I gently shook the keg a bit to speed things up. After two days, I bled some of the CO2 pressure off via the release valve, and reset the psi to 15. After a a day or two, I bumped the pressure down a few psi and poured a glass to see how things were progressing. The beer tasted great. It was still a bit undercarbonated, but all of the wonderful qualities I cited above before kegging were present. I drank a few, even though a bit undercarbed, and was elated at the yummy beer I had made. I figured with another week or so, carbonation would be good and life would be grand. All is well, right?

Fast forward to today: the beer tastes like crap. Some of the unique characteristics of a bavarian wheat beer (fruit, banana, clove), including the aromatic smell, have almost vanished. It tastes a bit "flat" even though it is more carbonated than before. There is still a touch of tang, and a bit of astringency, and maybe a hint of clove, in the finish, but that is it. The carbonation is better, but the beer is not the same. How is this even possible? I've rustled the keg a bit to make sure the yeast has remained in suspension. The beer is cold -- my kegerator is set to 36 degrees F. I'm a bit confused and a little frustrated.

I am hoping some of y'all with much more kegging and beer making experience can direct me to some troubleshooting ideas and/or make suggestions on improving things a bit. I was really hoping to serve this beer to a few friends visiting from out of town tomorrow night. If that isn't possible, it is certainly not the end of the world as I have a healthy supply of other things but...what gives? I figured at this stage of the game my beer was probably in the clear and shouldn't have any issues.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

The esters (banana, clove, etc.) will fade fast in e hef. They're best consumed young. I like to bottle my hefs so the conditioning can produce a little extra life in 'em, but I still try to drink them within a month or so.

 

[Bensiff]

Yup, drink them fast.

 

[stpug]

Good carbonation, good head, and good temp might help bring up those aromatics. Taste is 90% smell so if you can get the nose to pick it up then your tongue should follow.

Make sure you're getting some good carbonation in there; you want your beer to releasing co2 from the glass to bring up those aromatics. Aim to produce a decent head which will produce a big initial aromatic cloud. Leave some room in the glass above the top of the head to trap those aromatics. And bring that beer up a little in temperature to help release those aromatics (40-45F). You can start with simply pouring a half glass in a lightly warmed glass, cover it for 5 minutes, and then indulge - see if it makes a difference.

 

[quiet_dissent]

Do you think it is possible for the flavor to degrade in two weeks? That's about how long I've had this tapped, maybe even a few days under two weeks.

Worst case scenario, I make summer shandies to go with my lunches: the benefits of working from home in the summer.

 

[stpug]

I have a hard time thinking you'd see a HUGE difference in 2 weeks; subtle maybe but not big. I think it's mostly about your beer not letting go of those aromatics (see my post above)

 

[stpug]

To provide an example: I have tried North Coast Brothers Thelonius Belgian Abbey Ale on two occasions. The first time was right out of the fridge (~33F), in a glass, and drank relatively quickly. I thought it was alright but didn't love it. The second time was right out of the same fridge and allowed to warm up (probably ~45F) and it was night and day - loved it. Ten degrees made a world of difference for this beer; the smell was the biggest difference but, like I said, the tongue noticed a marked difference as well.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Do you think it is possible for the flavor to degrade in two weeks? That's about how long I've had this tapped, maybe even a few days under two weeks.

Worst case scenario, I make summer shandies to go with my lunches: the benefits of working from home in the summer.

With a hef, definitely. I notice a fall off quite quickly with that particular style. It's so driven by those yeast aromas and phenolic flavors, and so as soon as those start to fade, the beer seems to lack the life it once had.

 

[quiet_dissent]

Good carbonation, good head, and good temp might help bring up those aromatics. Taste is 90% smell so if you can get the nose to pick it up then your tongue should follow.

Make sure you're getting some good carbonation in there; you want your beer to releasing co2 from the glass to bring up those aromatics. Aim to produce a decent head which will produce a big initial aromatic cloud. Leave some room in the glass above the top of the head to trap those aromatics. And bring that beer up a little in temperature to help release those aromatics (40-45F). You can start with simply pouring a half glass in a lightly warmed glass, cover it for 5 minutes, and then indulge - see if it makes a difference.

That makes some sense. I'll try your suggestion and see how that works. Implicit in your reply is probably the bigger answer to my question: patience in carbonation. I think the novelty of the kegerator has made me lose some of my patience for carbonation, whereas before I was fine with leaving the bottles alone for at least three to four weeks. Once the novelty wears off and I become familiar with CO2 settings, I think I'll have fewer issues (or at least that is what I hope). Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[stpug]

... Implicit in your reply is probably the bigger answer to my question: patience in carbonation. I think the novelty of the kegerator has made me lose some of my patience for carbonation, whereas before I was fine with leaving the bottles alone for at least three to four weeks. Once the novelty wears off and I become familiar with CO2 settings, I think I'll have fewer issues (or at least that is what I hope). Thanks for your suggestion.

I'm with you on this. Since moving to kegging last year my beer better be fully carbonated in 14 days or less (I guess I lost my patience for carbonation)!! Lately, I've gone the route of putting kegs in the ~33F fridge under 20psi for 2-3 days, then venting once, and then back at about 8psi for the remainder. I've got good carbonation after the initial 20psi days and the 8psi just dials it in over the next couple days. I find this to be sufficient for my needs because I feel that it takes the carbonic acid a few days to really get into the solution/beer and adjust the flavor profile so it's still about 5-6 days before it's really ready enough to drink.

But the overall process of proper pitching amounts, fermentation temp control, primary only brewing, quick keg carbonation has brought down the time frame from what used to be 6-8 weeks for a beer to be ready (painful) to what is now 2-3 weeks G2G for most beer styles.

Anyway, I hope your hefe comes back around so you can impress your friends with your brew

 

[UltraHighABV]

obigatory bump:

i was searching for this issue after it just happened to me

from day 1 to day 8 post kegging my hefeweizen it tasted amazing, i cant even describe except to say it was a total flavor explosion, even though it was still a little flat

now at day 9 its done. no moreflavors, just taste "meh". im verydissapointed. I thought maybe if i shook to keg it might resuspend some yeast and bring back that taste i know long for but it didnt work

fortunatly i have about 5 pints left and a dunkleweizen on backup!