Let us know what you think of the finished beer!
'Flash Brewing'? This looks interesting!
- Thread starter Kris.J
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BrewnWKopperKat
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It's well known that DME-based 'clone' recipes can come close, but are generally 'not the same as' the all grain equivalent.
This kit is not an attempt at a 'clone' recipe.
Brewed properly, the kit will likely make a good Centennial "Single Hop" IPA.
eta: And one more thing. Having enjoyed a Bell's 2-H over the years, I find it has a slightly different flavor has it ages in the bottle. A 1 month old bottle is not the same as a 3 month old bottle. Both are enjoyable. Which one is "better" is a likely personal choice.
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It would probably be fine but with the temperatures we had in Texas last year I could imagine the package sitting in the back of a 150° truck for more than a day. Even otherwise stable ingredients will degrade when exposed to high temperatures for long periods.
Again it probably is not a big concern but if the beer turns out bad shipping conditions could be a factor.
I just wonder if the flash kit is a good "clone" of the conventional DME kit. Just noticed that the estimated ABV and IBU are quite different.
When I've seen people in Australia and the UK (and I think maybe the Grain to Glass guys in Canada) use these sorts of kits I've always wondered how they turn out, so curiosity got the better of me and I ordered the Citra Session Pale Ale kit.
To give it the best chance of success (and because why not) I'm planning to use my fermentation chamber, cold crash, and do a closed transfer to a keg, but other than that I'll just follow the instructions and see how it comes out.
I do mostly all grain nowadays but still do an extract batch here and there to experiment, and as others have said if this is a super quick way to crank out a beer and the results are decent, or at least are on par with typical extract brewing and is a lot faster, to me it's just another tool in the toolbox.
I'll report back on the results and hope the others trying will do so as well!
To give it the best chance of success (and because why not) I'm planning to use my fermentation chamber, cold crash, and do a closed transfer to a keg, but other than that I'll just follow the instructions and see how it comes out.
I do mostly all grain nowadays but still do an extract batch here and there to experiment, and as others have said if this is a super quick way to crank out a beer and the results are decent, or at least are on par with typical extract brewing and is a lot faster, to me it's just another tool in the toolbox.
I'll report back on the results and hope the others trying will do so as well!
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I’ve seen some of your YouTube videos. Will you post a video review?
I'm not sure that the Flash Brewing kits really are those sorts of kits. And ISTM that if these aren't a pretty substantial improvement over pre-hopped LME then they will be an epic fail at this price point.
The largest hurdle for really nice beer I see is the "flash Yeast". They are forced to include yeast that can handle room temps+ which might just be meh. A little bit of temp control, a nice strain and good cold side practice might make a world of difference. But then you are close to the normal DME kits which defeats some of the purpose. So I guess it all has its place.
Yep, definitely will! Thanks for asking. I'm planning on doing a "kit to glass" video with an overview of the kit, showing the process, and a tasting. I also used this as an excuse to order a 5 gallon Oxebar keg since I currently only have 2.5 gallon Torpedo kegs.
BrewnWKopperKat
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Looks like the concern would apply to shipping many brewing ingredients (in general) and isn't specific these types of kits.
BrewnWKopperKat
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The yeast strain / product is certainly an unknown.
Balance that with their statement that they spent a number of years on research and development.
Over in /r/homebrewing in a recent topic (link) on one of the internet brewing machines, some one opined that "I don't think these [internet enabled brewing machine] companies are reading the room very well".
With regard to the new MoreBeer kits, it feels like they "read the room" well and created a product that shortens brew day and makes it harder to fail on the "five priorities" of brewing.
Will it succeed? I think it will. But as always, "Time will tell".
It was easier in the old days because there was not craft beer everywhere. Now, the resultant beer needs to taste good for folks to buy more flash kits. Or they will go to the beer store after the experiment. Folks are picky even if they give minimal effort.
BrewnWKopperKat
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All part of "reading the room". And, like I said earlier ...
