Flanders Red - Dulle Griet

[flyangler18]

I love me some Rodenbach Grand Cru, and I've been planning a Flanders Red for months and months while I was anxiously awaiting the re-release of the Roeselare blend from Wyeast. Well, I have two packets of this fabled blend in my fridge and I've been trying to formulate a recipe that uses JZ's recipe as a base with my own special touches and flourishes. I was thinking of doing the Raj Apte oak dowel method for micro-oxygenation, but reading some of Michael's postings recently have me thinking I could get the same character using oak cubes.

Not sure if I'm on the right track here, so I'm requesting the usual C/C for this recipe in process.

The name 'Dulle Griet' (Mad Meg) is a Flemish folklore figure who led a group of women to pillage Hell, and painted by Pieter Bruegel the Elder.

[SIZE=+2]Dulle Griet[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]17-B Flanders Red Ale[/SIZE]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 4/15/09



Size: 6.0 gal
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 90%
Calories: 176.01 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.054 (1.048 - 1.057)
|===================#============|
Terminal Gravity: 1.005 (1.002 - 1.012)
|=============#==================|
Color: 15.68 (10.0 - 16.0)
|=======================#========|
Alcohol: 6.39% (4.6% - 6.5%)
|=======================#========|
Bitterness: 15.6 (10.0 - 25.0)
|=============#==================|

[SIZE=+1]Ingredients:[/SIZE]
8.0 lb Vienna Malt
2 lb Munich Malt
1.0 lb White Wheat Malt
6 oz Belgian Caramunich
4.0 oz Belgian Aromatic
4.0 oz Belgian Special B
1 oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1.0 ea WYeast 3763 Roeselare

00:03:00 Dough-In - Liquor: 3.98 gal; Strike: 169.03 °F; Target: 156 °F
01:03:00 Saccharification Rest - Rest: 60 min; Final: 156.0 °F
02:03:00 Lautering - First Runnings: 0.0 gal sparge @ 154 °F, 10.0 min; Sparge #1: 2.54 gal sparge @ 180 °F, 10 min; Sparge #3: 2.54 gal sparge @ 180 °F, 10 min; Total Runoff: 7.87 gal

[SIZE=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.2[/SIZE]

 

[Oldsock]

Looks tasty to me as is. That said, you will probably have enough melanoidins from the Vienna/Munich that you could drop the aromatic without losing anything. I might also up the caramunich a few ounces to get some more complex sugars for the microbes to chomp on. To me Flanders Reds always have a lot of crystal/cara character to them.

I am also a big proponent of adding some sour beer dregs to supplement the commercial yeast blends. It will help get more complexity and more sourness than the Roeselare will on its own.

Hope that helps, good luck brewing.

 

[killian]

that recipe looks tasty, I like the vienna as the base I might have to try that.

 

[FireBrewer]

Looks terrible.

Group of women to pillage Hell? That explains a lot.

 

[flyangler18]

Looks terrible.

Group of women to pillage Hell? That explains a lot.

I'm holding your Roesalare hostage.

 

[FireBrewer]

I'm holding your Roesalare hostage.

That's ok, I'll just use the dregs from the bottom of one of your growlers, should come close.

Seriously, looks good. Lookin' forward to it.

 

[flyangler18]

Seriously, looks good. Lookin' forward to it.

Do you have all the grain for your portion? I was going to get my stuff together tonight and we'll mill at your place tomorrow.

 

[flyangler18]

Picked up an extra pack of Roeselare, so I'm brewing now. Hit preboil numbers perfectly, just added my hops and boiling away.

It'll be interesting to see how two side-by-side batches compare in a year. :cross:

 

[flyangler18]

The Saccharomyces in the blend is lifting a gentle krausen right now. It was a bit of a slow starter - but that's what happens when you only pitch the blend sans starter.

Making a starter with these multi-strain/microbe blends isn't wise, I think. You'll throw the ratios all out of whack.

 

[Saccharomyces]

How are you planning on aging this? I was turned off from the idea of doing a Flanders since I thought I had nowhere to store it for aging, but Wild Brews says that they age in oak at up to 90*F. 90*F I can certainly do... My garage holds about that temp all summer long. I'm thinking a 15 gallon food grade barrel, fill it this year to start and then blend 5 gallons into it each year thereafter.

 

[flyangler18]

How are you planning on aging this? I was turned off from the idea of doing a Flanders since I thought I had nowhere to store it for aging, but Wild Brews says that they age in oak at up to 90*F. 90*F I can certainly do... My garage holds about that temp all summer long. I'm thinking a 15 gallon food grade barrel, fill it this year to start and then blend 5 gallons into it each year thereafter.