... "Time will tell".
Ah, but buying which beer? The blonde ale kit works out to about $0.80 for a twelve ounce beer when you figure that you're not going to get a full five gallons. Current price for a 12-pack of Sam Adams Summer Ale at my local grocery store just happens to be almost exactly twice that per bottle. OTOH If I'm just looking for a cheap buzz I could get a 30-pack of PBR for the same price as the 12-pack of Sam.
I agree. The kits are reasonably priced for a full 5 gal batch (vs $20 for a 5L recipe pack). The equipment kit (while it seems a little expensive vs just getting the full starter kit) sets up somebody with a quality fermenter that can be used if the person moves on to extract or all-grain brewing.
Though as I think about it, I would still recommend somebody spend the $160 on the "Deluxe Home Brewing Kit" from MoreBeer which comes with one recipe kit (vs around $120 for the Flash equipment and a recipe pack). I do wish the Deluxe kit came with the 7 gal Fermonster vs the 6 gal one. Brewing one of their extract kits as a partial boil is really not that much effort, but it does at least feel like you are brewing a beer. You could even just toss in a Flash Brewing recipe kit as your first batch before the extract kit.
Just pondering... Does a 50lb bag of dark DME have less "fermentable sugar" than a 50lb bag of the lightest DME available? Is it significant enough to buy light DME and then add specialty malts?
I believe that Briess claims 75% fermentability for all of their extracts.
BrewnWKopperKat
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Not enough details (and probably the wrong topic) to ponder along with you. Maybe open a new topic and provide details on recipe(s) you are considering?
Do you still need to de-chlorinate the water? I don't know if the relevant tannins survive the boil (or the flash dry).
BrewnWKopperKat
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From the Cali Mountain kit instructions (PDF):
My understanding is that tannins are extracted
... from grain husks
... when sparging, steeping, or mashing
... at a high temperature
... with a high water pH
.... and/or with high bicarbonates.
There are no grains (and no grain husks) in these kits.
For other processes that brew with DME / LME and steeping grains, take the time to read chapter 1 of How to Brew, 4e. In the book, Palmer does an excellent job of poka-yoke-ing (error proofing) many common new brewer mistakes.
I should have said "polyphenols" instead of "tannins". The former is more general, and is pretty universally used in homebrewing texts.
I was wondering if the protein breaks and susbequent filtering in the flash-beer DME might make chlorine irrelevant. (Hot break should reduce polyphenol content. I imagine cold break would, too. And likely there's some primo filtering before the sprayer nozzle!)
But if the instructions call for dechlorinated water, the spectre of band-aid beer must live on in flash brewing.
I was wondering if the protein breaks and susbequent filtering in the flash-beer DME might make chlorine irrelevant. (Hot break should reduce polyphenol content. I imagine cold break would, too. And likely there's some primo filtering before the sprayer nozzle!)
But if the instructions call for dechlorinated water, the spectre of band-aid beer must live on in flash brewing.
BrewnWKopperKat
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FWIW, all brewing water calls for removing chlorine and chloramine.
https://beersmith.com/blog/2012/06/19/phenolics-and-tannins-in-home-brewed-beer/
But if flash brewing let you just open the tap, that'd be a pretty neat feature. I've never waited until after the boil to add water, so it's new territory for me.
Are there other pre-boiled DME? Is that what hopped extract is? (I always figured it had tiny hop particles or something, but I've never seen it in the wild.)
edit: TIL https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/how-malt-extract-is-made/
So this is unhopped extract processed as if it were hopped. Interesting.
Are there other pre-boiled DME? Is that what hopped extract is? (I always figured it had tiny hop particles or something, but I've never seen it in the wild.)
edit: TIL https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/how-malt-extract-is-made/
So this is unhopped extract processed as if it were hopped. Interesting.
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BrewnWKopperKat
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Good questions, but a long way from the primary topic. Consider asking your questions in a fresh topic where they will get better visibility (and maybe more discussion).