I'll be bulk aging in glass with an oak peg jammed into the mouth of the carboy. Raj Apte has determined that this allows for micro-oxygenation to give an acetic edge as well as providing carbohydrates for the Brettanomyces to chew on during the 12+ month aging. The krausen hasn't falled yet in primary; when it does, I'll rack over.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Looking forward to pics. I want to attempt a sour beer. maybe I'll try this one.

 

[flyangler18]

Looking forward to pics. I want to attempt a sour beer. maybe I'll try this one.

I'll update with pics as the pellicle develops. Be prepared to follow this thread for more than a year!

 

[nealf]

I'll be brewing a Flanders Red this weekend as well! When are you adding oak?

 

[flyangler18]

I'll be brewing a Flanders Red this weekend as well! When are you adding oak?

As soon as I rack to secondary. The oak will stay there for the duration.

 

[nealf]

Do you mean the oak chips, or the oak peg in the stopper?

 

[flyangler18]

Do you mean the oak chips, or the oak peg in the stopper?

Either or, actually. From my understanding, the chips will provide the oak character as well as carbohydrates for the Brettanomyces to chew. After 18 months, there won't be any chips to speak of.

 

[CBBaron]

Do you mean the oak chips, or the oak peg in the stopper?

I chose Oak cubes for the Flander's Red i did last June. It is still looking ugly but I hope to be able to bottle it in a month or so. I have another pack of Roselare ready to go for a Flanders Red or Lambic and I hope to use the same carboy to keep the bugs isolated.

Craig

 

[nealf]

The krausen fell on my primary ferment and I am sitting at 1.017. I will rack over to secondary as soon as my Roselare blend arrives!

 

[AnOldUR]

I'll update with pics as the pellicle develops. Be prepared to follow this thread for more than a year!

Looking forward to seeing this develope.

How active was the primary? Did you need a blow-off?

 

[flyangler18]

Looking forward to seeing this develope.

How active was the primary? Did you need a blow-off?

Sorry I missed this till now! Primary was actually quite placid, all things considered. It was slow to form a noticeable krausen which lifted to about two inches at the peak of fermentation. The krausen was thick and creamy, like a dollop of foamed milk on a cappucino.

 

[AnOldUR]

I'll be bulk aging in glass with an oak peg jammed into the mouth of the carboy.

Will you be baking the oak before using it? I've seen 375 degrees for two hours. It didn't say, but I'm guessing this is to sanitize the oak. Does it add a different oak character to the final product or is that the intent?

 

[flyangler18]

Will you be baking the oak before using it? I've seen 375 degrees for two hours. It didn't say, but I'm guessing this is to sanitize the oak. Does it add a different oak character to the final product or is that the intent?

Yeah, I toasted the peg roughly to those temps. 'New' oak has a very pungent, overpowering character - so you need to soften it a bit by toasting.

Edit: Oh and I got curious and had to take a quick little sample of Dulle Griet. Oak is subtle but present, and I'm getting a smidge of diacetyl - ostensibly from the Pediococcus in the Roselare blend. Clarity is perfect and I can't wait until the Brett and Lacto start asserting themselves more prominently.

 

[brianholton]

Where did you read that it has Pedio in it?

Yeah, I toasted the peg roughly to those temps. 'New' oak has a very pungent, overpowering character - so you need to soften it a bit by toasting.

Edit: Oh and I got curious and had to take a quick little sample of Dulle Griet. Oak is subtle but present, and I'm getting a smidge of diacetyl - ostensibly from the Pediococcus in the Roselare blend. Clarity is perfect and I can't wait until the Brett and Lacto start asserting themselves more prominently.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

How's this coming along, FA?

 

[brianholton]

Making a starter with these multi-strain/microbe blends isn't wise, I think. You'll throw the ratios all out of whack.

I'm not sure this is true. I bought a propagator pack of the 3278 Lambic blend a couple weeks ago. I doubt Wyeast would offer a lambic blend in a propagator pack if it would mess up the ratios of organisms.

 

[flyangler18]

How's this coming along, FA?

No prominent pellicle yet, but it's starting.....

I'll be sure to take a picture when it gets really gnarly.

Where did you read that it has Pedio in it?

From Brian Perkey himself.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Nice... I posted some pics of my Flanders pellicle elsewhere, I'd post them here too but I don't want to jack your thread.

 

[flyangler18]

Nice... I posted some pics of my Flanders pellicle elsewhere, I'd post them here too but I don't want to jack your thread.

You best step off, fool.

I saw those pics already. Awesome, simply awesome.

 

[Tonedef131]

I am going to brew up 15 gallons of flanders red to fill one of my oak barrels. I am thinking about fermenting 10 gallons of it with a regular euro ale strain and the other 5 with just the roselare, then blending them all into the barrel. Do you think this would get sour enough after 12-18 months in the barrel or should I do two of them with the roselare and one with the clean yeast?