I could be wrong, but I am not convinced the DME that comes with the Flash Brewing kits is any different than standard DME. The iGulu has a similar "just mix with water" approach. On their site they list the ingredients as "CBW Pale Ale DME, by Briess." In the walkthrough video, the DME looks exactly like a bag of off the shelf Briess DME (even with a LD Carlson logo).
https://igulu.com/blogs/recipes/how...r-the-hoppy-bitter-pale-ale-brew-kit-and-more
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I’m skeptical about the notion they are having any thing made just for these kits. However, the flash yeast does look like it is specially packaged for them. They may be using K-97 German ale yeast which is good from 64-78F. I added up the price of DME, cryo hops and a hop shot from More Beer’s price list and the kit price is about the same. A custom made DME would be more expensive. I sometimes brew extract batches in the summer but I have to add a ton of hops to mask the extract flavor I don’t like. I heat the water to just below boiling to sanitize, while making a hop tea in a side pot. If I don’t drink it in 3-4 weeks the hop flavor fades to a point where I notice the extract taste again. So it’s best for me to do 2.5 gallon batches. Perhaps I’ll try their method using cryo hops and the hop shot. But I’m not sure I’m ready to just add cold water to the DME.
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BrewnWKopperKat
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Back in the mid 2010s, Briess had similar diagrams which suggested they use a different process. Unfortunately, much of that information didn't survive a couple of web site refreshes.
eta and FWIW: in other topics here at HomeBrewTalk, those brew with both Briess and Muntons have mentioned minor visual differences in the way that these two brands perform when heating to a boil. In a small number of brew days, I found those visual differences were visible in a brand of LME as well.
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BrewnWKopperKat
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There are a couple of people in the NEIPA/hazy/IPA topics that are winning competitions with DME based recipes. Consider PM-img them for ideas on how they do what they do.
From what I gather, these kits are not 'just DME' the way we're used to.
https://www.morebeer.com/content/flash_brewing_FAQ
How did you eliminate the need to boil?
Our Flash Malts undergo boiling and whirlpooling to remove the hot break before being dried. We then use an innovative Hop Bite™ oil, which provides a smooth, clean bitterness without the need to be boiled.The Flash Malt product has been processed a step further than regular LME / DME. Same with the hops - the hop bite oil has already been processed a step further, so we don't need to boil to achieve alpha acid isomerization.
BrewnWKopperKat
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@KrisJ: one way to look for hot break in DME (or LME) is to add the DME (no hops) at around 140F then gently heat it to a boil.
From what I have seen different brands of DME (or LME) will show different amounts (or no) hot break.
Within a brand, the specific styles of DME / LME seem to be consistent in the amount of hot break.
From what I have seen different brands of DME (or LME) will show different amounts (or no) hot break.
Within a brand, the specific styles of DME / LME seem to be consistent in the amount of hot break.
Photographic documentation of this would be awesome, but I understand if you don't have pics.
BrewnWKopperKat
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I posted pictures here (HomeBrewTalk) a couple of years ago.
Ooh, a search engine challenge...
BrewnWKopperKat
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@mac_1103 : I found a similar photo here at HomeBrewTalk (link) with a site specific "duckduckgo" on images.
- "Foam" (lower left and on top of the wort) seems to be common to all the brands of DME/LME I have used.
- "Aggregates" (upper right and often floating just below the "foam") can be observed (if it occurs) between 150F and 190F.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Sorry, without any factual information, the above is just an opinion, which is OK.
The only way to test it would be to buy a kit, divide in half, and make 1/2 with the provided flash malt and the other half with regular DME. I’m kinda bored right now, and might just do it.
BrewnWKopperKat
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Or stop testing.
Buy the kit, enjoy the short brew day, and trust MoreBeer's efforts to enjoy the result.
What do you mean by "regular DME"?
IMO "regular DME" is a meaningless phrase. DME (and LME) is brand specific.
